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	mpoetess 2003-11-06 02:19 am UTC (link)
	Oh man. please describe the wank? Don't make me sub again. The ambient Spikehate, it burns! (Reply to this)(Thread)

	mpoetess 2003-11-06 02:36 am UTC (link)
	Ah, too late, curiosity got the better of me... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rowan 2003-11-06 03:51 am UTC (link)
	yay Full Metal Alchemist. Um, that is all. slinks away from the wank (Reply to this)

	Um... seventy_three 2003-11-06 06:39 am UTC (link)
	I don't suppose you could give us just a leetle bit more to work with, huh? (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Um...

mpoetess
2003-11-06 05:40 pm UTC (link)

Since I've already had my eyes burned out by looking, lemme give it a shot. With links to posts, which you do have to subscribe to view, unfortunately, but hopefully context will work for those who value their corneas. Quoting freely because it's a membership-unrestricted mailing list.

This is the same list from this wank, wherein various listmembers ranted that the recent (fandomwide, het, slash, gen) Xander Awards in BtVS fandom must have been rigged because the listowner's gen/het Xander-the-soldier-of-fortune adventure series lost to a slash story for best characterisation. In all fairness, a lesser but vocal number of listmembers jumped in and pointed out where the wanky folks were out of line, and the listowner himself... tried to stay neutral, it looks like, though there was a bit of "Ha, I have 1000 people on my personal mailing list for that story, so I don't care about their awards, anyway."

This time, a poster named Bulldogmo posts a Xander/Spike slash story that honestly isn't great in terms of characterisation -- but only one poster objected to it on those grounds, and that's not where the wank lies. It's also appropriately labeled, and acknowledged as a first fic. Whether it was done with full knowledge of how m/m slash intolerant the list is overall, with intent to troll, I don't know, but I suspect not, since the fic was x-posted to multiple subject-appropriate lists. This list, based on its Yahoo description (it appears to have no FAQ), says it welcomes Xander fiction as long as he's not evil, and makes no mention of slash not being acceptable. Until it's actually posted.

It receives such reactions as "Here's feedback: Did you not get the memo that slash stories featuring a gay Xander are NOT WELCOME at the XanderZone?" Well, no, because there is no such memo. Unless the poster means "Did you not read through all our previous wankiness on the subject weeks and months back, instead of just reading the group description to decide what's appropriate to post, like a normal person?" There's also fairly neutral warnings like Not to mention the fact you have a Spike and Xander implied
relationship in Xanderzone....walk away, avoid eye contact and don't make any sudden movements, this lot are bound to rip you apart" and the far more blunt Get rid of it. Now."

Author protests -- not very rudely at all, imho, that if it's really such a big deal to them, they should post the no-slash "rule" in their group description. There are some "you're right, we need an FAQ" replies, but no one, including the listowner, ever addresses this with an answer to why there *isn't* one, as far as I can see.

Mostly there are just continued comments that the poster should have asked first, should have known, should go post on other more appropriate lists, that slash is OOC, that slash is not hated and they're not homophobic because (TBQ's Law, yay!) I have a gay uncle, its the idea of Xander being with Spike or Angel. Simply neither vampire has a big fanbase here."
(Spike and Angel hating/bashing is also pretty much the unwritten order of the day. It's understood; you simply can't like Xander and admire any other male character (aside from Giles, who's much older, possibly a father figure, and therefore not in perceived competition with him) on the show, because they're all assholes beside Xander's shining heroism.)

{the wank goes on...}

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Um...

mpoetess
2003-11-06 05:48 pm UTC (link)

{more}

There's some minor defense of the Original Poster, more wanking about slash being OOC by nature, then we have the "Only on the internet" level of ridiculousness reached with I find it interesting that you preach tolerance when you yourself are intolerant of the intolerant. The fact is that people have a right to dislike the concept of homosexuality. It doesn't make us homophobic or feeble-minded. People have a right to feel how they wish to feel, even if its intolerance." Um, isn't being intolerant of homosexuality one of the basic definitions of homophobia? If they'd pulled out the "not liking slash doesn't make me homophobic" argument, there'd be wiggle-room, but disliking the concept of homosexuality?

Rapid digression down the path of no return when gay listmember responds to that post with "the concept of homosexuality. i kinda like that. personally i dont dislike the concept of hetrosexuality, but i dont think id
like to try it myself."

Same "you're being intolerant to the intolerant" poster responds with "Not at all, but if we are to pick bones here, heterosexuality is the most natural. Of course I can't really get any more into this argument without bringing up religion, and I don't want to open up that can of worms, so I'll leave off here." He does, others don't, it rolls rapidly downhill to through OT and into "gay is natural" "no it's not" wank.

Listowner steps in, moderates everyone to get the OT-ness to stop, but his method for doing so is to say "I'll return us to our normally scheduled Chaos in short order... all people have to do in order to speed the process is... stop posting about the Slash bit. I will handle any censure needed now or in the future. This group is
nonXanderSlash and will remain so... so everybody needs to relax."

A few parting volleys when the list comes off moderation, but even the thoroughly reasonable ones are met with "Do I have to put this list back on moderation? Shut up, shut up, shut up" from listowner. Who still hasn't changed the list description.

~~End~~ hibernation of wank.

[obviously, slasher and shipper of the pairing the story happens to be in, here, so feel free to take anything coming from me with salt to taste... Not a regular member of the list, don't know the flamed author, listowner, or any of the quoted members personally.]

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	Re: Um... thebratqueen 2003-11-06 06:57 pm UTC (link)
	Oo! I get another nickel! ;) And is there a rule covering the "you're intolerant of my intolerance" defense? Because if not there should be, and I say it should be named after MP. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Um... smo 2003-11-06 07:15 pm UTC (link)
	Done and done. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Um...

iamtheenemy
2003-11-07 06:47 am UTC (link)

you're being intolerant to the intolerant

Oh, for fuck's sake. I've never seen that particular bullshit excuse before, which is good, considering I enjoy my relative sanity. Fucking idiots.

I wonder if the KKK uses that line with the NAACP, and if so, why hasn't it worked yet?

"President Roosevelt, there's this guy, Adolf something, he's killing millions of Jewish people, should we try to stop it?"

"No, no. We need to be tolerant of this Adolf character's intolerance, otherwise we're no better than him."

Steph

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	Re: Um... bohica 2003-11-10 07:01 pm UTC (link)
	No Hitler!! LOL (Reply to this)(Parent)

	smo 2003-11-06 07:01 am UTC (link)
	Two Slayers going at it? Woohoo! Gourry and Zelgadis in the house! Whoops, wrong fandom. In other news, I love that you used Vulcan's original Greek name instead of the knockoff Roman one. Also, I'm drunk. (Reply to this)