Home
    - Create Journal
    - Update
    - Download

LiveJournal
    - News
    - Paid Accounts
    - Contributors

Customize
    - Customize Journal
    - Create Style
    - Edit Style

Find Users
    - Random!
    - By Region
    - By Interest
    - Search

Edit ...
    - Personal Info &
      Settings
    - Your Friends
    - Old Entries
    - Your Pictures
    - Your Password

Need Help?
    - Lost Password?
    - Freq. Asked
      Questions
    - Support Area

Katsue (katsue) wrote in fandom_wank,
@ 2003-12-30 00:23:00

Muraki wank
If there's one thing almost guaranteed to produce ~~heated debate~~ flames and wank in Yami no Matsuei fandom, it's Muraki's rape of 13yr old Hisoka. On this occasion, Lost_Lorelei asks in the lj Yaoi community why Muraki is so popular despite being a child rapist, and Rainbow_Gossip comes up with a defence of Muraki that is little short of sporkworthy, and contains the memorable line: "Also, rape is a popular form of yaoi in Japan... and 13 is legal age there, so it wasn't pedophilia". Wank and WTF? moments ensue...

The above section contains the bulk of the wank, but for the whole entry, go here.

My first wank, please go easy on me!

(Post a new comment)

	mariagoner 2003-12-30 03:14 am UTC (link)
	...Hmm? What? A bit of background, please? I'm so lost, it's not even funny... (Reply to this)(Thread)

starza
2003-12-30 03:25 am UTC (link)

Summary:

In canon, Muraki rapes a 13 year old boy.

On Yaoi community: Innocent question, why do people like Muraki, even though he raped a 13 year old boy? Logical question to ask, since rape DOES squick some people, but probably not the right place to ask it.

Along comes R_G, defender of justice for Muraki! She says as Hisoka was above the consent age, it wasn't rape, even though he said 'stop' like several times. And that the OP should stop bitching and whining, when the OP didn't mean any offense or even say that Muraki sucks major ass.

Then we have other people defending Muraki's actions of 'evil', when in canon, he's the villian, he's supposed to be evil.

Hence, mini-wank ensures. Could've been much worse though.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

*hugs Muraki* -

croik, 2003-12-30 03:37 am UTC

Re: *hugs Muraki* -

starza, 2003-12-30 03:39 am UTC

Re: *hugs Muraki* -

greekhoop, 2003-12-30 06:55 am UTC

delfeus, 2003-12-30 04:14 pm UTC

greekhoop, 2003-12-30 08:17 pm UTC

Re: -

delfeus, 2003-12-31 01:07 am UTC

greekhoop, 2003-12-31 07:09 am UTC

Re: *hugs Muraki* -

sarajayechan, 2003-12-30 10:10 pm UTC

Re: *hugs Muraki* -

virago, 2003-12-30 08:46 am UTC

mariagoner, 2003-12-30 04:01 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-12-30 06:13 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-12-30 09:25 pm UTC

*eyeroll* - ataniell93, 2003-12-30 09:30 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2003-12-30 03:35 am UTC (link)

Yami no Matsuei: Anime about angels of death (shinigami) investigating weird deaths or non-deaths (such as a person who should be dead but isn't). Shinigami are themselves persons who died unnatural deaths and can't move on the the next world.

Tsuzuki: ~~Bipolar~~ hero of Yami no Matsuei. More angsty and brooding than Angel one minute, on a sugar high to rival a fangirl's the next.

Muraki: Psychopat murderer doll collecting silver-haired doctor obsessed with the main hero of Yami. An all around basket case. That's why fangirls love'im.

Hizoka: Whiny, angsty, brooding, loner token femmy blond bish that falls for the hero ~~and needs to die a gruesome death. Again.~~

Muraki rapes and curses Hisoka when he's 13 and then proceeds to watch him die a slow, 3 year long death. Hisoka comes back as a shinigami for revenge though he doesn't know against who at first. When he finally remembers (and even before), Muraki enjoys twisting the knife in the wound.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

mariagoner, 2003-12-30 04:04 am UTC

Me again - (Anonymous), 2003-12-30 09:03 am UTC

Gah, edit. - (Anonymous), 2003-12-30 09:05 am UTC

delfeus, 2003-12-30 04:20 pm UTC

smo, 2003-12-31 04:36 am UTC

Re: Me again - (Anonymous), 2004-01-03 10:46 pm UTC

kijikun, 2003-12-30 04:19 am UTC

katsue, 2003-12-30 04:34 am UTC

nekoneko, 2003-12-30 05:20 am UTC

starza, 2003-12-30 05:25 am UTC

nekoneko, 2003-12-30 05:28 am UTC

shoiryu, 2003-12-30 05:30 am UTC

redmenace, 2003-12-30 05:42 am UTC

redmenace, 2003-12-30 05:44 am UTC

katsue, 2003-12-30 05:49 am UTC

Re: -

redmenace, 2003-12-30 07:33 pm UTC

shoiryu, 2003-12-30 05:57 am UTC

diamonde, 2003-12-30 03:20 pm UTC

maureenlycaon, 2003-12-31 04:55 am UTC

amakath, 2003-12-31 08:23 pm UTC

Re: -

diamonde, 2004-01-02 01:42 am UTC

Re: -

amakath, 2004-01-02 03:10 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-12-31 06:43 am UTC

