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Majinkarp ([info]majinkarp) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2004-01-13 15:48:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:anime/manga, baleetion, elitism, taking it too seriously

Manga wank
Here we have a self-proclaimed manga "elitest" who's a fan of the original, untranslated versions of manga. Only she doesn't so much declare her love for Japanese manga as she does her intense dislike for American translations of manga and the people who read them.

It's an old argument, but a classic: manga sucks now because it's popular, and you're a lazy illiterate schlub if you can't read Japanese. The wankage is really just in the original post, as the rebuttals are more or less reasonable and courteous. To be fair, the original poster makes some valid points, but then goes and blows her credibility by alienating virtually all English-speaking manga fans.

Heh, I also like how she thinks that people who "right your japanese authors and singers names the 'american' way" are being unfair to her.

I guess the rest of us weren't all cool and "special" or "punk" enough to discover these things in advance the way she did. Yeah, like something instantly loses its value the second it gets popular. Personally, I'm ecstatic to see Shounen Jump for sale in the supermarket, because I remember how hard it was to get any manga I could understand a few years back.

Update: The original entry is gone, but I saved it for posterity.
Page 1 of 2
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(Post a new comment)


[info]smo
2004-01-13 10:59 pm UTC (link)
$3 original

Exsqueeze me? Where did she find untranslated, imported manga for $3 - Planet 1982?

And who's this "we," anyway, to whom manga supposedly "belongs" as a fandom? Once I'm done busting my ass to get my MFA, I might take a Japanese class - if I can afford it, given that I'll have to, oh, I dunno, make a living as a writer at some point. Until then, my ass is buying the $9.99 TokyoPop translations, thankyaverrmuch.

P.S. I don't remember who pointed this out before, but she's making this whole rant against commercial translated manga in English. Waiter, I'll have a scoop of irony ice cream on my just desserts pie, if you don't mind.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-13 11:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-13 11:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-13 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pirotess, 2004-01-14 01:18 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 01:34 am UTC
... - [info]pirotess, 2004-01-14 01:50 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:18 am UTC
... - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 03:18 am UTC
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(no subject) - [info]astrael, 2004-01-14 08:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]delfeus, 2004-01-14 12:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 01:26 am UTC
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... - [info]delfeus, 2004-01-15 09:07 am UTC
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Demon Diary - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 02:34 am UTC
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... - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 04:34 pm UTC
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... - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 11:48 pm UTC
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... - [info]delfeus, 2004-01-18 09:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schuldig, 2004-01-14 12:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kyuuketsukirui, 2004-01-14 07:48 am UTC

[info]shoiryu
2004-01-13 11:02 pm UTC (link)
It's sad... I feel like I belonged to a special club, and now everyone is allowed in and it's not fun anymore.

Oooooh, poor widdle BABY!

Seriously, cry me a river, bitch.

I've got people on my Flist with this attitude and it makes me nuts. Jesus Christ, can you stop being elitist for one second to realize that this is a good thing? It means that more and more people are showing an interest in anime and manga. It's popularity has surged in the last few years, and I for one and very happy about it.

I've been a fan of, for example, Rurouni Kenshin for years, since before it was even being considered on the English market. I've got fansubs that are copies of copies of copies, so warped you can barely read what's going on, and I've got several volumes of the original manga.

The manga's only just now getting released in English, and guess what? I've already bought it. I'm not doing a "disservice" to Nobuhiro Watsuki, or supporting TEH EVAL TRANSLATORS, as one person I know would say, I just want to read the damn manga in my own language for once. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Another series that I love, Tokyo Babylon, is getting translated soon. My flist went into an absolute uproar. "It's going to be ruined! They're going to take out all the subtext! Relationships and names will be changed! Newbies won't know what the REAL story is!"

Dude, even if that's true, so what? If someone who picks up a translated volume of TB ends up caring enough about the characters and story, they'll do their damn research and find out what they can, the same way I did. As an active member of that fandom I am ALWAYS happy to set a newbie on the right track, in a friendly, helpful manner.

