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just another stormcrow ([info]sagralisse) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2003-11-12 15:35:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Tolkienistas!
My eyes are brimming with tears of joy. For months I've read wanks that involved slashers and fangirls, BNFs and tinhats, and I've always had this feeling that MY core fandom was being left out. I just knew that we old, staid Tolkien fans could be wanky! I mean, who calls Peter Jackson the Butcher of Middle Earth? Who calls movie!Aragorn weak and indecisive? Who bitches that Frodo dropped his sword at Weathertop? We do! I just can't show you because it's all lost and buried on boards so poorly designed that they'll make your brain bleed.

All that potential, and I've never been able to bring home the wank until now.

Peter Jackson cuts Saruman's big dramatic scenes out of ROTK. He talks about it in an email to one of the aicn guys here. Chris Lee was in a bad mood on one of those Morning shows as reported by the lovely blujbird here. His fans are also in a very bad mood here, and here.

A typical guestbook entry:
Dear Mr. Lee,

My wife and I were shocked, saddened and perplexed upon hearing the news that your Saruman scenes are not to be shown in the cinematic version of the Return of the King. I understand that there was no "Scouring of the Shire" either. It is Saruman's fall and his reappearance as Sharkey which provides such a shocking twist in the tale. To leave out all the Saruman scenes in Return of the King is a disservice to both the memory of J.R.R. Tolkein and to yourself as one of our nation's finest actors.


Another fan writes: Any ounce of respect that I have had for Jackson and his team is gone.

There's more from the forums. One fan joined up to add this:
I only want to say that I think the decision to cut Saruman from the Return of the King is beyond understanding. I believe it totally negates Peter Jackson's claims that he is attempting to be true to Tolkien. Originally I was of the opinion that the Tolkien estate was wrong not to endorse Peter Jackson's movies of the Lord of the Rings, but I now see that they were farsighted and protecting Tolkien's books from bastardisation. Finally I just want to add that I thought Christopher Lee's comments showed a great deal of dignity, good luck to him!

Ouch, that's going to hurt the guy whose fans typically call themselves the Bastards. (After the name of his official fan site "The Bastards Have Landed")

Apparently Alison didn't read the aicn article before weighing in:
OK, I've slept since the last email I sent on this subject, have even tried to understand exactly where the "studio" is coming from, but nope, just can't seem to get on their wavelength.

Anyway - I am sure 7 minutes could be found from other parts of the movie, that would not be so vital to the overall story and in its place the 7 minutes of Saruman could be take it's rightful place.

But, it seems that Peter Jackson et al know better than Tolkien...... we shall see in the final reviews.

[[insert dramatic music here]]

Now from what I understood, the scene in question is a final confrontation with Saruman and Wormtongue. Even if Pete put it back in it still wouldn't be the same as the books. This means that the overall level of whining and moaning among the purists will be about the same with or without the Saruman scenes.

Thank you Pete, I <3 you.


(Post a new comment)


(Anonymous)
2003-11-13 12:48 am UTC (link)
No, it's everything to do with Saruman. He doesn't appear in the third movie at all - it's to be assumed that he died when the Ents attacked his tower in the second.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sagralisse
2003-11-13 12:56 am UTC (link)
You're right! That's what the aicn article said.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]shoiryu
2003-11-13 12:55 am UTC (link)
I just love the pompous phrasing, really.

Originally I was of the opinion that the Tolkien estate was wrong not to endorse Peter Jackson's movies of the Lord of the Rings, but I now see that they were farsighted and protecting Tolkien's books from bastardisation.

My WORD, old boy.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]mariagoner
2003-11-13 08:26 pm UTC (link)
Can we get a hearty "Pip, pip, cheerio!" over here?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]smo, 2003-11-13 10:57 pm UTC

[info]arien
2003-11-13 12:57 am UTC (link)
It's so very, very beautiful. :D

The h4rdc0r3 LOTR fans haven't been wanky in a long time, ever since...Peter Jackson said the stuff with Saruman was going to be in ROTK. Personally, I haven't got a clue why they're all upset -- I've always thought the Isengard scenes were dull, even though I like Saruman and Wormtongue. There's just a lot of story to cover and only three hours to do it. It's not surprising that Isengard would be the first bit to go.

*reflects on happy memories of XenArwen and fan rants about how movies degrade Tolkien's sweeping vision*

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]trismegistus
2003-11-13 12:59 am UTC (link)
XenArwen has got to be the best abbreviated name since ever.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sagralisse
2003-11-13 01:09 am UTC (link)
I participated in the "Frodo and Aragorn Slandered" thread in January 2002. It ran for TWO MONTHS and went to 300+ posts. The OP finally lost some credibilty when he admitted that his main objection was that Peter Jackson wasn't Catholic, and that the One True Interpretation was accessible only to other Catholics... but he was a hella good online debater.

I remember leaving the argument in a huff when, after finding out that I consider myself a Buddhist, he basically said I couldn't possibly understand the story. Then he started babbling about Chinese history, which... like I was born in Alabama, dude. That has nothing to do with me.