	anu 2003-12-30 03:42 am UTC (link)
	Welcome to f_w. Am new too. gropes in greeting blinks innocently at those who stare at this PDA What? I'm from LJ. We're wierder over there some days. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	katsue 2003-12-30 05:30 am UTC (link)
	Hi there! ^_^ gropes in return (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2003-12-30 04:14 am UTC (link)
	That's what I'm saying. I love Muraki because he does those things (raped a 13 year old boy). Without that, he's not Muraki. That made me laugh. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	mariagoner 2003-12-30 01:51 pm UTC (link)
	That made me cry. I mean... some people. Honestly. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

amasaglajax, 2003-12-31 05:36 am UTC

mariagoner, 2004-01-01 03:23 am UTC

shoiryu
2003-12-30 05:26 am UTC (link)

*waves flag of Hisoka loooove*

Uh, yeah, I have nothing to say. Really I don't. Except that hey, wow, maya_slash went off on some scary tangent too.

"But when disliking a character one USUALLY doesn't go and bash him on her/his first appearance on a comminity. That's not polite, to put it mildly. Do try to be more open minded and not to pass judgement so easily."

Whaaaaaat? Jeez. I mean, I love Hisoka and all, but that doesn't mean I'm going to attack that anon up there who sorta dissed him. People are entitled to opinions- and besides, lost_lorelai didn't even diss Muraki! At all! @_@ I am confuuuuused.

Excuse me, I think Hisoka's bullshit detector is going off again.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	katsue 2003-12-30 05:46 am UTC (link)
	That was the thing - Lost Lorelei was just asking for people's thoughts on why they liked Muraki - I would hardly call what she said "character bashing". ^^;; (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kijikun, 2003-12-30 07:15 am UTC

	iczer6 2003-12-30 05:49 am UTC (link)
	Not much of a Muraki fan myself, but I do get tired of the whole 'well character X is a complete hottie' somehow excusing said characters actions. (Reply to this)

virago
2003-12-30 08:43 am UTC (link)

Okay, busting out the Tatsumi icon for this one, even though I do have a Muraki icon that's just lovely.

Ahem.

HE'S THE FUCKING VILLAIN, YOU NIMRODS! If you managed to get through the 13-episode series, in which he kills about 3 people on-screen and another half-dozen offscreen, rapes Hisoka, nearly kills him a few years later, carves up Tsuzuki (not that it does much), turns an innocent schoolgirl into a centipede monster, and does that whole cackling old-school die-foolish-mortals bit with the flames and the severed head in a jar and all that, and STILL FAILED TO REALIZE that this is not somebody to take home to Mom, you really haven't been paying attention.

In other words:

YES. WE KNOW HE'S EVIL. See, as a frequent fan of villains in various fandoms, this just pisses me off. I can think a character is interesting or entertaining without wanting to, you know, model my life after him/her. Matter of fact, what does it say about them for assuming that every fan thinks a chara's actions are all wonderful? Can we get a little separation here, please?

ARGH.

See, interesting backstory, moral ambiguity that gives the viewer something to puzzle over, now-you-die-Mr.-Bond attitude, hell, just some good old-fashioned Disney-villain old-school posturing - these are interesting, but not good the way truth-justice-and-cute-puppies are good. It doesn't mean that I think it's good to go out and mindfuck people. It's fiction. Were these characters real I would not condone their actions, but it's just a fucking story.

