rann
2003-10-17 02:07 pm UTC (link)

Now, see, he had me right up until the "Shut the fuck up". I mean, until then, it ROCKED. Pointed out both sides being silly without going too far in humiliating either, was funny besides. But then he just HAD to add the "Shut the fuck up. Everyone. Seriously." Like the comic wasn't enough, he had to make sure to get in the last word in ADDITION to the comic.
I dunno, maybe that sense of "I get the last word 'cause I write the comic! Nya nya!" was what made me stop reading regularly. Too many comics were just like "Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! ^.^ ... Eh, did you really need to throw in that last bit? ;p"
Heh. Guess what I'm saying is, there's a fine line between snark and wank. Right up until the little postscript, Randy was on ONE side of the line, and after that, he was on the OTHER side of the line.

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	bubba_ray 2003-10-17 02:59 pm UTC (link)
	Maybe he just realised he had a panel to few and filled the space ;) That said it was the first thing on SP I found funny in a while, and I can understand when Randy M. feels pissed about the whole issue. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re:

rann
2003-10-17 03:15 pm UTC (link)

Unfortunately, I think he's contracted WAWCS ("wow-ks"): Webcomic Artists With Cults Syndrome. When a webcomic artist gets a large enough following that there are at least 50 people who will rave, gush, and swoon over absolutely anything they do, no matter what it is, they begin to degrade into conceited, arrogant, play-to-the-fandom pricks. They stop putting any effort into their comics, or if they do put any effort into it, it's only to berate their fans or whatever random subgenre catches their eye, or to inspire controversy. (This last is seen most especially on "new ad banner day".)
Randy's not completely lost to WAWCS yet. He's struggling with it, and taking it day by day. But it's taking its toll on him, plain to see, and I think one day he'll just get tired of the battle and give in to it.
(For other sufferers, see: Piro, Hard, Ishido... er, Ishiro... ... the guy that does Sinfest, Scott Kurtz, and Tycho and Gabe. Some, however, seem to have a natural immunity [see: Pete Abrams].)

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	rowan 2003-10-17 06:16 pm UTC (link)
	GO SLUGGY! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	raisedbyhyenas 2003-10-17 06:47 pm UTC (link)
	Eh, I dumped Sluggy when it became a soap opera. What was that, two, three years ago? ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	rann 2003-10-17 07:12 pm UTC (link)
	It has serious arcs and silly arcs. It's never one or the other for too long, lest it stagnate. You probably just dumped it during a serious arc. Right now, Bun-Bun's plotting on how to get out of being both Santa Clause and the Groundhog. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

iczer6
2003-10-17 07:28 pm UTC (link)

[It's never one or the other for too long, lest it stagnate. You probably just dumped it during a serious arc. Right now, Bun-Bun's plotting on how to get out of being both Santa Clause and the Groundhog.]

I like the balance he has with the strips. He can be dramatic when he wants to, but he rarely lets it overshadow the humor.

I honestly feel Pete's at his funniest when he's the one making up the material. I've often felt his direct parodies, [Muffin the Vampire and Slayer and Torg Potter] we're rather eh though.

Icz

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	Re: rann 2003-10-17 07:31 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, Muffin was really weak. Torg Potter's a bit better, but those two arcs tend to be hit-and-miss... some will be really funny ("Nepotismo!"), and some will just be "Yeah, eh, okay." (Reply to this)(Parent)

rann
2003-10-17 07:41 pm UTC (link)

You know, thinking on it some more, I think Pete probably could have made BOTH parodies, the Buffy one AND the Harry Potter one, work. I think what killed them is the fact that he included mainline characters, thus having to work in THEIR brand of comedy rather than just the comedy inherent in the parody, and the fact that he was restraining himself to a short time for the parodies so that he could get back to the main comic before too many people got too frustrated.
(Plus, I'll admit that both parodies would work better with better art. Pete is NOT the best artist doing a webcomic, by far... the fact that his comic is so great anyway shows that he DOES have great ability with comedy.)

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iczer6
2003-10-17 07:47 pm UTC (link)

[I think what killed them is the fact that he included mainline characters, thus having to work in THEIR brand of comedy rather than just the comedy inherent in the parody, and the fact that he was restraining himself to a short time for the parodies so that he could get back to the main comic before too many people got too frustrated.]

That was one of my main issues with Muffin. It really seemed like a half-assed filler strip, and since he left the main characters in an interesting cliff-hanger I just couldn't find it in me to give a crap about Sam's adventures.

I agree, look at the Kitten strips, those work a lot better because he's using horror movie cliches but the plot is his own.

[Plus, I'll admit that both parodies would work better with better art]

True, my when I read Muffin my first thought was *that's* supposed to be Buffy?