Sorry for the rant, but I am SO sick of this attitude.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-13 11:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-13 11:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-13 11:38 pm UTC
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(no subject) - [info]calluna, 2004-01-13 11:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]majinkarp, 2004-01-14 02:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rogue, 2004-01-14 02:31 am UTC
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(no subject) - [info]dante_the_mouse, 2004-01-14 04:06 am UTC
... - [info]liarliar, 2004-01-14 01:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 03:06 am UTC
BTW - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 03:07 am UTC
Re: BTW - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:20 am UTC
Re: BTW - [info]cleolinda, 2004-01-14 05:58 am UTC
Re: BTW - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 04:09 pm UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:20 pm UTC
... - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 08:33 pm UTC
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... - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 11:45 pm UTC
Re: BTW - [info]cairea, 2004-01-14 10:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eris, 2004-01-14 04:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2004-01-13 11:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-13 11:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-13 11:32 pm UTC
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(no subject) - [info]htrismegistus, 2004-01-14 06:46 am UTC
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(no subject) - [info]virago, 2004-01-13 11:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]byagghametta, 2004-01-14 01:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]virago, 2004-01-14 05:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]majinkarp, 2004-01-14 01:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 02:38 am UTC
... - [info]majinkarp, 2004-01-14 03:23 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:24 am UTC
... - [info]virago, 2004-01-14 05:49 am UTC
... - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 04:02 pm UTC
WORD. - [info]aruru, 2004-01-14 03:57 am UTC
... - [info]chaoscheebs, 2004-01-14 08:46 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:22 pm UTC
... - [info]chaoscheebs, 2004-01-15 02:29 am UTC
... - [info]majinkarp, 2004-01-15 02:34 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-15 04:59 pm UTC
... - [info]chaoscheebs, 2004-01-15 09:51 pm UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-15 09:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]canisetlupus, 2004-01-14 12:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jyuu, 2004-01-14 02:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]byagghametta, 2004-01-14 03:20 am UTC
... - [info]aruru, 2004-01-14 03:51 am UTC
... - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 04:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 08:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-01-14 01:42 am UTC
Fake - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 02:39 am UTC
Re: Fake - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:26 am UTC
... - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 04:37 pm UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]majinkarp, 2004-01-14 01:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2004-01-14 04:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dawnswalker, 2004-01-14 04:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2004-01-14 09:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-14 05:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 08:24 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-14 09:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 08:45 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-14 09:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarajayechan, 2004-01-14 07:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cairea, 2004-01-14 10:22 pm UTC

[info]zee
2004-01-13 11:18 pm UTC (link)
Heh. This is the same girl who, a few years back, got into some serious wank with a number of people (myself included) because she would attack Japanese people online and claim that they were only pretending to be Japanese because, obviously, she knows more about Japanese language and culture than they do. Pretentious, much?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-13 11:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zee, 2004-01-13 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-13 11:29 pm UTC
... - [info]raisedhackles, 2004-01-14 01:29 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 01:36 am UTC
... - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2004-01-14 09:39 pm UTC
... - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2004-01-14 09:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]feenix, 2004-01-14 01:34 am UTC
... - [info]zee, 2004-01-14 02:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]majinkarp, 2004-01-14 02:02 am UTC

[info]dawnswalker
2004-01-13 11:18 pm UTC (link)
now many people read them in English, toss them aside, and move on...

Manga are no longer a reward for the intellectual among us... :( It's sad... I feel like I belonged to a special club, and now everyone is allowed in and it's not fun anymore.

Because when I think intellectual, I think comic books. Especially comic books about people with superpowers who are ninja, people with superpowers who are pirates, people with superpowers who solve puzzles, and people with superpowers who are ambigously gay.

