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Azure Lunatic ([info]azurelunatic) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2004-01-26 19:48:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
fandom_scruples is now reachable for comment. Ha!
http://www.livejournal.com/users/elance/290079.html

The lovely E has gifted LJ user fandom_scruples with two months of paid account. fandom_scruples@livejournal.com

[edit @ around 9 pm my time: and fandom_scruples has been reported to LJ admin for extortion. ]

[son of the edit: Links to some of the reports to LJ admin are in comments here and elsewhere. Please post your own reports of extortion to LJ admin in comments here, with a subject line clearly identifying them as such. All for documentation purposes, natch.

Furthermore, LJ admin's current position is that f_s's actions haven't yet been against TOS, and that they aren't responsible for f_s's actions on other sites. Debate over this has been going on as we speak; no definitive conclusion has yet been reached.]

[bastard second offspring of the edit @ 9:55 pm my time: LJ admin are closing support requests from those who won't take "fandom_scruples hasn't actually violated the TOS" as an answer. Which says good things for LJ's support of free speech, which means that LJ won't likely target those with smut in their journals if f_s gets all uppity at them, but bad for justice being served on f_s. And for the record, E and her husband absolutely do not support mounting a massive spam campaign on fandom_scruples's inbox at all. No.]

[grandson of the edit @ 10:07 pm my time: Please, feel free to archive the entire text of the exchange between you and LJ support regarding f_s, neatly labeled for our enjoyment, lest it disappear because LJ considers it too, too wanky. And they are making them disappear. ]

[illegitimate grandson of the edit @ 11:42 pm my time: Looks like LJ support/abuse is getting slammed with this issue. As a part-time volunteer, I really can't condone making their lives too miserable. Unless you're actually *on* the blacklist, or have reason to believe that you are among the people that fandom_scruples is threatening to bring the Wrath of US Law down upon, try not to get involved over there. And do please be polite to Support/Abuse. No need to make us look like asshats, just concerned netizens worried that f_s plans to defy the LJ TOS and attempt to collect personally identifiable information about LJ users (stalking).]

[edit without a clever name @ 12:07 am Tuesday: COPA is not COPPA. COPA, which f_s is arguing based on, was overturned. COPPA is about the collection of personally identifiable information about kids, and is still in force. COPA is about the objectionable material. ]

[edit again, still without a witty name @ 1:34 am Tuesday: Now that LJ Abuse has been notified and given their response, and fandom_scruples@livejournal.com has been thoroughly e-mailed, and everyone's calmed down about the proceedings... Until fandom_scruples makes their next move (which I have no doubt that they'll do) it looks like it's all over but the inevitable review on http://www.ljdrama.org and the repercussions being played out in fannish circles all over the 'net. ]

[edit again again @ 1:52: In case f_w makes those entries that prompted this wank private, I've duplicated them in comments here. ]



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[info]ingrid
2004-01-27 04:59 am UTC (link)
*laughs hysterically*

So elegant, really.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 05:07 am UTC

[info]dawnswalker
2004-01-27 05:01 am UTC (link)
Heh! I would never have thought of that...

(Reply to this)


[info]mael
2004-01-27 05:04 am UTC (link)
That, my friend, is pure genius. Genius.


*cackles*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 06:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mael, 2004-01-27 06:10 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 06:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mael, 2004-01-27 06:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]baskinglizard, 2004-01-27 07:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]musette, 2004-01-27 06:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mael, 2004-01-27 06:53 am UTC
Re: - [info]musette, 2004-01-27 07:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]musette, 2004-01-27 06:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mael, 2004-01-27 06:51 am UTC
Re: - [info]musette, 2004-01-27 07:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cabari, 2004-01-27 07:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2004-01-27 07:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mael, 2004-01-27 04:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 07:43 am UTC

[info]muffinbutt
2004-01-27 05:07 am UTC (link)
*points to icon*

I think a few poncy billet-doux are in order. :X

(Reply to this)


[info]ymfaery
2004-01-27 05:12 am UTC (link)
...

That is so evil. Kill them with kindness indeed. >D >D >D

And it's not like the person behind f_s can turn off forwarding unless they take out their email address, which is a no-no if I remember correctly. >D >D >D

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 05:46 am UTC

[info]eljuno
2004-01-27 05:13 am UTC (link)
I just passed me the word along in my livejournal. MORE MUST BE TOLD!

(Reply to this)


[info]iris
2004-01-27 05:29 am UTC (link)
Some spoilsport in the comments said they're reporting to LJ Abuse. Bah.

Still, it's a move of brilliance!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jacquez, 2004-01-27 05:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iris, 2004-01-27 06:34 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 05:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 05:41 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2004-01-27 05:35 am UTC (link)
Gah...this whole fandom_scruples mess gets less and less entertaining (although it's good for a laugh, once in a while).

