eljuno
2004-02-02 07:19 am UTC (link)

In most societies, a man is measured by his dick size. If the angels don't have a dick they are sure as hell not male. The only think that distinguish ultra femme bishounen from a woman is the dick. The genderless angels should be women. Why should they become male if they don't have a penis? UH!

STABSTABSTABSTABBITYFUCKINGSTAB!!!

*Rubs temples*

I'm alright. I'm alright. I'm alright.

don't have a dick they are sure as hell not male.

STABSTABSTABSTABSTABSTABSTABSTABSTAB!!!!!!

ARGHHHHHH!!!!

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	smo 2004-02-02 12:53 pm UTC (link)
	You want I should take them out? I know people who know people. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	panthea 2004-02-02 05:00 pm UTC (link)
	Not to mention the assertion that the only thing that makes a woman is a lack of a penis. Not, y'know, a vagina or a uterus or anything. TEH PENIS IS SUPERIOR! Ugh. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sarajayechan 2004-02-02 05:20 pm UTC (link)
	BOW TO TEH ALMIGHTY PENIS!!!!?!!11!~!!!1111fourtytwosixsixsix :P (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	panthea 2004-02-02 07:09 pm UTC (link)
	The power of porn commands you! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sarajayechan 2004-02-02 09:55 pm UTC (link)
	XD Oh, and you used my icon! feels loved (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iczer6 2004-02-02 07:24 am UTC (link)
	I was a bit annoyed at TPs translation as well, mainly because it really didn't make sense to me. Like you said they don't seem to have a problem with the 'hot man love' since they brought over FAKE and Gravi, so I really don't understand why they decided to make some of the characters female. Perhaps they were aiming for a younger auidence with the series? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	hoshimaru 2004-02-02 07:36 am UTC (link)
	I think the only thing that really bothered me about the Wish translation was that they translated Hisui's honorific as "Madam." For some reason that made me thing of brothels. Prostitution!Hisui is too much for my brain to handle. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sarajayechan 2004-02-02 07:39 am UTC (link)
	Hisui and prostitution does not compute. x.x ("Lady" or "Miss" woulda worked better there. :P) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sarajayechan 2004-02-02 07:37 am UTC (link)
	I think they had trouble with the idea of translating genderless pronouns, and didn't want to keep referring to the angels at "it". So when they were deciding what gender to stick with they flipped a coin. n.n; (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kyuuketsukirui 2004-02-02 07:46 am UTC (link)
	Seems the most likely explanation to me. (Reply to this)(Parent)

aloysius
2004-02-02 11:31 am UTC (link)

Whether "some of the characters" are female or male depends on interpretation, I think. I don't mind yaoi one bit, but when I read the first volume of Wish in Japanese, I thought Kohaku was a girl. I later discovered that some people (like the woman quoted in the link) think this manga is shonen-ai and went WTF?!

(And before anyone tells me this, no, it has nothing to do with my Japanese comprehension.)

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smo
2004-02-02 12:57 pm UTC (link)

Well, even in the manga, Kohaku gets looks from both men and women when she walks down the street, and one of them even remarks that she's hot no matter what gender she is.

And anyway, even if Tokyopop did censor TEH GAY LUV in re: Kohaku/Shuichiro, they've still got the devils all boffing each other and having threesomes with cat girls, so what are they bitching about? I mean, it's CLAMP, for fuck's sake. Need I say more?

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	aloysius 2004-02-02 02:17 pm UTC (link)
	Didn't the boys oogling her wonder if she was a girl or a boy only when she began to read halfway-pornographic magazines? (I really only read it once because I couldn't stand it, so I might be wrong.) But yeah, it's CLAMP. Amen to that. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	smo 2004-02-02 05:05 pm UTC (link)
	Didn't the boys oogling her wonder if she was a girl or a boy only when she began to read halfway-pornographic magazines? Yeah, I think so. Heh. That was a funny scene. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sarajayechan 2004-02-03 06:49 am UTC (link)
	I don't remember that, but it has been awhile since I've read the manga... I do remember that being a Chii thing in Chobits, reading the porn mags and people looking at her. XD (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	smo 2004-02-03 05:08 pm UTC (link)
	People thought Chii was a boy? mind breaks (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sarajayechan 2004-02-04 06:04 am UTC (link)
	No, I meant the "people staring at her looking at porn" thing. ^^; Sorry, I musta been confused/missed the "they wondered if it was a boy or a girl". (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	smo 2004-02-04 06:08 pm UTC (link)
	Ahh, okay. Yeah, I guess that would make them stare, regardless of gender. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sarajayechan 2004-02-02 05:21 pm UTC (link)
	I know! They didn't remove the "Kouryuu and Kokuyo boffed" part of the plot. :P "You've been with ME!"-Kouryuu. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ecchaniz0r 2004-02-03 06:25 pm UTC (link)
	w0rd. No one can accuse Tokyopop of ph33ring the gh3i. I think they just went by which gender Hisui and Kohakur most resembled. (I personally cannot picture Kohaku as a guy. He's too FLOUNCY and SPARKLY and AAAAGH THE CUTE THE CUTE and frankly seeing a guy do that would make my head explode.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ecchaniz0r 2004-02-03 06:28 pm UTC (link)
	(kills random R after that first Kohaku) Where the shit. I hate this keyboard. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	smo 2004-02-03 09:32 pm UTC (link)
	He's too FLOUNCY and SPARKLY and AAAAGH THE CUTE THE CUTE and frankly seeing a guy do that would make my head explode. Oh, I dunno. Kamatari did it pretty well in RK. ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sarajayechan 2004-02-04 06:08 am UTC (link)
	I have a hard time seeing Kohaku as a girl. I also don't see it as a guy. But, in the end, it sorta alternates. ^_^; (Reply to this)(Parent)

theartema
2004-02-02 07:31 am UTC (link)

-eyes the two volumes of translated Wish on her shelves-

Oh please. Aren't angels supposed to be genderless anyway?