I imagine that translators have their work cut out for them with manga. Not only are they working with two almost completely different languages, they have to make the translated words properly fit into the pre-drawn speech bubbles, while still making it legible and getting across the same basic information that the Japanese version did, all while making it "read" naturally. Sure, some companies do a crappy job at this, but when you think about it, it's not something to be taken lightly.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2004-01-13 11:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zee, 2004-01-13 11:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-13 11:29 pm UTC
... - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-13 11:42 pm UTC
... - [info]zee, 2004-01-13 11:46 pm UTC
... - [info]dawnswalker, 2004-01-14 03:19 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-13 11:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-13 11:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-13 11:35 pm UTC
... - [info]eljuno, 2004-01-13 11:38 pm UTC
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(no subject) - muzivitch, 2004-01-14 12:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]delfeus, 2004-01-14 01:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]meril, 2004-01-14 01:29 am UTC
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(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-01-14 01:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mael, 2004-01-14 01:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dante_the_mouse, 2004-01-14 04:29 am UTC
... - [info]majinkarp, 2004-01-14 04:38 am UTC
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... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 04:40 pm UTC
... - [info]dante_the_mouse, 2004-01-14 08:35 am UTC
... - [info]majinkarp, 2004-01-14 08:46 am UTC
... - [info]liarliar, 2004-01-14 02:11 pm UTC
... - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 04:23 pm UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bishounenhuntrs, 2004-01-15 02:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jyuu, 2004-01-14 01:56 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-14 04:47 am UTC
... - [info]jyuu, 2004-01-14 08:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruaki, 2004-01-14 04:49 am UTC
... - [info]jyuu, 2004-01-14 09:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 03:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]liarliar, 2004-01-14 02:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2004-01-14 09:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dawnswalker, 2004-01-15 02:40 am UTC

[info]virago
2004-01-13 11:37 pm UTC (link)
It might be the caffeine talking but FUCK YEAH, I love these people!!

< manga wanker mode >
Those dirty people, speaking their English. I mean, who speaks English anyway? Losers, that's who!
< / manga wanker mode >

>>Manga used to be a special treat from those of us who sought them out and bothered to learn the language in order to unlock their beautiful mystery... >>

I'm sorry, I was thinking exactly how to phrase the ridiculousness of this and of losing interest because your fandom is no longer SPESHUL - but I think the pathetic nature of basing your self-esteem around your fandom is self-punishment enough. Not to sound like a cliched asshole (even though I am), but I kind of have to feel sorry for them. They can't just enjoy the fucking movie/comic/whatever like the entertainment it is; it has to be built into their sense of self. "I am Somebody because I got this import comic!" Do they have nothing else that's unique about them? It's kind of sad.

Note to self, revive old piss-off sig for anime boards as an icon.

In conclusion, MMM-WAH STUPID WANKER who is, btw, ranting in English kthx. No doubt you feel "cheapened" by the very idea.

(Reply to this)

Pardon me, I must go HARING OFF IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.
[info]mooncalf
2004-01-13 11:45 pm UTC (link)
Well, if she wants to be so fucking elitist, why doesn't she start collecting doujinshi instead of manga? Tiny privately-printed books with print runs as low as one hundred! Untranslated--who in the hell would license doujinshi and translate them officially? Sometimes with handwritten kanji and seldom (if ever) with furigana! Oh, there's lots to be wanky and elitist about with doujinshi!

... sigh. Pardon me for this wholly O/T tangent; it's just something that's been on my mind recently. The two prevalent attitudes amongst doujinshi collectors seem to be 'I am more l337 and J4p4n3s3 than j00' and 'OMG BISHIES OMG YAOI OMG' and they both honk me the hell off.