Okay. Rant over. Whew.

and Oriya's not a whore; he's a madam. there's a difference. *sulkity sulk*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	smo 2003-12-30 08:47 am UTC (link)
	Wouldn't pimp be more accurate than madam? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

virago, 2003-12-30 09:25 am UTC

smo, 2003-12-31 01:02 am UTC

virago, 2003-12-31 01:48 am UTC

smo, 2003-12-31 03:52 am UTC

virago, 2003-12-31 05:48 am UTC

smo, 2003-12-31 10:17 am UTC

virago, 2003-12-31 04:19 pm UTC

smo, 2003-12-31 09:21 pm UTC

virago, 2003-12-31 09:42 pm UTC

smo, 2003-12-31 09:53 pm UTC

shoiryu, 2003-12-31 06:21 am UTC

smo, 2003-12-31 09:49 am UTC

katsue, 2003-12-30 04:22 pm UTC

smo, 2003-12-31 12:56 am UTC

	cairea 2003-12-30 10:49 pm UTC (link)
	and Oriya's not a whore; he's a madam. there's a difference. sulkity sulk I had to put the comm down and walk away when I saw that section of the thread. joins in sulking Though, admittedly, the image of what Oriya would DO to someone who mistook him for one of his girls is amusing. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

virago, 2003-12-31 06:37 am UTC

	setsunastar 2003-12-31 06:40 pm UTC (link)
	WORD. (Reply to this)(Parent)

delfeus
2003-12-30 04:09 pm UTC (link)

I'm ok with rape as a kink in fiction because, jebus, I have some weird kinks myself. But rape squicks me (in fiction and in real life) and I'm not the only one who feels that way.

I must be stupid but I just don't get this. She's okay with rape but it still squicks her? Is that how I'm supposed to read this?

Oh, and I love Muraki [icon!], he's a lovely twisted fuck. I'm just sad Hisoka [the kid he raped before] stopped him from taking advantage of Tsuzuki... [Muraki's obsession, and Hisoka's something.] I need to watch the series again. ..

I'm also really happy we got again some anime wank, the HP wank is getting so damn boring. Maybe someone should also report the Prince of Tennis / Tennis no Ohjisama wank that said that Tezuka is gay because he's so serious... maybe I should go there to point out that in the ending credits Tezuka is reading Gravitation, a.k.a. shounen-ai... of course that doesn't prove anything, but is still funny. :D

(Reply to this)(Thread)

katsue
2003-12-30 04:33 pm UTC (link)

"I'm ok with rape as a kink in fiction because, jebus, I have some weird kinks myself. But rape squicks me (in fiction and in real life) and I'm not the only one who feels that way."

I must be stupid but I just don't get this. She's okay with rape but it still squicks her? Is that how I'm supposed to read this?

Mmm, yes, my brain went kinda "frazzle, fry, pop" when I read that, too! And Maya_Slash's reply:

"Rape squicks me too for that matter. Except when the raped one in is Muraki. :P :D"

had me going "WTF???", too.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

delfeus, 2003-12-30 04:49 pm UTC

virago, 2003-12-30 06:35 pm UTC

siegfriedwanks, 2004-01-05 05:13 am UTC

virago
2003-12-30 06:32 pm UTC (link)

My money's on "the poster has no clue what 'squick' actually means." Actually it's clear they have no effing clue what "squick" means if they apply it to real-life rape, because IMO that's in another domain entirely. /wankmode

But as for the quote, maybe they meant "I don't like it (and look, neither do all these nameless people!) but I'm not one to talk about odd kinks, so I'm not against other people reading it."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: -

delfeus, 2003-12-31 01:13 am UTC

virago, 2003-12-31 01:50 am UTC

	split 2003-12-30 11:00 pm UTC (link)
	ROFL! But you know, the gravitaiton book can actually be the one about Einstein. XD (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: -

delfeus, 2003-12-31 01:06 am UTC

(no subject) - pushyuke, 2003-12-30 11:01 pm UTC

Re: -

delfeus, 2003-12-31 01:05 am UTC

sarajayechan, 2003-12-31 02:28 am UTC

(no subject) - pushyuke, 2003-12-31 03:04 am UTC

smo, 2003-12-31 04:42 am UTC

Re: -

delfeus, 2003-12-31 01:00 pm UTC

smo, 2003-12-31 09:22 pm UTC

Re: -

delfeus, 2004-01-01 01:40 pm UTC

katsue, 2004-01-01 03:21 pm UTC

smo, 2004-01-01 10:08 pm UTC

katsue, 2004-01-01 03:16 pm UTC

smo, 2004-01-01 10:06 pm UTC

ruaki, 2003-12-31 05:52 pm UTC

Re: -

delfeus, 2003-12-31 06:14 pm UTC

ruaki, 2003-12-31 06:47 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2003-12-30 08:00 pm UTC (link)

GAWD, get this wank away from my sensei...!

While a Muraki-type person in real life would disgust me to no end, is it really *that* demented to like a *fictional* anime-character?

He still one of the best anime-villans. Deal.