Icz

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	mariagoner 2003-10-19 04:40 am UTC (link)
	>>True, my when I read Muffin my first thought was that's supposed to be Buffy? 'Fo sho. Besides, Buffy is a much sillier name than Muffin. Maybe he should have renamed her Snuffy? And the Kitten horror arc has got to the most hilarious arc Pete's ever done, though the running battles Bun-Bun has with Santa Claws are a close second. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	There are sinfest message boards? karmakaze 2003-10-17 07:00 pm UTC (link)
	Huh. Go fig. I never noticed much fandom, just find the comic occasionally cute. Of course, I am frequently oblivious. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: There are sinfest message boards? rann 2003-10-17 07:07 pm UTC (link)
	I dunno, there were when I was reading it a few years back. He may have taken them down because he was sick of flames/didn't need anyone to tell him he's an art god/was bored, I have no clue. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: There are sinfest message boards? iris 2003-10-18 12:08 am UTC (link)
	Your icon...uh...dude. XD (Reply to this)(Parent)

	R U INSLUTING PENNY ARCAEDE?!?!?!? ravey 2003-10-17 09:23 pm UTC (link)
	OMG HOW DARE U DIS TYCHO AND GABE THEY ARE SO HOTT AND THEIR COMIC IS JUST TO FUNNY FOR ALL U LOSERS TO GET, THEY R LIkE T.S. ELIOT U HAVE TO DO UR RESEARCH TO GET IT BUT ITS TOTALY WORTH IT IN THE END step off the PA, biznatches. don't make me break out the cardboard tube. (Reply to this)(Parent)

dawnswalker
2003-10-18 02:03 pm UTC (link)

Agreed! This is why I stopped reading most webcomics.

I'm not saying that they should totally shut themselves away from the opinions of their fans, but there's a difference between doing it for your own enjoyment/fufillment and doing it for zombie-riffic "Yes Man" droolings and/or the meagre revenue from PayPal buttons, online stores, print-edition volumes(WTF?!), and who knows what else.

At least the damn newspaper "funnies" are honest about their motives for trotting out low-quality merchandise.

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	iczer6 2003-10-17 06:22 pm UTC (link)
	[... Eh, did you really need to throw in that last bit? ;p"] Well, yes. Remember that Randy writes the comic and he also runs the board. Like it or not what he says in the S*P community, goes. And I don't think it was more of a 'Nya nya I got last word', I think it's more of a 'I'm sick and tired of the same old argument that cause mass flaming on my LJ'. Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re:

rann
2003-10-17 06:25 pm UTC (link)

Well, he should kinda recognize his own fault, in that, then, because it's not exactly like he's been "fair and balanced" towards furries in the comics. n.n;; If he's sick of the arguments, good enough, easiest way to make the flames about furries on his forum go away is to stop making fun of them in his comic.
(And, yes yes, I know it's his comic and he should put what he wants in it. But if he puts something in the comic and it causes problems on the board, he should be prepared to deal with it in some manner other than "Shut the fuck up!"... which is, incidentally, another symptom of WAWCS.)

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iczer6
2003-10-17 06:40 pm UTC (link)

(And, yes yes, I know it's his comic and he should put what he wants in it. But if he puts something in the comic and it causes problems on the board, he should be prepared to deal with it in some manner other than "Shut the fuck up!"... which is, incidentally, another symptom of WAWCS.)

True, but in his defense this has been going on for a while so I can understand why he got so pissy about it. This isn't the first time this has happened.

And I'm still pretty new to S*P but I don't recall furries being a frequent traget. I remember three strips with mention of furries in them, and only one was actually focused on the furry fandom, the others were just mentions made by the other characters.

I think what annoys him, [and me] is that these debates rage on even when there's no mention of furries in the comic.

Icz

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rann
2003-10-17 06:49 pm UTC (link)

I think what annoys him, [and me] is that these debates rage on even when there's no mention of furries in the comic.

Like I said, I don't read regularly anymore. I think the latest reference to them was an implication that if Randy didn't buy a particular hand-puppet from a store, a furry would most certainly buy it up and use it as a masturbation sock. Awhile back, PeeJee was apparently scarred for life at learning of the very existence of furries. (So, yeah, you could say they haven't put exactly the most positive spin on furry in the comic. c.c; But I never got bent out of shape about it. It's S*P, it was just kinda SUPPOSED to be offensive. ['Til it stopped, in my opinion at least, being silly-offensive and started being bitter-offensive.])
But yeah, I do think Randy takes a little of the responsibility for it on himself. I'm not saying he needs to throw himself on the mercy of the readers, or go back and delete the particular comics and replace them with apologies. I'm just saying that he's not exactly blameless in it.
But most of my comments in the first place were geared more towards the fact that the comic, on its own, MADE THE POINT. It got it across that yes, both sides were being silly, and that the argument was stupid. The "Now shut the fuck up" was unnecessary. I mean, yeah, you can say that it was, but that assumes that his readers are too stupid to get the point without him spelling it out for him. And maybe that's so, if you judge by the flame wars, but it seems to be a pretty dangerous assumption to get into for an artist. Look at what television studios and movie studios and advertising agencies put out when their first assumption is "The audience is a bunch of idiots."