But, shit, that whole 'special club' attitude annoys me. Like the people who get annoyed when their favorite struggling bands finally get a record deal because now they've 'sold out'. Hello! Fandom is not a footrace! You cannot win at fandom! There are no trophies!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Pardon me, I must go HARING OFF IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. - [info]musette, 2004-01-14 12:14 am UTC
Re: Pardon me, I must go HARING OFF IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. - [info]raisedhackles, 2004-01-14 01:08 am UTC
that needs an icon! - [info]meril, 2004-01-14 01:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sewingmyfish, 2004-01-14 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]byagghametta, 2004-01-14 03:17 am UTC
Re: - [info]sewingmyfish, 2004-01-14 03:21 am UTC
... - [info]byagghametta, 2004-01-14 03:26 am UTC
... - [info]sewingmyfish, 2004-01-14 03:28 am UTC
... - [info]byagghametta, 2004-01-14 04:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bitca, 2004-01-14 04:39 pm UTC
Welcome to the Tangent Corps - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 02:47 am UTC
Re: Welcome to the Tangent Corps - [info]mooncalf, 2004-01-14 05:30 am UTC
Re: Welcome to the Tangent Corps - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 04:24 pm UTC
Doujinshi? *JUMPS INTO THE OT POOL* - [info]aruru, 2004-01-14 04:41 am UTC
Re: Doujinshi? *JUMPS INTO THE OT POOL* - [info]pirotess, 2004-01-14 04:49 am UTC
Re: Doujinshi? *JUMPS INTO THE OT POOL* - [info]aruru, 2004-01-14 05:14 am UTC
Re: Doujinshi? *JUMPS INTO THE OT POOL* - [info]ruaki, 2004-01-14 05:04 am UTC
Er... - [info]ruaki, 2004-01-14 05:07 am UTC
Re: Pardon me, I must go HARING OFF IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. - [info]iczer6, 2004-01-14 05:09 am UTC
Re: Pardon me, I must go HARING OFF IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 08:51 am UTC
Re: Pardon me, I must go HARING OFF IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. - [info]rebeccasama, 2004-01-14 10:25 am UTC
Re: Pardon me, I must go HARING OFF IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. - [info]bishounenhuntrs, 2004-01-15 02:55 pm UTC

[info]electricchick
2004-01-13 11:45 pm UTC (link)
I also dislike it for another more selfish/elitest reason, and I'm going to mention it just to be honest with myself that I feel this way: Manga used to be a special treat from those of us who sought them out and bothered to learn the language in order to unlock their beautiful mystery...

Right up until there, she had a point. But... bitch, please! That's the first time I've heard anyone say that manga was for the intellectuals.

(Reply to this)


[info]psycheantillus
2004-01-14 12:33 am UTC (link)
I wonder if she's ever ran into this girl. They might get along.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kannaophelia, 2004-01-14 04:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bishounenhuntrs, 2004-01-15 03:08 pm UTC
I read F_W posts like this and think...
[info]schuldig
2004-01-14 12:48 am UTC (link)
...how long before I'm wanked? ^_^

I agree with her first point, and I'm constantly amazed by how much more translated manga costs. Especially in the UK, when it's imported from the US. Far cheaper to just import it from Japan.

I agree with her second point about dodgy translations when they change all the references to Japanese culture to Western references. Hello, footnotes? Excel Saga on DVD managed it excellently, and that seemed close to impossible.