Anyway, good times. Very good times.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]arien, 2003-11-13 01:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]photosinensis, 2003-11-13 02:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 02:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]arien, 2003-11-13 05:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 06:05 am UTC
(no subject) - onion, 2003-11-13 12:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 03:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2003-11-13 05:17 pm UTC

wolfie_thu
2003-11-13 01:07 am UTC (link)
There's some related wank on a few Grima/Brad Dourif fansites I visit. He's been completely cut out from the last movie- it's even been removed from his list of credits on IMDB.com- so there's been a bit of bitching from his fans. All six of them.

While I was saddened at first at the loss of Wormtongue-ness in the movie, I consoled my self by thinking that maybe this means Grima won't die in PJ's version, but will instead spend the rest of his days having lots and lots of buttsex:
http://picserv.beyond-reality.nl/getpicture.php?id=468410&check=3b73d

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sagralisse
2003-11-13 01:11 am UTC (link)
Does your link go to the fansites or the buttsex?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - wolfie_thu, 2003-11-13 01:33 am UTC

[info]arien
2003-11-13 01:17 am UTC (link)
And what makes you think that Grima would be the one to play catcher? His name is Wormtongue, after all...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - wolfie_thu, 2003-11-13 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 02:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jumble, 2003-11-13 02:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 02:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jumble, 2003-11-13 03:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rowan, 2003-11-13 06:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-11-13 04:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 04:21 am UTC
Snark - my favorite ice cream flavor!! - (Anonymous), 2003-11-15 06:27 am UTC
Re: Snark - my favorite ice cream flavor!! - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-15 05:26 pm UTC

[info]dawnswalker
2003-11-13 01:09 am UTC (link)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the scenes were cut, doesn't that imply that they were indeed filmed? So wouldn't the Saruman footage make its way into the inevitable "Extended Version" of RoTK in some form anyway?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 01:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]arien, 2003-11-13 01:15 am UTC

[info]limyaael
2003-11-13 01:43 am UTC (link)
It is Saruman's fall and his reappearance as Sharkey which provides such a shocking twist in the tale.

Uh...it is? You know, I could have sworn it was what happened with the Ring instead. At least, that was the more shocking twist to me when I read the books the first time.

Oh, I haven't been understanding the truth all this time. *cries bitterly*

(Reply to this)

Where can I donate to the "buy the crazy fans tin hats" foundation?
[info]queenbead
2003-11-13 02:10 am UTC (link)
oh blessed LotR movie wank, may it live on in our cold cold hearts. I love the books as much as the next fantasy geek, but dude, take a moment and realize that it's just.a.book.

Favorite lines:

"To leave out all the Saruman scenes in Return of the King is a disservice to both the memory of J.R.R. Tolkein and to yourself as one of our nation's finest actors."

so that's why he's been in so many crappy b-rated movies..

"farsighted and protecting Tolkien's books from bastardisation"

or maybe they were just worried that someone would actually edit out the stuff not integral to the plot...

"it seems that Peter Jackson et al know better than Tolkien"

yes, cause we all know that PJ went through so much time and trouble just to prove to the world that he's so much better than Tolkien....riiiiight..

Watching people freak out about movie adaptation of books is one of my favorite past times and just when LotR ends, we can have the opportunity for more HP movie wank. *sigh* such splooge worth whining.

~S

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Where can I donate to the "buy the crazy fans tin hats" foundation? - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 02:47 am UTC
Re: Where can I donate to the "buy the crazy fans tin hats" foundation? - [info]covermyeyes, 2003-11-13 06:50 am UTC
Re: Where can I donate to the "buy the crazy fans tin hats" foundation? - snowball, 2003-11-13 08:25 am UTC
Re: Where can I donate to the "buy the crazy fans tin hats" foundation? - [info]dawnswalker, 2003-11-13 08:43 am UTC
Re: Where can I donate to the "buy the crazy fans tin hats" foundation? - [info]musette, 2003-11-13 09:35 am UTC

[info]bunny
2003-11-13 02:36 am UTC (link)
beyond understanding ... totally negates Peter Jackson's claims that he is attempting to be true to Tolkien ... bastardisation

Oh ickle Saruman got cut out of the movie, oh aren't we all just sad, sad, sad? Shouldn't we have cried already when we heard that Bombadil got cut? Or that the important (because metaphorical) Scouring of the Shire got the short end of the stick. No! It's Jackson leaving us to assume that Saruman has the same allergy as the Wicked Witch of the West to water that turns a perfectly good movie into the thing from Hell.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 02:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bunny, 2003-11-13 03:06 am UTC
Are you local? - [info]loafing_oaf, 2003-11-13 06:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dana, 2003-11-15 03:25 am UTC

[info]siegfriedwanks
2003-11-13 03:37 am UTC (link)
As long as Jackson doesn't cut out Grima's tongue... we can slash. No sweat.