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	rann 2003-10-17 06:50 pm UTC (link)
	implication that if Randy Er, excuse me, Davan. It's a little difficult to keep them separate when he sometimes goes to great lengths to make it seem as if the only thing separating them is the name. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iczer6 2003-10-17 06:56 pm UTC (link)
	[I think the latest reference to them was an implication that if Randy didn't buy a particular hand-puppet from a store, a furry would most certainly buy it up and use it as a masturbation sock] Here's a link to the comic in question: http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp09242003.html, no mention of furries but he does make fun of cripples! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: rann 2003-10-17 07:04 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, I must've misremembered... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rann 2003-10-17 07:06 pm UTC (link)
	I will say, though, that Aubrey got exactly what she deserved. LORD I've come to despise that girl! The way her every appearance in the comic eventually made me want to grab her and shake her 'til her brain turned purple and swelled up out her ears MAY have contributed somewhat to my decision to stop reading the comic. n.n;;; (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	iczer6 2003-10-17 07:19 pm UTC (link)
	Very true, the only character I can say I actually LIKE in S*P would have to be PeeJee because she at least seems to feel things like 'shame' and 'compassion'. Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re:

rann
2003-10-17 07:30 pm UTC (link)

Very occasionally. I guess I still hold some vague shreds of "like" for PeeJee, but Randy's just shoved the "Cute Asian girls can get away with anything, including felonious assault for no other reason than that the target was a man, and it's okay because they're cute Asian girls" thing down the readers' throats too often for me to swallow it anymore.
Basically, it all boils down to this, and after so many repetitions, it kinda stopped being funny. c.c

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	rann 2003-10-17 07:35 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, and grabs the Dota icon and does several things to it that probably make it difficult to hold onto that "shame" thing, what little Dota had to begin with (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	iczer6 2003-10-17 07:40 pm UTC (link)
	Glad you like. I wish I could remember where I got that one... Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: rann 2003-10-17 07:42 pm UTC (link)
	smokes cigarette That's okay, she'll have a couple more just like her popping out in a few months. Might have red hair, tho. ^.^ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	lots42 2003-10-17 09:32 pm UTC (link)
	Exactly. Some SomePos readers know they can get good wankage and troll mightily for furry anger (Reply to this)(Parent)

	lots42 2003-10-17 09:30 pm UTC (link)
	It -is- his journal that within all the wankery is going on. They just wouldn't shut the hell up. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sagralisse 2003-10-17 03:07 pm UTC (link)
	Ahh. That was great! :D (Reply to this)

	snacky 2003-10-17 08:49 pm UTC (link)
	SP = teh funneh! And once again, the wank is in the comments HERE! Thank god. It's so tiring to find it elesewhere. g* (Reply to this)(Thread)

	sagralisse 2003-10-17 08:56 pm UTC (link)
	snerk (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	snacky 2003-10-17 09:04 pm UTC (link)
	Well, it's tough to be this fat and lazy, I'll tell you. You got any doritos? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sagralisse 2003-10-17 10:12 pm UTC (link)
	::hides doritos:: Um, nope. All out. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	daijinryuu 2003-10-18 10:48 pm UTC (link)
	Let's go steal some from the black people. (Reply to this)(Parent)

On webcomics

eris
2003-10-18 01:44 am UTC (link)

When I read an online comic, I never venture into the forums/journals of said comic, and rarely do I even read the author's notes. I simply read the comic, hopefully laugh and/or chuckle, and go on to the next one. That said, I only judge a webcomic on the actual comic, not the potential wankery of the author. (For example, apparently people claim Piro is a real Prima Donna, but I could care less because I find Megatokyo funny and well drawn.)

Makes webcomics a world better.

(Unless, of course, you're looking for wank, and in that case, it's kinda dull.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: On webcomics

zannechaos
2003-10-18 02:00 am UTC (link)

::nodnod:: Same here. I knew about the wank from the reports here, and I saw the comic when I went to go read it for the day.

I don't read

som_pos, unless I'm really bored. I don't have it on my friendlist for that reason, nor any other online comic communities (w00t_comic not withstanding, since I've been reading that since before Chaobell actually started drawing it herself, and it was posted in a journal first before she had a website.)

The only comic where I actually bother to read the notes is Schlock Mercenary, because the notes about the comics are always hilarious bullshit science/tech/alien history notes, and his open letters are usually just as amusing.

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	sepiamagpie 2003-10-18 10:48 am UTC (link)
	Random-ish. Schlock Mercenary rocks my socks. Carry on. (Reply to this)(Parent)