It is, after all possible, to find a lot of the smutty fic posted on the Net obnoxious and offensive, but to not think it should be banned or forbidden, and certainly not want to 'black-list' those who write it---that's just McCarthy bullshit. On the other hand, labeling is nice; it's just plain somewhat civil, and civility is an important virtue in the liberal (small l) society.

LJ dramas will never have anything on the wide world that is Usenet for flamewars, though. Proud to post on one of the most occasionally malignant communities out there...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 07:23 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 09:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 09:16 am UTC

pooka
2004-01-27 05:41 am UTC (link)
Woo! It's nice to know that smart people still exist in this world.

...I totally typed "samrt" at first.

(Reply to this)


tocomfortyou
2004-01-27 05:42 am UTC (link)
HAHAHAHAHA.

(Reply to this)

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 06:09 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 06:09 am UTC

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 06:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 06:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 09:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 09:08 am UTC

[info]skarrow
2004-01-27 06:51 am UTC (link)
What a wonderful way to say "fuck you very much".

And maybe it's for the best that journalfen won't lay the TOS-smackdown on fandom_scruples. They generate ... the most AMAZING wank.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 06:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2004-01-27 07:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 07:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2004-01-27 07:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]calluna, 2004-01-27 07:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2004-01-27 03:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]resmiranda, 2004-01-27 05:03 pm UTC
Part One
[info]hopeluthor
2004-01-27 07:12 am UTC (link)
Here's the full text of my complaint:

---

My initial report:

----------------------------------------
http://www.livejournal.com/users/fandom_scruples/1110.html#cutid1

http://www.livejournal.com/users/fandom_scruples/1474.html

http://www.livejournal.com/users/fandom_scruples/804.html

Additional Comments:
----------------------------------------
When this journal started, the anonymous owner invited people to seek people out and nominate them for their "blacklist." Those entries still exist, though they are now locked. All they wanted was for people to avoid reading them until they password protected their personal archives.

Over time, as you can see from reading the links, they have progressed from simply compiling a list of people who do/do not have adult fan fiction available, but to using LiveJournal, and the information found on other users' LiveJournals as a tool of extortion: do what we want you to, or we will report you to the Federal Government.

The people on this blacklist are ALL people who write adult fan fiction or create adult fandom art, and who also- beyond the requirement of the law- rate their fan fiction so that parents can monitor their childrens' viewing of the material. No one here is posting real live pornographic pictures, and in spite of what fandom_scruples would like you to believe, none of us here are writing, or drawing, child pornography. This blatant use of LiveJournal to threaten and extort other members is plainly a violation of the TOS, and I know that I would feel much better if this element were censured.

Thank you,

Hope (lj user rosenho)

---

Their initial response:

Dear user,

The content posted by the user "fandom_scruples" is not in violation of either the Terms of Service or United States law. The content posted is simply an opinion. In order to meet the definition of "harassment", an individual must be identifiable as a specific individual in the real world, through the posting of content such as full name, address, or telephone number. First names, Internet nicknames, and LiveJournal usernames are not sufficient to qualify as harassment. We are also not able to take action on anything that happens outside of LiveJournal's servers.

We respectfully suggest that if you are disturbed by such content, you should avoid reading it.

Regards,
LiveJournal Abuse Team

--

My response to them:

They say:

There are no excuses. We have come to a decision that we will give websites two weeks to comply with COPA or we will report them to a federal agency that we have sought advice from.


The United States Penal Code Says:

EXTORTION - The use, or the express or implicit threat of the use, of violence or other criminal means to cause harm to person, reputation, or property as a means to obtain property from someone else with his consent. USC 18

This isn't a case of "I don't like what they have to say," I don't care if they want to make lists of fandom authors to avoid, that's entirely their right. This is a case of them using LiveJournal to further the federal crime of exortion- they state plainly that they *have* collected personal information, and they state plainly that they *will* use this personal information if certain terms of their liking are not met.

It's against LiveJournal's Terms of Service to use LJ as a place to further crimes, and to *threaten* other users, and it's plainly against US Federal Law to extort other people. Every single person on their blacklist, myself included, is a LiveJournal user, and they are attempting to commit a crime against us.

---

They say:

Dear user,

The content does not meet the legal definition of extortion. The user in question is not using the threat of violence or criminal means to accomplish anything.

No personal information is displayed on LiveJournal's servers. No illegal action is taking place. We are unable to assist you.

Regards,
LiveJournal Abuse Team

---

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Part Two - [info]hopeluthor, 2004-01-27 07:13 am UTC
Re: Part Two - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 07:17 am UTC
Re: Part Two - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 07:31 am UTC
Re: Part Two - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 09:03 am UTC
Re: Part Two - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 07:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hopeluthor, 2004-01-27 07:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 07:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2004-01-27 07:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 07:48 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-28 06:54 pm UTC

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]hopeluthor, 2004-01-27 07:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 07:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 09:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 09:05 am UTC
Re: For archive purposes - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 08:42 am UTC
Re: For archive purposes - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 08:49 am UTC
Re: For archive purposes - (Anonymous), 2004-01-29 01:54 pm UTC

[info]sarajayechan
2004-01-27 07:41 am UTC (link)
*snicker*

(Reply to this)


[info]psychofangirl
2004-01-27 08:05 am UTC (link)
Jesus Christ...I never thought it would go this far...