And those fangirls *surely* never ever read yaoi doujinshi where the uke gets raped all over dunno how many times, right? :roll eyes: Because its liek SKVIKY!!1

(Reply to this)

	sarajayechan 2003-12-30 10:09 pm UTC (link)
	rolls eyes Rainbow's at it again, I see. :P (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-12-31 06:35 am UTC

sarajayechan, 2003-12-31 10:27 pm UTC

bloodysakura, 2003-12-31 08:14 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-12-31 09:22 am UTC

rinoared, 2003-12-31 09:32 am UTC

	(Anonymous) 2003-12-31 12:02 am UTC (link)
	He's an amazing character. Muraki is this unattainable darkness. 'Sides, he's funny. My friend RPs him and he easily seduced my Tsuzuki. Mmhmm. And then it makes one wonder if it's canon Muraki she's getting defensive over, or her friend's portrayal of Muraki. (Reply to this)

	amasaglajax 2003-12-31 05:39 am UTC (link)
	I love YnM. I love it to ickle pieces. That's all. ::RAPES EVERYONE IN SIGHT:: (Reply to this)(Thread)

mariagoner, 2004-01-01 03:26 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2003-12-31 06:49 am UTC (link)

Eh, while I've already said this exact thing regarding this same wank, I'll say it again. Not that it's terribly amusing or the most intellegent thing to say, but ~~that I like the sound of my own words~~ I like sharing my opinion around.
*sigh*.
Villains have almost always been my favorite characters since I watched Star Wars somewhere around the 4th grade. But if there's one thing I've learned, it's this - most people *DON'T* like villains. And after a while, I learned to stop trying to convince people of how neat they were. I'm always really amused to find a villain fan somewhere, because most people are so horrified of liking a character like that, that they never even consider it.
I can understand why a character like Muraki would repulse most people - if he *doesn't* bother one in some way, I'd be a little disturbed. But he is still my favorite YamiMatsu character. But I'm sure as heck not gonna try to persuade anyone to coming around to thinking in my manner. It's stupid to try to make people like villains - one is usually about as successful as if one tries to make people like a Final Fantasy heroine.
Muraki is interesting because he is evil. He is bad. He is NOT a nice, fluffy-bunny type person. He does have sparklies in some scenes, yes, and he does act quite genial, but that doesn't keep one from being quite nasty. He is eeeeevil. And rape is rape is rape is rape. I can justify the reading of it to myself because it is fictional, but one cannot justify it in real life, nor can one justify that a fictional character has a right to commit rape just because it is in fiction - because he is fictional as well. (Does that make sense...?)
I just hope that eventually those villain fans who want to force their <3 of evil upon other people learn eventually that it's just not ever gonna work. --;;

Ah, and this wank is making me wish I had a journalfen account - it would have been a good time to use my Muraki icon.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

smo, 2003-12-31 10:25 am UTC

virago, 2003-12-31 11:36 pm UTC

bloodysakura
2003-12-31 08:28 am UTC (link)

All I gotta say is that some people get WAY too into their anime characters. Every story needs a villian, and Muraki happens to be this story's big evil. They all have their reasons for what they do, but that doesn't justify the actions of a rapist or killer.

Instead of sticking up for Muraki (which is impossible, as this wank goes to show), why not love him/loathe him for being a wonderful villian? Trying to pretend that he's not a rapist is just silly.

Glad to see YnM alive and wanking.

*goes back to lurkerdom*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

*puts on her cheerleading skirt* -

rinoared, 2003-12-31 09:30 am UTC

Re: *puts on her cheerleading skirt* -

smo, 2003-12-31 10:32 am UTC

Re: *puts on her cheerleading skirt* -

setsunastar, 2003-12-31 06:46 pm UTC

Re: *puts on her cheerleading skirt* -

starza, 2003-12-31 07:06 pm UTC

Re: *puts on her cheerleading skirt* -

smo, 2003-12-31 09:17 pm UTC

Re: *puts on her cheerleading skirt* -

virago, 2003-12-31 11:39 pm UTC

Oh, the smell of YnM wank in the morning...

desperateangel
2003-12-31 12:44 pm UTC (link)

Personally, the day Muraki starts being nice to small fluffy animals is the day I'm going to ~~send death-threaths to Matsushita~~ stop reading Yami.

Actually I tend to forget about the whole rape thing, since I don't much care about Hisoka (because ~~he always shows up when Muraki is *this close* to get it on with Tsuzuki~~ just doesn't have what it takes for me).
I rather focus on the other aspects of Muraki's evilness - which, we have to say, he does a damn good job of. It's not easy to find a villian who is evil, sexy, charming, *and* funny at the same time.

There are "evil" characters whose actions can be justified to a certain extent, but Muraki is just.not.one.of.them. (Even so, the "13 is legal, it's not pedophilia" one is just LAME.)

Face it kids, he's 100% total badass. And I love it. :D

(Reply to this)(Thread)

delfeus, 2003-12-31 06:18 pm UTC

Privacy Policy - COPPA
Legal Disclaimer - Site Map