Third point...Eugh...DIE DIE DIE. I would do ANYTHING for people to read more of my two favourite manga. They are Weiß Side B and Loveless. Read them, write fics about them, do fanart for them. Anyone! Please!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: I read F_W posts like this and think... - [info]phosfate, 2004-01-14 12:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]delfeus, 2004-01-14 01:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kannaophelia, 2004-01-14 04:28 am UTC
... - [info]delfeus, 2004-01-14 12:49 pm UTC
... - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 04:28 pm UTC
... - [info]delfeus, 2004-01-14 09:11 pm UTC
... - [info]kannaophelia, 2004-01-15 03:36 am UTC
... - [info]delfeus, 2004-01-15 08:56 am UTC
... - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-18 02:32 pm UTC
... - [info]delfeus, 2004-01-18 10:12 pm UTC
Re: I read F_W posts like this and think... - [info]byagghametta, 2004-01-14 01:25 am UTC
Re: I read F_W posts like this and think... - [info]belafarinrod, 2004-01-14 02:27 am UTC
Re: I read F_W posts like this and think... - [info]rogue, 2004-01-14 03:18 am UTC
Re: I read F_W posts like this and think... - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 03:20 am UTC
Re: I read F_W posts like this and think... - [info]rogue, 2004-01-14 03:23 am UTC
... - [info]rogue, 2004-01-14 03:24 am UTC
... - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 03:31 am UTC
... - [info]rogue, 2004-01-14 03:35 am UTC
... - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 03:43 am UTC
... - [info]schuldig, 2004-01-14 04:09 am UTC
... - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 04:42 am UTC
... - [info]schuldig, 2004-01-14 05:34 pm UTC
... - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 10:02 pm UTC
... - [info]schuldig, 2004-01-14 11:26 pm UTC
... - [info]schuldig, 2004-01-14 04:23 am UTC
... - [info]schuldig, 2004-01-14 04:07 am UTC
... - [info]rogue, 2004-01-14 04:15 am UTC
... - [info]robinterrae, 2004-01-14 05:41 am UTC
... - [info]kasra, 2004-01-14 09:37 am UTC
... - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 08:55 pm UTC
Re: I read F_W posts like this and think... - [info]schuldig, 2004-01-14 04:07 am UTC
Re: I read F_W posts like this and think... - [info]rogue, 2004-01-14 04:15 am UTC
Re: I read F_W posts like this and think... - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 03:49 am UTC
Re: I read F_W posts like this and think... - [info]impendingdoom, 2004-01-14 08:29 am UTC

[info]wolfsamurai
2004-01-14 12:56 am UTC (link)
I've got a friend like that on my friends list, except she's even more rabid about her "Anything in English sucks!" stance (I posted about her in [info]rabidfanssuck a while back for those of you there) and I have to roll my eyes when I see things like this. Even when these people have point, they can't leave it well enough alone. They have to make sweeping generalizations, they have to pull the "I'm a better fan than you because of X", or whatever. People like that are the reason that I don't participate in the anime or manga communities, because I fully expect that they'll come out of the woodwork to whine if I were to say things like "Wow, I really liked how they translated the Rurouni Kenshin manga".

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 01:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-14 01:36 am UTC
Re: - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 01:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:47 am UTC
... - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 06:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-14 01:37 am UTC
Re: - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 01:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-14 02:00 am UTC
... - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 02:05 am UTC
... - (Anonymous), 2004-01-14 04:58 am UTC
... - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 05:07 am UTC
... - (Anonymous), 2004-01-14 05:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]feenix, 2004-01-14 02:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 03:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dawnswalker, 2004-01-14 03:36 am UTC
Re: - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 03:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:50 am UTC
Re: - [info]majinkarp, 2004-01-14 03:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dawnswalker, 2004-01-14 04:26 am UTC
... - [info]aruru, 2004-01-14 04:52 am UTC
... - [info]ruaki, 2004-01-14 05:18 am UTC
... - [info]aruru, 2004-01-15 12:58 am UTC
... - [info]ruaki, 2004-01-15 06:38 am UTC
... - [info]liarliar, 2004-01-14 02:24 pm UTC
Employing the AOL translater again - [info]sarajayechan, 2004-01-14 07:46 am UTC
Re: Employing the AOL translater again - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 07:56 am UTC
Re: Employing the AOL translater again - [info]sarajayechan, 2004-01-14 07:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oxydosic, 2004-01-14 07:03 pm UTC
Re: - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 11:51 pm UTC

[info]byagghametta
2004-01-14 01:23 am UTC (link)
Can we envoke some kind of rule whereby you must wank in the language being wanked about for it to be taken remotely seriously?

I know I'm a sub snob when it comes to anime, but if English translated manga is all I can understand, I'm going to get that. I like my weird snakewomen chasing weirder human women who chase catmen and who all wanna have hot sex, and I am just not getting that from American comics these days.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-01-14 05:13 am UTC

[info]rebeccasama
2004-01-14 01:28 am UTC (link)
Manga are no longer a reward for the intellectual among us... :( It's sad... I feel like I belonged to a special club, and now everyone is allowed in and it's not fun anymore.

