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mary ([info]massromantic) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2003-11-07 14:00:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:energetic

Vidding wank
Oy. This one is a bit headache-inducing to get through, but it's totally worth it for the massive amounts of cluelessness from the wanker.

Ashinae posts an alert that a vidder named Desiree/Nigellus stole clips from a number of her vids. She reposts a remarkably reasonable e-mail that she sent to the thief, and the thief's utterly clueless response *denying* the charge. Ashinae's able to provide an exact list of the stolen edits, though, so it's not a very credible claim. Elke Tanzer has a complete list of the vidders stolen from and their responses here.

Three other vidders respond and talk about other instances of clip theft by this person. Then the thief herself shows up, and that's when the comedy kicks in.

She claims a friend of hers gave her the clips and she had *no* idea they were stolen. That'd be a nice story, if it didn't directly contradict what she said in her original reply to Ashinae. She also says she'll give credit to the original vidders now, so she doesn't see what the *problem* is. (Though she hasn't even done this yet, that I can see.) Silly actual vidders, valuing their own work! And it's okay that she stole from one of the vidders, because he's her *friend!* They totally e-mailed each other once or twice. Can't imagine why he'd be upset.

She then says that people are being UNFAIR and MEAN to her. And I can see why! Those people expect her to, like, make a public apology to those she's wronged. That'd be such a hassle. She already apologizied, badly and defensively, in the journal that had caught her in the act! Hasn't she suffered enough? And she did SOME of the work herself, so she should keep getting credit for "her" vids. Oh, wait, no. She can't edit the clips out now, though she apparently could edit them *into* the vid in the first place.

This, in particular, is an utter gem of sad fannish behavior: "Hope you aren't mad at me anymore, because that would be really too sad to hear. We all have one only passion: Vidding! Right?" This is especially funny since the vids are apparently *still up.* And this, too: "I will do it later. I promise! Are we done now?" Well, you sure are, honey.



(Post a new comment)


(Anonymous)
2003-11-07 10:23 pm UTC (link)
OK, colour me stupid, but what exactly is "vidding?"

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]senor_pinata
2003-11-07 10:30 pm UTC (link)
Making music videos from tv/movies/etc. Also known as AMVs (anime music videos) in other areas.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]smo
2003-11-07 10:26 pm UTC (link)
I notice Desire/Nigellus's LJ is now friends-only. Fancy that.

(Reply to this)


[info]sagralisse
2003-11-07 10:55 pm UTC (link)
Oh I <3 vidders so very much!

::warms hands over the flames::

Does anyone have marshmellows?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]snacky
2003-11-07 11:50 pm UTC (link)
I agree - vidder wank is a nice change from HP. Lies, theft, fingerpointing and self-righteous indignation and more, all at once.

And I have graham crackers and chocolate for S'mores!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-07 11:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]prettyamyrose, 2003-11-07 11:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2003-11-08 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-08 12:40 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-08 06:47 am UTC

alquama_alaswad
2003-11-08 12:23 am UTC (link)
Oh, *this* is surely some wank of the greater class o_0

Just really sad, that it does hurt a lot of people, but nigellus *is* em .... remarkable :p

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sagralisse
2003-11-08 12:41 am UTC (link)
I was thinking "special" myself.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]bunny
2003-11-08 03:22 am UTC (link)
Well, one has to appreciate the irony that they are fighting over material, they illegally obtained, copied and re-edited.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]mpoetess
2003-11-08 03:37 am UTC (link)
Eh. I never really have seen the irony, because it's a false parallel. We're in fandom; we know the copyright issues we're bending and breaking. Your icon and mine are both based on promotional pics that we don't have the legal right to be using in this manner. It's understood amoin fan communities that we use these things in nonprofit ways, for enjoyment, and that for the most part, the legal owners don't come after us.

The vidding argument's gone round in circles forever, but I can't see it as any different from the plagiarism of fan fiction, which has the same copyright issues. There's a difference between using the source material -- characters, canon storylines, audio and video siurce, promotional images -- to create a work of fan art, and taking someone else's work of fan art and claiming it as one's own creation. Fanwriters don't claim that they created the characters; fan vidders don't claim that they shot the original footage or recorded the songs. Both types usually include disclaimers specifically saying they *didn't* create the original, as if it weren't obvious by itself. Plagiarists whether of the written or audiovisual sort, *do* claim that they did the creative work that was actually done by someone else.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cthulhuswhore, 2003-11-08 03:57 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2003-11-08 03:51 am UTC (link)
No. NO! *thwap* Someone always has to say this! Back to Fandom Vidding 101 with you! :)

Heh. No, serious, everyone who participates in creating fandom works is ...um... "borrowing"... to some degree. This is not only acknowledged by all of fandom, but encouraged, and it includes fanfic, artworks, manips, etc., the list goes on and on.

