(Post a new comment)

	muzivitch 2004-02-01 10:40 pm UTC (link)
	snickers I was just writing up a report for this. My favorite part was when they argued over the True Meaning of "questionable talent." I'm not overly surprised by the wankiness...the three major players were good at producing it in spades when they were in the X fandom. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	rinoared 2004-02-01 10:50 pm UTC (link)
	Sorry for being faster ^_~ That's the truly wonderful part, yes. I loved the implication that if the commenter only had read their works, they'd never call their talents "questionable". Um, what? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	big_bad_wolf 2004-02-01 10:54 pm UTC (link)
	Meep - I totally missed that part of the wank and got all wanky about the "demands made on the author" part instead. Stupid Wolf. :( (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	muzivitch 2004-02-01 11:09 pm UTC (link)
	That particular post was so full of wanky potential that it would be easy to overlook one of the many possibilities. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: big_bad_wolf 2004-02-01 11:09 pm UTC (link)
	Indeed. Why can't these people number and highlight their wanks? With semen! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: muzivitch 2004-02-01 11:15 pm UTC (link)
	They obviously have no concern for us. Where's the assistance for the easily amused? (Although I, for one, doubt they can aim their semen well enough to properly mark the key points) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mariagoner 2004-02-02 11:46 am UTC (link)
	It's actually easy to direct your semen if someone holds the spewing appendage for you. Try it with your boyfriend/ejaculating girl-friend today! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kerikeri 2004-02-02 04:14 am UTC (link)
	Oh, I didn't even realize baitedbreath was another ex-Xer until I read this comment and checked her userinfo. Hee. That just makes the wank that much more delicious. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2004-02-02 06:24 am UTC (link)

Oh, but I still am very much an X-er. I still adore the manga, I just got tired of the fandom's BS. ^^

And "questionable talent" means that I question their talent. And anyone who thinks that they have any. I'm just waiting to see which character in the story Kouri decides she's going to "become." In X, it was Kakyou (among others), in Yami, it was Oriya, and in Fruits Basket, it was Shigure. I'm just hoping that she leaves Sloane and Vincent be. u__u

-Baitedbreath

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2004-02-03 05:56 am UTC (link)

Okay. I don't mean to start wank, honest I don't, but I'm so *confused*. I've written *one* FruBa fic, and sure, Shigure was a major player, but I hardly thought I was becoming him. I've got no idea where you're getting Oriya from, and I've *never* written Kakyou. In everything I ever wrote, he was either very minor (Reversal, Before I Wake), not in the story at all (Ashes), or written by *Karasu*, not *me* (Atropos). You have *totally* lost me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2004-02-04 09:37 pm UTC (link)

Okay, I was wrong about the Kakyou example. Please be so kind as to forgive me for not being able to tell between the two of you when you write. You might take that as a compliment, I have no idea.

Oriya never was a snarky bitch, either in the manga or the anime. He was wry, occassionally willing to tell Muraki he was being dumb, but would never think to raise a hand to his longtime friend/associate. But the minute he steps onto paper in your fics, BAM, "witty" dialogue galore, complete with bitchslapping. But, of course, he sounds so much like the Kakyou in your team fics that perhaps this is also Karasu?

And as far as Shigure goes, it's not exactly intelligent to post an opinion about Akito in your blog and then turn around and use it, verbatim, in a fic. If you weren't inserting yourself in the story, then it's merely very poor word choice.

Hope that helps clear up what I was referring to. ^^

~Baitedbreath

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-02-05 06:07 am UTC (link)
	But, of course, he sounds so much like the Kakyou in your team fics that perhaps this is also Karasu? Agreed. All finding out that Karasu wrote Kakyou made me think was, "Oh. So it's KARASU'S Kakyou that needs to be shot through the head with an elephant gun for crimes of indescribable OOC. I stand corrected." (Reply to this)(Parent)

big_bad_wolf
2004-02-01 10:49 pm UTC (link)

When an artist walks away from a comic, they walk away with a portfolio full of work that they might be able to use in a professional situation. All the fans get is a sense that they've wasted a great deal of time, and that they should be ashamed to feel slighted because they're supposed to have consideration for the ah-tist when the ah-tist doesn't have any consideration for them.

Has this person EVER been an artist in their entire damned life?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	zee 2004-02-01 11:43 pm UTC (link)
	Obviously not. And by the way, I have no idea what your icon's all about, yet somehow it still amuses me greatly. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	big_bad_wolf 2004-02-02 11:22 am UTC (link)
	explains My own spectarularly (and deliberately) shitty webcomic has somehow garnered a fandom of two people ... both of home are relentless bitches who insist on slashes everything from people to furniture (and I love them very much). One of them made a whole set of slasher icons. For numbered circles. (Reply to this)(Parent)

iczer6
2004-02-01 11:56 pm UTC (link)

Actually I agree with them. It's annoying to have someone bail on something you really liked and you can't even bitch about it because then you end up looking like a whiny jerk.