Right, well I'm not going to be a jackass and list all my acedemic qualifications but seriously... You have to be able to read Japanese (and not just Japanese but slang terms, sound effects, etc) to be an intellectual? Riiight. I'll admit that I do try to learn some Japanese in my spare time because I am interested in being able to read it in the original but it's not like you can roll out of bed one day and say "Today I shall learn to speak and read Japanese!" Another note about her price markup rant - it's a hell of a lot more expensive to actually import the originals to America than to buy the translations (especially if you're looking for something rare).

I think she's just mad her sooper speshul manga isn't elitist anymore. I certainly haven't heard the actual authors of the manga complaining about it - and you'd think they would be the ones with an actual right to. They don't seem to complain at any of the cons where they meet and greet English-speaking/reading fans.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]byagghametta, 2004-01-14 01:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kannaophelia, 2004-01-14 04:31 am UTC
Re: - [info]byagghametta, 2004-01-14 04:39 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:54 am UTC
... - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 04:38 pm UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:01 pm UTC
... - [info]deoridhe, 2004-01-14 05:26 pm UTC
... - [info]byagghametta, 2004-01-14 05:23 pm UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 01:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]byagghametta, 2004-01-14 01:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-01-14 01:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rebeccasama, 2004-01-14 10:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kyuuketsukirui, 2004-01-14 07:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rebeccasama, 2004-01-14 10:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kyuuketsukirui, 2004-01-14 10:39 am UTC
... - [info]rebeccasama, 2004-01-14 10:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-01-14 06:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rebeccasama, 2004-01-14 10:38 am UTC

[info]ladybirdsleeps
2004-01-14 01:29 am UTC (link)
Maybe, you know, people just don't want to learn Japanese because it's a stupid language.

/troll

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-14 01:39 am UTC
(no subject) - allen, 2004-01-14 02:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-14 02:49 am UTC

[info]feenix
2004-01-14 01:44 am UTC (link)
I know this is going to sound wanky, considering my manga collection consists of three translated volumes...but she does have a point with translators changing lines to fit more in line with American culture. Because, while I loved Azumanga Daioh to death, the entire story arc where Osaka is introduced didn't seem quite right in English (Noo Yawk accent--WTF?). And I hadn't even seen a scanlation of it before I bought it.

Everything else: Bitch, I ain't learning Japanese just so I can relax. And that's what fandom is, really--it's a hobby. And while I think it's good to pick up a new language, I don't think you should be required to while in fandom.

Japan is not the promised land. Any nation with a language that requires you to memorize 1000 pictures for literacy is not heaven.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 01:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]feenix, 2004-01-14 02:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 03:08 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:58 am UTC
... - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-01-14 06:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rogue, 2004-01-14 03:15 am UTC
Only 1,000? - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 03:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]heyoka, 2004-01-14 04:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2004-01-14 05:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]liarliar, 2004-01-14 02:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amasaglajax, 2004-01-14 08:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]feenix, 2004-01-14 08:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarajayechan, 2004-01-14 07:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-01-14 08:48 am UTC

[info]jyuu
2004-01-14 02:32 am UTC (link)
The authors officially go by the "last name first"... so it's only fair that YOU should change, not us.

However, I DID put haruki murakami AND murakami haruki on my list, because his books were released in the US, and his name appears the american way in that regard. But for the above example there is no excuse, she's only been released in Japan.

Oh, how sweet of you to allow us a reprieve in this one instance.

But seriously, who the hell cares? If I like something enough to go searching through my interests for those who share it (I generally don't, but hey, given a long night and nothing to do...) then I'll make sure to try all the permutations of my given interest. There's about 5 different ways to list Prince of Tennis as an interest that are all correct and widely used and-- SHOCK! --they're not all recognized as "official" abbreviations (or in some cases, there's more than one way to romanize). In any case, shut the hell up and list both or list the one you feel is more correct, but unless you're the goddamn author, don't preach at me about how I "should" do it.