Let's face it, without stealing from the Powers That Be, all we'd have is a handfull of fanboys vociferously arguing the design schematics of the Enterprise on Usenet.

But while it's acknowledged in fandom that we exist by stealing from our betters, a good way to become infamous in any community is to commit thievery against your PEERS. Example: to take something another fan has spent time on (like fanfiction), do a search and replace for the character names, slap your own name on it and enter it for awards, which is what we have here in a nutshell.






(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bunny, 2003-11-08 02:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-08 06:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bunny, 2003-11-08 07:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-08 07:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bunny, 2003-11-08 09:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-09 02:33 am UTC

[info]lannamichaels
2003-11-08 04:11 am UTC (link)
Except that most bought the DVDs, bought the rippers, and bought the vidding software.

How is this "illegally obtained"?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bunny, 2003-11-08 03:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-08 04:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-08 06:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]virago, 2003-11-10 04:49 pm UTC
Respect for fan artwork == good thing
[info]elke_tanzer
2003-11-08 04:20 am UTC (link)
Oh, Bunny, you really don't want to go there. I've got entire memories categories archiving various debates about it. That dead horse has been beaten to a pulp so many times... pureed pony ain't pretty.

Vidding is derivative artwork, but it is artwork, just like fanfiction is. Would you toss off a comment like this if the issue was written plagiarism?

Gah. I am not going to wank in fandom_wank. Leaving now...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Respect for fan artwork == good thing - [info]luna, 2003-11-10 05:42 pm UTC
Re: Respect for fan artwork == good thing - [info]elke_tanzer, 2003-11-10 07:26 pm UTC
One more for the road
[info]crickets
2003-11-08 06:55 am UTC (link)
I thought The Brat Queen also summed it up pretty well. Shutting up now. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]moonjaguar
2003-11-08 07:22 am UTC (link)
"You thief! You stole my stuff! Of course I used this footage without permission of the original owners but who cares! Fushing feefs! Die!"

I will never get it myself. To me it's all derivations.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-08 07:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-11-08 07:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dana, 2003-11-09 05:45 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-11 02:06 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2003-11-08 07:02 am UTC (link)
Um, Desire/Nigellus is 16.

q

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]massromantic
2003-11-08 07:06 am UTC (link)
Well, yes, but I'm not really linking to any of *her* journal posts. Just comments she made in the journal of a person that's over 18, which I thought was okay for posting?

(Reply to this)(Parent)

and your point is???
[info]mrbimble
2003-11-08 07:10 am UTC (link)
it's OK for her to take someone else's (or in this case, lots of someones elses) work, put her name on them, put them into contests and them claim them as her own?

While Fandom_Wank has a rule about not trolling and prodding the teenies, in my opinion - and I'm hardly the expert or the queen here - her age doesn't excuse her behavior.

Since she's repeatedly "apologized" for getting caught with her hand in the cookie jar, promised to take down the offending vids - and hasn't - and is now trotting out the "but some of that work is MIIIIINE excuse, I think the ONLY way she's going to understand that what she did was wrong is to disucss this, cross fandom, until such time as she comprehends the seriousness of her action.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: and your point is??? - [info]elke_tanzer, 2003-11-08 08:17 am UTC

[info]moonjaguar
2003-11-08 07:20 am UTC (link)
This again?
I might as well get publicly offended over some screencaps I made being used for that lame ass This Is Sex meme of September. "You stole my screencaps!" Of course they didn't, I stole the damn things from the DVD in the first place.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2003-11-08 07:38 am UTC (link)
Please meet the dead horse (http://www.livejournal.com/users/thebratqueen/244181.html).