I also agree that if you're gonna do a webcomic be prepared to deal with Shit Happening. At the risk of sound whiny myself there are some webcomic authors who I'd really like to give a swift kick to.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	beccastareyes 2004-02-02 02:54 am UTC (link)
	Heck, I'm a webcomic artist, and if I were a fan, I would give a swift kick to myself -- I tend to skip updates due to bad budgeting of time. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	iczer6 2004-02-02 03:14 am UTC (link)
	I would just like to apologize for the complete lack of commas in the above sentence. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re:

big_bad_wolf
2004-02-02 12:30 pm UTC (link)

I know how annoying it is but really, if you're not getting paid for something or doing it for the good of mankind then stopping your hobby because of Shit Happening is probably the wisest thing to do, rather than letting it become an extra burden or allowing the Shit Happening to take a toll on your artwork.

I think what I'm saying is I'd be upset if people ragged me the way they are Kelly about leaving her project. Kinda makes one glad to be unknown. :D

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

iczer6
2004-02-02 08:05 pm UTC (link)

I know how annoying it is but really, if you're not getting paid for something or doing it for the good of mankind then stopping your hobby because of Shit Happening is probably the wisest thing to do, rather than letting it become an extra burden or allowing the Shit Happening to take a toll on your artwork.

Very true, though I thought the ending sucked like a nuclear powered hover, I will give Sandra credit for realizing that it was time to retire BmB.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

nolifeking
2004-02-02 09:36 pm UTC (link)

Hrm, I do draw a comic, where a single page takes about six to eight hours to do. Now whether it comes to long breaks (which I've had to take), or ending the comic too early (hope I'll never have to), I would feel sorry but at the same time have no qualms about giving it up. I simply can't afford to feel a professional obligation to my readers, so all obligation I feel is about being nice to relative strangers, and that goes out the window pretty fast if real work or people I know (including me) needs that time. Knowing how I will prioritise in those cases is really all preparation I can do.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2004-02-02 06:34 am UTC (link)
	So.... the status of "artist" excludes one from having to follow up on projects and/or have consideration for people? o.o Well, that does explain Rainbow Gossip's attitude then, doesn't it.... -Baitedbreath (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	md 2004-02-02 06:44 am UTC (link)
	OMG. chokes on laughter I remember that. XD (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: big_bad_wolf 2004-02-02 11:15 am UTC (link)
	The status of "human being" means that the people you are close to are more important than the people who read your work. (Reply to this)(Parent)

eiviiaru
2004-02-02 12:04 am UTC (link)

I like how they don't seem to understand that the artist isn't being pushed away from the comic by an Unseen Force -- she's not doing it anymore because she doesn't want to, and so all the "OMG HOW DARE YOU FORCE US TO NOT READ YOUR COMIC ANYMORE" whining isn't going to drag her back.

I also like the little aside about how clearly prose could not adequately communicate the BEEEAUTY that is the Arcana story. Because, of course, prose has proven itself so universally unable to communicate stories...

(Reply to this)

	ladybirdsleeps 2004-02-02 12:31 am UTC (link)
	Damnit, I was hoping for LJ Support wank. feels cheated (Reply to this)(Thread)

	rinoared 2004-02-02 10:19 am UTC (link)
	offers apologies on misleading link-wording But isn't Lj support always full of wank? goes hunting (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ladybirdsleeps 2004-02-02 01:50 pm UTC (link)
	Not exceptionally, no. We're required to do our bitching behind friends-locked posts. (Reply to this)(Parent)

shoiryu
2004-02-02 01:21 am UTC (link)

If you've read our stuff, our talent isn't exactly "questionable", at least not for you.

.......BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA OH GOD. Best laugh I've had all week.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	muzivitch 2004-02-02 02:45 am UTC (link)
	I'm particularly fond of their "original fiction." At least half of them are rewrites of their fanfics. The only amusing part is going "oh, hey, Keiichi and Seishirou are having sex!" (Reply to this)(Parent)

kerikeri
2004-02-02 04:28 am UTC (link)

I'd say "questionable" is being very nice. I might have said "wooden", "trite", "overhyped", and "cookie-cutter". Hey ladies, it's not a good thing when every single one of your characters has the same personality. Especially when you're writing /fanfic/.

*cheers for snarky!shoi* Also isn't a good thing when all your characters from a Japanese manga talk like American teenagers. Or when you pretend half the cast of said manga doesn't even exist and/or kill them off in lame, contrived ways because there are just too many characters and you could never do them all justice, and yet somehow, mysteriously, you have no problem adding 5 "original characters" who are clones of the canon characters you happen to like, and 5 more characters crossed over from some other manga, as long as they're all nubile young prettyboys.