(Reply to this)


[info]ladybirdsleeps
2004-01-27 08:32 am UTC (link)
I hope this doesn't sound too bitchy of me, but spamming support = bad. Spamming abuse = worse. The abuse team is very overworked, and I know that a lot of you may disagree with their decisions, but they really try their best.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-27 08:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 08:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 08:36 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 08:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 08:43 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 08:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 08:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 09:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 09:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 09:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 09:18 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 09:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 09:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 09:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 09:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-01-27 06:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 07:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-01-27 07:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2004-01-27 08:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-01-27 09:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-28 12:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-01-28 05:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 07:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-01-27 07:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-01-27 09:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 08:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 09:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 08:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2004-01-27 09:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 10:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2004-01-27 04:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 05:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 05:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-01-27 07:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hopeluthor, 2004-01-27 10:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 10:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 06:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bookshop, 2004-01-27 06:54 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2004-01-27 08:35 am UTC (link)
God the abuse team is fucking stupid.....if they let the prudish asshat get away with this shit, what's next??

and if COPA was REALLY overturned why the hell do they link to it on the index?? O.o

-- Ruby (sio on LJ)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 08:38 am UTC
mmm....my bad - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 08:45 am UTC

[info]shoiryu
2004-01-27 08:42 am UTC (link)
Speaking as someone who works for a large website processing user tickets... I really don't think it's a good idea to get all aggressive at the abuse team. Especially to the point that someone up there mentioned.

I know you're frustrated, but it's not fun to be on the recieving end.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 09:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-27 09:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 07:01 pm UTC

[info]roz_mcclure
2004-01-27 08:42 am UTC (link)
Call me a crackwhore, but I don't think that what f_s is pulling can actually be called extortion. I mean, the COPA was invalidated and is now powerless, and the complaint (that porny fic harmful to minors) would be thrown out of any court because in case you didn't notice? Fic isn't commerical. So, LJ Abuse is right to say that f_s isn't violating and of the TOS.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2004-01-27 08:58 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 01:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jumble, 2004-01-27 02:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-01-27 06:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jumble, 2004-01-28 12:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]crickets, 2004-01-27 09:42 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2004-01-27 09:10 am UTC (link)
Don't bother posting here that you filed a report or what they said to you.You'll just be called a jerk, a spammer, and other lovely things.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shoiryu, 2004-01-27 09:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wibbble, 2004-01-27 06:07 pm UTC

[info]meril
2004-01-27 09:12 am UTC (link)
I'm with [info]ladybirdsleeps and [info]shoiryu on this one. Spamming Support is not a good thing.

This is right up there with friends list wank.

You Have Been Trolled, HP Fandom.
Do Not Troll Back at LJ.

Is anyone going to submit this to LJDrama?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 09:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-01-27 09:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]anon_3point5, 2004-01-27 09:18 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 03:23 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2004-01-27 09:28 am UTC (link)
Definitely not a crackwhore. I thank you as well.

(Reply to this)

And the entries that prompted it all...
[info]azurelunatic
2004-01-27 10:40 am UTC (link)

http://www.livejournal.com/users/fandom_scruples/1474.html


2004.01.26 15.21
Announcement

After a week or so of debate on this topic, we've gathered , and have on file a good deal of information.

We believe in public responsibility.

To those who might not know it, Child Online Protection Act (COPA) was passed on Oct. 21, 1998. The Act makes it a federal crime to use the World Wide Web to distribute "for commercial purposes" material considered "harmful to minors," with penalties of up to $150,000 for each day of violation and up to six months in prison.

We have compiled evidence against several websites who have knowingly violated this law.

We believe everyone is responsible for the social welfare of children online and that website owners can easily provide adult authentication access for free or for a fee to adults.

There are no excuses. We have come to a decision that we will give websites two weeks to comply with COPA or we will report them to a federal agency that we have sought advice from.

Comments aren't necessary.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: And the entries that prompted it all... - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 10:44 am UTC
Re: And the entries that prompted it all... - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 10:46 am UTC
Re: And the entries that prompted it all... - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 10:47 am UTC
Re: And the entries that prompted it all... - [info]azurelunatic, 2004-01-27 10:48 am UTC
Re: And the entries that prompted it all... - (Anonymous), 2004-01-27 07:10 pm UTC
Re: And the entries that prompted it all... - [info]phosfate, 2004-01-28 05:30 pm UTC



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