(Reply to this)


[info]rogue
2004-01-14 02:38 am UTC (link)
Dude, this girl can suck it. Thanks to the rising popularity of manga in the US, do you know who's picking up more titles? DarkHorse. And DarkHorse picked up Hellsing, THANK YOU GOD. Decent translations with no censoring. Yum. Admittedly, they have committed unforgivable sins like publishing that Megatokyo filth (which has no fucking place next to Han Solo, thankyouverymuch), but they're one of the better publishers out there, and it's about damn time they've picked up more mainstream titles.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]heyoka, 2004-01-14 04:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rogue, 2004-01-14 04:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pidge, 2004-01-14 06:26 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]heyoka, 2004-01-14 08:31 am UTC
... - [info]liarliar, 2004-01-14 02:33 pm UTC
... - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2004-01-15 01:55 am UTC
... - [info]liarliar, 2004-01-15 02:08 am UTC
... - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2004-01-15 02:54 am UTC
... - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-18 02:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schuldig, 2004-01-14 03:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dawnswalker, 2004-01-14 06:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]amand_r, 2004-01-14 08:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:35 pm UTC

[info]belafarinrod
2004-01-14 02:38 am UTC (link)
Ergh. I personally think that manga translations tend to be better once it's gotten a bit bigger - more obsessed fans nagging about name-changes, people more open to foreign ideas... just compare recent releases with things like Robotech or (huurg) Sailor Moon anime/manga. That was butchered stuff. Now, they try. It's not perfect, but what the hell, you can get your manga in an understandable language it stands right there in your bookshop - I love it.

As for the "write singers the right way"... um, excuse me, but do you really want people to start fill their interest lists with kanji and katakana? Well, she probably wants to but... If we romanize something because we're like, duh, not all born with the ability to talk/read/write Japanese perfectly, it's already changed. Who gives a fuck in which order a name is written?

because I remember how hard it was to get any manga I could understand a few years back

Word. I'm still suffering in my backwater corner of the world and regularly drool when I read reports of huge american cons and the like. Translated manga brings in the masses and the masses are, whether you like it or not, a large part of the fandom and a regular source of truly interesting/witty/wonderful people. And morons, flamers and elitist asshats too, of course...

(Reply to this)

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]kannaophelia, 2004-01-14 04:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rogue, 2004-01-14 04:45 am UTC
Re: - [info]kannaophelia, 2004-01-14 04:46 am UTC
... - [info]rogue, 2004-01-14 04:49 am UTC
... - [info]aruru, 2004-01-15 01:07 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
... - [info]bishounenhuntrs, 2004-01-15 04:33 pm UTC

[info]ladybirdsleeps
2004-01-14 02:55 am UTC (link)
I think she's just upset that she doesn't have anything to feel cool and trendy about anymore. I should tell her that Japanese itself is cool and trendy (the Japanese class at my university has a fucking waiting list); it would probably make her head explode.

But seriously -- if you don't want to learn Japanese, you're lazy? Maybe we just don't, you know, want to.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rogue, 2004-01-14 03:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-01-14 03:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-14 04:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]loki, 2004-01-14 03:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]vergilsparda, 2004-01-14 03:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kimera, 2004-01-14 03:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]liarliar, 2004-01-14 02:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kannaophelia, 2004-01-14 04:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-14 04:49 am UTC
... - [info]kannaophelia, 2004-01-14 04:52 am UTC
... - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-14 05:00 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 06:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]htrismegistus, 2004-01-14 06:38 am UTC
Re: - [info]majinkarp, 2004-01-14 08:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmikhailovic, 2004-01-14 01:53 pm UTC
... - [info]amasaglajax, 2004-01-14 09:00 pm UTC

[info]byagghametta
2004-01-14 03:24 am UTC (link)
I think I finally see exactly why she's mad.