(Reply to this)

Congrats!
(Anonymous)
2003-11-13 03:59 am UTC (link)
lol...have seen you participate in other wanks here with abandon so am happy for you!..soooo...could you send/get me a code?..Am waaaaay over 18...

harry123489@hotmail.com

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Congrats! - (Anonymous), 2003-11-13 04:07 am UTC
Re: Congrats! - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 04:14 am UTC
Re: Congrats! - [info]raisedbyhyenas, 2003-11-13 08:22 pm UTC
*sigh* - (Anonymous), 2003-11-14 01:29 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2003-11-13 04:32 am UTC (link)
P.S. Also, I offer my HP-Fandom!poetry as sacrifice...

http://www.livejournal.com/users/fandomlovedocs/690.html

Note: my definition of "fed up" has yet to be defined...XD...c'mon, it's HP!...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Thanks! - (Anonymous), 2003-11-13 05:05 am UTC
Re: Thanks! - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 05:58 am UTC

[info]palabradot
2003-11-13 04:48 am UTC (link)
I'm slightly disappointed myself, as the whole Scouring of the Shire thing was sorta meant to drive home the point that the war DID reach the Shire, which all the hobbits thought was relatively safe, given its distance from everything.

However, I'd read he'd filmed it but cut it from the theatrical release for the sake of time. Which is fine - I'll catch it when I buy the DVD.

Jackson can't make everyone happy - if he tried, he'd STILL be filming. :)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]arien, 2003-11-13 05:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 05:55 am UTC
I wish that bothered me more - - (Anonymous), 2003-11-13 06:19 am UTC
Re: I wish that bothered me more - - [info]ruaha56, 2003-11-13 04:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rowan, 2003-11-13 06:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 06:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]palabradot, 2003-11-14 02:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]panthea, 2003-11-14 07:46 am UTC
Oh god - [info]ruaha56, 2003-11-14 03:14 pm UTC
Re: Oh god - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-14 04:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-14 04:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seventy_three, 2003-11-14 06:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-14 08:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seventy_three, 2003-11-14 10:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-14 11:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seventy_three, 2003-11-15 12:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-15 12:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seventy_three, 2003-11-15 01:20 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2003-11-13 07:01 am UTC (link)
I just feel bad for Christopher Lee, because he 1) is older than God, 2) wanted to be in a LOTR movie all his life, and 3) even met Tolkien, blah blah BNF of All Time blee. And how does he find out he's not in ROTK? Secondhand. From Harry Knowles. That's gotta hurt.

Cleolinda on LJ

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 03:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ahiru, 2003-11-13 05:49 pm UTC

[info]iamtheenemy
2003-11-13 09:47 am UTC (link)
I must say I'm a bit disappointed. Not because we won't get to see anymore Saruman, though I think Lee did a great job in the first two movies. The problem I'm having is that I won't get to see Theoden verbally bitchslap Saruman, which has always been my favorite part of the books (I know, odd, since there is so much else to choose from). Thought I'd get the chance in ROTK when it was cut out of TTT, but alas. I'll live though.

Steph

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rowan, 2003-11-13 06:42 pm UTC

[info]phosfate
2003-11-13 05:21 pm UTC (link)
But what about Tom Bombadil? WHERE IS THE LOVE FOR TOM, PEOPLE?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ahiru, 2003-11-13 05:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]onetrickpony, 2003-11-13 06:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-13 06:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]katemonkey, 2003-11-14 12:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-14 01:56 am UTC

[info]dejla
2003-11-13 08:14 pm UTC (link)
I'll admit I haven't listened or read the commentary on FOTR. I'm more interested in the movie as a story, so I suppose I'd better make myself listen to it.

I don't remember when it was I began to feel as if I understood why the Scouring of the Shire. I like it now. It doesn't feel anti-climactic to me, because I think I see the point.

(Reply to this)


[info]teratologist
2003-11-14 06:01 am UTC (link)
The only thing that bothers me about all this is that I'm afraid it may become a working model for film making to go and take out several nearly-key bits and save them for the mega-ultra-plus-extended DVD, thus getting the fanboys' money twice; once at the theater and once at the DVD shop. Since I'm terminally broke, if this becomes habitual I'll be seeing movies on the small screen forever, and that would make me cranky.

But so long as this remains the exception rather than the rule, it's not the end of the world.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-14 04:31 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2003-11-16 01:16 pm UTC (link)
I may get a bit burned for posting this, but what the heck...

While some of the reactions to cutting Saruman from the movie are indeed more than a bit wanky, I don't see why criticising this move per se should be considered wanky. I've seen a few posts in fandom_wank that seem to treat any criticism of PJ's movies as wanky. I don't really understand this: are these movies, unlike every other single film ever made, actually *above* criticism? Personally, I consider the second movie - as a movie - to be a mess. Many other people, of course, disagree, but I don't think that makes me a pseudo-intellectual wanker ^_^

And please note that I did not come here to bitch or whine (now *that* would be wanky) - I am merely curious.

And I'm not hiding in anonimity either - I simply don't have a JournalFen account. I'm annamilton on LiveJournal, in case anyone is interested.

----Anna

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2003-11-16 06:53 pm UTC
Looking for Saruman?
(Anonymous)
2003-12-07 06:50 am UTC (link)
Just to tell you all, Peter Jackson has announced that the Saruman and all of his cut scenes are going to be in the EXTENDED EDITION! I hope that lifts your hearts a little bit because I was furious when I found out that he wasn't in the final movie.

(Reply to this)


 
   
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