... yeah, not bitter at all. Hee. Wankwankwank.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-02-02 04:43 am UTC (link)
	Don't forget one of them declaring that HER version of Seishirou was ever so much more interesting than CLAMP's. Gee, arrogant much? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	shoiryu 2004-02-02 05:05 am UTC (link)
	Her Seishirou's a pussy. My Seishirou can totally beat up her Seishirou! NYAAAH! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-02-03 07:45 pm UTC (link)
	My Subaru can beat up her Seishirou. Which is saying something ^_~ -Beth (Reply to this)(Parent)

	muzivitch 2004-02-02 04:45 am UTC (link)
	They did things to Yuuto that made me want to throw things. And I thought I was being forgiving, as Yuuto wasn't exactly the most well-developed of characters to begin with. But I take exception to my blond darling being used as cannon fodder. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iczer6 2004-02-02 04:53 am UTC (link)
	I'm waiting for the inevitable wank that will happen when someone criticises the Arcane fic. It'll be beautiful... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	shoiryu 2004-02-02 05:04 am UTC (link)
	AND SOMEHOW THEY'RE ALL /RELATED/! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Weird Science iczer6 2004-02-02 01:56 am UTC (link)
	There's just something about a webcomic switching formats to text, and said text being written by BNF's that just seems oddly wrong in a way. Like throwing water on a grease fire, it might seem like a good idea at the time, but in the end all you'll end up with is third degree burns. Okay bad analogy there. Little help? (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Weird Science

starza
2004-02-02 08:09 am UTC (link)

I think the person who did this comic gave it specifically to them because they're friends, really. Never followed Arcana, but the same person who drew this also was making a doujinshi version of Kouri's Yami fic, Live Through. Goodness knows if she'll finish it now.

I don't know, while it's good on one hand it's being continued, I have a feeling this WILL probably backfire, especially with hardcore fans. It actually might be better if the artist leaves it or draws one 'final' issue.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Weird Science rinoared 2004-02-02 10:16 am UTC (link)
	How about... like shoveling big giant heaps of snow on a cold winter morning when you don't really have to and have a previous history of heart palpitation and a scheduled time for a heart bypass? It might be done in good intentions but in the end there'll be a call for the waahmbulance ^_~ (Reply to this)(Parent)

gaisce
2004-02-02 02:01 am UTC (link)

...I love how they compare the flaws of the work to Boy Meets Boy, which has in no way whatsoever been wanky about anything like poor widdle Arcana. All comics, if they are popular enough, will displease certain fans. It is the law of fandom. The wank comes in when someone feels that they are "entitled" to something, be it creator, contributer or fan. But at least this one gives us great lines like: "If you think we suck like a two dollar whore in a dirty back alley, then just say so..."

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	big_bad_wolf 2004-02-02 11:17 am UTC (link)
	That's what pissed me off, too. It's like, don't use other artists as a stick to beat the creator with. (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2004-02-02 09:06 am UTC (link)

*groans* You know, I have to say, I've been watching f_w for a while now, and refraining from any reactions in the spirit of, well... uch...let me get backto you on that one.
But seriously, this wank is just...Yes, I will agree with that the talent of the two writers is "questionable" at best. Poorly-constructed sentences, bad and very flat characterizations, a severe lack of any distinctly entertaining plotline - yes, yes, all there.
But, well, it's very unfair to treat the artist like that. As someone who also had a webcomic on, at one point, I can safely assure everyone that, while it's not immense work and it can be indeed handled in a few days the upload, it's still a good time consumer.
No artist enjoys having to renounce a project, and it's rude at best to claim that the artist is disconsiderate towards the reader - as if the girl's intentions from the beginning had been "Oh, gee, let me discontinue my work to see how many angry fangirls I get". I'm pretty sure it wasn't anything like that, and that Kelly's having a bad time on her own right.
*sigh* Sorry for the intrustion, but...I don't know. Their accusations are simply unfair. As said before, yes, I would know.

(Reply to this)

thwackboom
2004-02-02 09:45 am UTC (link)

Heh. The BMB comparison is absolutely silly, at least to one who has looked at both comics. While I enjoy them both very much, and BMB took enough work as it was, the cging for most of the pages of Arcana must have been crazy with the time consuming. Makes me wonder how the brains of these people work. Or how they work at all.
I pity the woefully underrecompensed (is that a word?) lives of webcomic artists.

I don't HAVE to make sense. It's almost 3 in the morning.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	rinoared 2004-02-02 10:03 am UTC (link)
	I can agree with that. I used to watch BMB too, but comparing it to Arcana? Haha. Black and white three-panel strip as time consuming as a big page of CG-ed manga style comic? More haha. This coming from someone with no artistic talent at all, so you may whack me over the head on how omg hard it is to draw b&w and how cg is sooooo liek easy and cheap!!1 (Reply to this)(Parent)

bloodysakura
2004-02-03 04:56 am UTC (link)

Dude! It's X wank trying to be something else! Awww, innit cute? So I guess part of how the fandom stays alive is that it transmutates into something different, like this, so it can wank under an assumed name.

...and I need to lay off the Pepsi.

But after reading all the bitching and complaining, I think the bottom line is this: It's Kelly's comic, she can do whatever she damn well pleases with it because she's not a professional and isn't getting paid for this. Granted, I'm a bit bummed that I'm not going to get to find out what happens to Vincent (oh pretty, pretty Vincent!) and Holden, but that's just life.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	shirou 2004-02-03 10:05 pm UTC (link)
	Yes, the wank stays alive by spreading all over the place, but the fandom itself is actually still quite lovely. Believe me, X fandom is not as bad as GW or some other fandoms, and when there aren't flame wars going on, everything is pretty cool. At least in my opinion. n.n -Mara (moonything) (Reply to this)(Parent)