It is a poor, sad, tired, and DEAD thing. Resquiat in pacem.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-11-08 07:42 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-08 07:45 am UTC
HEE! (*meep*) - [info]crickets, 2003-11-08 08:28 am UTC
Re: HEE! (*meep*) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-11-09 01:05 am UTC
Re: HEE! (*meep*) - [info]jerry_ds_girl, 2003-11-09 05:35 pm UTC
Re: HEE! (*meep*) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-11-09 06:52 pm UTC
Wildly OT - [info]pradaloz, 2003-11-10 05:19 am UTC
Re: Wildly OT - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-11-12 08:40 pm UTC

[info]del_p
2003-11-08 11:25 am UTC (link)
Perhaps if you talked to someone who spent literally hours composing, cutting and creating a vid from screen capped or ripped material you might have a bit more sympathy.

Or, perhaps, if you had a very time consuming hobby which was posted to the internet to *Share* not to be *Stolen* and then that hobby was credited to someone else and *awarded* you'd understand the problem.

It's not about who owns the original dvd or cap. It's about who owns the creative process.

And it's no different than writing a fan fiction based on TPM, HL, HP, POTC, LOTR or what have you. Sure, someone made up the world and the actors gave us visuals. This is why disclaim that we're intending to infringe upon that. It's considered fair use under the law, I believe. However, having someone else claim YOUR fanfiction as THEIR work and receiving an award or accolade for it? That's still theft. It's theft of that particular idea, that particular string of words that came from you?

Sorry, I don't believe for a moment that you wouldn't be hopping mad if something of the similar happened to you.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-08 04:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]del_p, 2003-11-08 05:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-11-09 01:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bunny, 2003-11-08 07:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]massromantic, 2003-11-08 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]del_p, 2003-11-08 10:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]del_p, 2003-11-08 10:07 pm UTC
I'm a fushing feef, I admit it. - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-11-09 01:36 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-09 02:27 am UTC
Re: - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-11-09 02:38 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-09 02:52 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-09 06:54 am UTC
Re: - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-11-09 01:02 am UTC
and the violins swell - (Anonymous), 2003-11-09 02:35 am UTC
Re: and the violins swell - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-11-09 02:40 am UTC
Re: and the violins swell - (Anonymous), 2003-11-09 02:50 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-09 02:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]del_p, 2003-11-09 04:11 pm UTC
Having just spent the better part of twenty minutes
[info]htrismegistus
2003-11-08 09:52 am UTC (link)
...utterly transfixed by the depths of this wanker's idiocy, I must say:

People like Desiree/Nigellus were not created by the same god(s?) as I was.

That will be all.

(Reply to this)


[info]delfeus
2003-11-08 05:25 pm UTC (link)
Oh! I saw Ashinae complaining about a Desiree but I didn't realize it was Nigellus. I thought this situation was cleared when the kid took some videos down, but she apparently didn't take all after all. She was really upset that no one believes her, and since she's a kid [16] I thought to give her a chance to fix it... she actually said to me that of course she will use only her own material from now on. This was almost a month ago, and now she's apparently made a video that's using only material from Ashinae's videos. Does the idiotic child really think that if she waits few weeks no one will notice when she steals again? *headdesk*

(Reply to this)


[info]cthulhuswhore
2003-11-09 02:49 am UTC (link)
In response to [info]moonjaguar's comment that people shouldn't be so uptight because "This is not like Iraq, world peace, feeding the hungry, or guaranteeing medical care for everyone, or saving open space from getting eaten by strip malls and little-boxes-on-the-wetlands subdivisions.

Shouldn't there be a rule that every time someone drags out that we should be thinking of the starving kiddies in China instead of this wankery they lose the argument?

But then, that would mean I am thinking of something less important than the rainforest! sob

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]moonjaguar
2003-11-09 06:21 am UTC (link)
Ooh, you mean I'll have my own law to invoke? Groove!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-09 07:38 am UTC
*wank update
(Anonymous)
2003-11-10 07:16 pm UTC (link)
For all those for whom 68 wanks are just not enough in a thread;

-Fanflix.com has revoked Desiree's award and removed *all* of "her" pilfered vids from the fanflix site.

-Desiree continues to deny she has done anything wrong and still flaunts the "award" from fanflix on her front page. The header on her vids page also still declares "here you may view videos made by me".

-She's removed her mini comment tag board from the front page of her website, so you can't comment to her about the vids. Don't bother with the guestbook either. Anything that doesn't say OMG11!!!!1 I <3 YR VIDS11!LOL11!! she deletes immediately.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: *wank update - [info]virago, 2003-11-10 10:09 pm UTC
Re: *wank update - [info]smo, 2003-11-11 04:56 am UTC

 
   
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