She's pissed because she spent years of her life learning Japanese so she could read cheap pulp comics that she couldn't otherwise understand, and now those same cheap comics are being translated, and if she'd just WAITED, maybe she wouldn't have had to learn a whole new language and fill up her brain with this knowledge, the space for which could've been otherwise used up ogling prettyprettybishies. XD

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: - [info]majinkarp, 2004-01-14 03:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]heyoka, 2004-01-14 04:11 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 06:09 am UTC
... - [info]heyoka, 2004-01-14 08:21 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 04:42 pm UTC
... - [info]ymfaery, 2004-01-14 08:43 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 04:39 pm UTC
... - [info]lntora, 2004-01-15 09:16 am UTC
... - [info]smo, 2004-01-15 04:34 pm UTC
... - [info]koshiroryuu, 2004-01-17 10:11 pm UTC
... - [info]lntora, 2004-01-17 10:59 pm UTC

[info]loki
2004-01-14 03:45 am UTC (link)
While it's true that raw manga is cheaper (assuming, of course, that there is a Japanese bookstore nearby), I'd rather be able read the story *and* look at the art work. I could look up the translations online or ask a friend who knows Japanese, but I'd like to read it myself, y'know?

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2004-01-14 04:46 am UTC (link)
So...you learn Japanese just to read manga. Well, I know I took seven years of German just so I could figure out what the hell Falco is saying in "Rock Me, Amadeus".

On an aside note, I had a pal who was planning on taking Japanese in college. He did, and I spoke to him last year. He was acting a bit pedantic...just talking in Japanese to show off that he knew it. I was more amused than irritated, but he hasn't talked to me since then.

I don't know why, but he reminded me of the person who wrote this essay. I hope that this elitist attitude isn't a common trait among students taking Japanese (I seriously doubt that it is- I've even studied Japanese a little bit, but the best I can do is pick out when Charmy says "High-Spec Version!" during that one episode of Sonic X...)

-kicklecubicle

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ruaki, 2004-01-14 05:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-14 05:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]calluna, 2004-01-14 06:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladysorka, 2004-01-14 09:43 am UTC

[info]thespacecat
2004-01-14 06:13 am UTC (link)
1) Mistranslations pretty much have to happen, because if you do a literal translation of most things it ends up sounding stupid. Different language, different culture. This is especially true of a language like Japanese, which is very different from English in it's structure. Since it has to exist (or the translation will just suck, even if it's technically accurate), why not just view the inaccuracy in English manga as just another elitist perk and congratulate yourself on being able to read the originals.

2) White people who learn Japanese are amongst the most unrighteously obnoxious and arrogant people in existence, and fully half of them should be stabbed to death in dark alleys.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]gaisce, 2004-01-14 08:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thespacecat, 2004-01-14 10:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amasaglajax, 2004-01-14 09:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 09:12 pm UTC
... - [info]amasaglajax, 2004-01-15 04:43 am UTC

[info]ivyincubus
2004-01-14 06:57 am UTC (link)
Now she's being personally attacked. And she's taking the defensive. I'd i_wank it, since I added a few comments myself, but since its already here...

(Reply to this)

I've always wanted to say this...
[info]iczer6
2004-01-14 07:06 am UTC (link)
[Personally, I'm ecstatic to see Shounen Jump for sale in the supermarket, because I remember how hard it was to get any manga I could understand a few years back.]

/crotchyiness ON/

In MY day we didn't have things like Shonen Jump or Tokyo Pop. No we only had Viz and they only released a graphic novel once every four years and only during a full moon.

And we were thankful.

You can forget about those nice DVDs with their choice of dub or sub, we had to actually choose between the two and we were thankful.

And we certainly didn't have all these choices, we had either Ranma, or The Guyver and that was it, and yes we were thankful.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: I've always wanted to say this... - [info]kyuuketsukirui, 2004-01-14 07:58 am UTC
Re: I've always wanted to say this... - [info]thespacecat, 2004-01-14 08:25 am UTC
Re: I've always wanted to say this... - [info]belafarinrod, 2004-01-14 12:24 pm UTC
Re: I've always wanted to say this... - [info]smo, 2004-01-14 05:40 pm UTC
Re: I've always wanted to say this... - (Anonymous), 2004-01-14 11:53 pm UTC
Re: I've always wanted to say this... - [info]bishounenhuntrs, 2004-01-15 04:56 pm UTC
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