TP used female pronouns for Kohaku, but really, I didn't consider the angel any gender. Guy, girl, s'all good. ^_^

Maybe it's because I'm used to seeing pretty guys. Kohaku didn't faze me in the least.

And despite CLAMP's greatness, the last two books were so cliche and boring anyway. I didn't stop purchasing them because 'omg tehy made Kohaku a girl!11!'.

~~Mokona beats down Mick for m4d 4rt skillz anyhow.~~

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	eiviiaru 2004-02-02 08:31 am UTC (link)
	Bets that some other group (het authors? Yuri authors?!) would have wanked hard had they translated the genderless angels as male? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	rann 2004-02-02 09:12 am UTC (link)
	(Correcting something...) Well, I always assumed they were males, from what I'd seen of the series. Though, there are some portrayals of angels as being, rather than genderless, hermaphroditic. And that -so- works for me. n.- (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kannaophelia 2004-02-02 03:28 pm UTC (link)
	Nothing compared to the wanking if they'd gone eeny-meeny-miny-mo on the gender assignment. I'm still puzzling out how genderless beings in love equals yaoi, but there you go. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

eiviiaru
2004-02-02 08:31 pm UTC (link)

I'm still puzzling out how genderless beings in love equals yaoi, but there you go.

My call is that it has something to do with the assumption that androgyny = male in anime -- given that there are at least a few big yaoi couples which are essentially genderless males, I guess it's easier to see. Of course, I do not channel the Great Yaoi Fangirl in the Sky, so caveat wanker.

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	sarajayechan 2004-02-02 10:05 pm UTC (link)
	I blame Sailormoon and Fushigi Yuugi for this trend. :P I love FY, and I'll always have a soft spot for SM, but... (Reply to this)(Parent)

virago
2004-02-02 04:20 pm UTC (link)

What part of "genderless" do you not understand? ARGH!!!

It annoys me that they Rorshach it into TEH BIG YAOI LUV, because that's what they want to see. My wankiest side has to wonder if that's a way to justify it to themselves. "I like this pairing, but I don't have a convenient stereotype for it. OMG it must be yaoi because het and femslash are eeeevil."

I do wish English had some respectful gender-neutral singular pronouns, though. I mean, beyond cases of ambiguity, it's just a practical thing to have around.

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	edward_hyde 2004-02-02 04:31 pm UTC (link)
	I, too, wish for respectful gender-neutral singular pronouns. I have a number of characters in my original fiction who are technically genderless, and it grates on my nerves sometimes to still have to refer to them as 'he' or 'she'. We should start a petition. XD (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sarajayechan 2004-02-02 05:24 pm UTC (link)
	I know. :P And the thing is, if I wanted to write Hisui/Kokuyo it'd have to be from a first-person Hisui perspective, cause I couldn't decide whether to refer to it as he, she, or employ random Japanese genderless pronouns! :P (Reply to this)(Parent)

	yadda 2004-02-02 09:23 pm UTC (link)
	I want an official (and not insulting) genderless pronoun so the abuse of using "they" for a singular but unknown person will stop. Gah, makes me twitch every time. Please, think of the third person plural pronouns. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	eljuno 2004-02-02 09:43 pm UTC (link)
	The abuse of "they" is yet ANOTHER reason I like "ey" so damned much. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	eljuno 2004-02-02 09:42 pm UTC (link)
	My favorite choice for gender-neutral pronouns is the "Ey" set. Ey, eir, em, eir's, ey're... It's simple (just take "they" and drop the "th") follows a standard set in English, and doesn't include wierd letters ("Zie" is quite well liked in some circles, but I think it'd fail, given the fact that English speakers aren't that used to the letter "Z".) </ geek > (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2004-02-02 09:27 pm UTC (link)

The "Wish" wank-age always annoyed me. The angels/devils are genderless (they are not all guys, hence, not shonen-ai). English doesn't have any genderless pronouns aside from "it" (I think VIZ talked about that in the editor's notes for Fushigi Yugi or something), so they have to choose a gender-identifier, at least. Personally, I think they did okay. I would never, ever believe Hisui or Kohaku as males. I just don't see it.

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	sarajayechan 2004-02-02 10:02 pm UTC (link)
	I can sorta understand people seeing Hisui as female, because Hisui LOOKS it. But Ransho and Ryuuki look rather masculine to me, and Kohaku and Touki could go either way, really. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	phosfate 2004-02-02 11:20 pm UTC (link)
	I had no idea. It never occurred to me - Kohaku isn't pretty enough to be a CLAMP guy. ducks (Reply to this)(Thread)

	puipui 2004-02-03 10:03 am UTC (link)
	dies like Kotori getting her head chopped off for the fifty-millionth time (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	smo 2004-02-03 09:36 pm UTC (link)
	Fuma, you ~~sexy~~ BASTIGE! (Reply to this)(Parent)