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Erik ([info]erik) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2004-02-09 16:27:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Beware the Fandom of the Opera...
Actually this one's pretty old, as I usually steer well clear of Phantom of the Opera message boards.

Background: A movie version of Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical is slated to come out in December; many fans are up in arms at his casting of Gerard Butler--who has almost no previous musical experience--as the Phantom over Michael Crawford, who played everyone's favourite masked psycho in the original production and whose spectacular voice graces the original cast recording. The only problem is that Joel Schumaker is shooting for a 'young, sexy' look, and Mr. Crawford is in his sixties and his voice and acting talent are deteriorating. Despite this, there is a large mob of angry fans who want him back.

Cut to the Musicals.net Phantom of the Opera message board, where GungaDin posts a thread in defense of Gerard Butler.

After a bit of honest discussion on the subject of Gerry Butler's voice training, or lack thereof, MrsJemimaMistoffelees compares it to Chicago:

But look at Renee Zellweger in Chicago. She admitted that she had never had a singing lesson, and a lot of people think she was the best thing about the movie.

La Boheme retorts:
you are referring, of course, to the blind/deaf people who saw it I assume?

The OP drags Michael Crawford into it for no apparent reason, simultaneously taking a potshot at the quality of voice needed for the role:
I agree w/ MrsJ's example. My father who doesn't care for musicals, was totally taken by Renee, thinking she was even better than Catherine Z-J!! BTW, did the Phantom/Erik take singing lessons in that he has to sound beautiful? No, if anything, because he is living in those dank sewers and doesn't talk to anybody else, then he would have a very rough, raspy voice.
Spoilsports, please, MC is history. Move on...

(oh, it's a pity, the formatting is lost... think big blue text on the last line)

Gunga is told to shut up, and JuanDonSupreme elaborates.
Would you please show me where we mentioned MC in this thread? If you were thinking of my post where I said that "Yeah, but.... Butler training his voice for a couple months before shooting a film can't hold a candle to an actor who has trained his voice for years... "
I WAS NOT referring to MC... B/C I personally believe there are Phantoms out there that are a whole lot better. I was simply talking about an actor who has had training....
Please, the MC thing is over, we all have moved on, and I am honestly tired of seeing you post about it so much...
NotoriousFunnt was right... please MOVE ON!

Gunga's scathing retort, in BIG BAD BOLD FONT SIZE=6 PRINT:
NotoriousFUnnt -
F*CK U, DICKW*D!!

O.G. tells him to stop acting like a kindergartener. Gunga sulks and brings in unrelated topics of controversy:
Uhmmm, I haven't checked kindergarten levels lately, but I think my choice words for notorious putz are not theirs. Now, not unless that's what they're teaching in France after banning all sorts of identifiable religious symbols in school. (BTW, I agree with that. What's with the scarves and yamulkes? What if I cme to school with a chainsaw and said that was part of my religion? Now...there's an idea.. )

I don't know about you and Michael jackson, but kindergarteners aren't my type, OG.

Jaded Mandarin gets it back to Michael Crawford. Again.
This fight seems to have got started over Crawford...
I personally don't want Michael Crawford in the role.
If his later recordings are anything to go by, his voice HAS aged quite significantly...
Also, I read an article about how his inflated ego helped bring Jim Steinman's goth-rock masterpiece "Dance Of The Vampires" into ruin on Broadway - insisting that Steinman's serious, romantic rock opera be transformed into a Mel Brooks style camp comedy.
No one with such a disrespect for mad-genius Steinman is OK in my book. Serves him right for his awful behavior on the set of "Vampires" that he's been passed over for the "Phantom" movie.

Following are several kerfluffles about whether the Phantom traditionally has the "weakest" voice of the leading trio, Crysania revisits Gunga's sewer comment, and people argue almost politely over their preferences as to how the Phantom should sing. Yawn. It's mediocre wank, I admit, but it amuses me.

I leave you with an entry from the Michael Crawford Phantom Movie Campaign Guestbook:

I have listened to Michael Crawford sing the hypnotizing, extravigant, enchanting role of the Phantom of The Opera ever since I was a little girl. I still listen to him sing every day. I someday want to light up the stage by playing the role of Christine. I would be very proud to say that I am a Phan of The Phantom of the Opera itself. But to not have Michael Crawford in the movie would be an act of stupidity. Who else could sing such a part? NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!! Michael Crawford was the original Phantom. He should do the movie. Who cares who else wants to do it? He should be the Phantom. Wait, rephrase that last sentence. He IS the Phantom! Anyone who thinks otherwise, look out. Andrew Lloyd Webber, I am a fan of your work, but if you do not put Michael Crawford in AS THE PHANTOM, say bye-bye to one of your fans (that fan you are saying bye-bye to is me, if you can't figure it out).-Carlye (PS-I think that Christine made a big mistake when she loved Raoul instead of the Phantom. Who could pass him by with a voice like that?!"

Hi again! I know that I have already written an entry, but I have to write another one. Here it goes: I have just read the maybe script for the movie and it made me cry. I am still crying right now. I now know how the Phantom feels. It is not easy to be left out. Michael Crawford is the right man for the role of the Phantom. I won't go see it without him. I MIGHT rent it when it comes out, but I will only go see it about six times in the theater, buy it, and watch it for the rest of my life IF Michael Crawford is in it and that is a promise I intend to keep. WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED!!!!!!!!!!!


(Post a new comment)


[info]kijikun
2004-02-10 12:12 am UTC (link)
Sure it be great to have Micheal in the role but if he's not up to it...age and voice wise. People seem to forget that alot of actor having muscial traning and do have wonderful voices. It used to be that most classical trained actors took voice lessions if I remeber some of my cinimaic history correct.

I wonder if when My Fair lady was made if there had been internet would the wank have read the same?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]kindest_demon
2004-02-10 01:23 am UTC (link)
My Fair Lady didn't need the internet to be wanky; Julie Andrews vs. Audrey Hepburn and Rex "what, me, sing?" Harrison stirred up wank in the old-fashioned print forums.

*sighs* Those were the days. You had to walk for your wank, y'know. ;)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]telesilla, 2004-02-10 01:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eag, 2004-02-10 01:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-02-10 05:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eag, 2004-02-10 07:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-02-10 02:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eag, 2004-02-10 06:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-02-10 06:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eag, 2004-02-11 12:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2004-02-10 06:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-02-10 06:51 pm UTC
Re: - [info]ecchaniz0r, 2004-02-10 08:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-02-10 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rinoared, 2004-02-10 10:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-02-10 11:02 pm UTC
Re: - [info]kindest_demon, 2004-02-11 05:34 am UTC
Re: - [info]kindest_demon, 2004-02-11 05:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pipssister, 2004-02-10 01:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kijikun, 2004-02-10 01:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]singe, 2004-02-10 05:00 am UTC
Re: - [info]kindest_demon, 2004-02-11 05:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maruchina, 2004-02-12 03:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dominonermandi, 2004-02-12 03:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maruchina, 2004-02-12 03:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dominonermandi, 2004-02-12 03:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maruchina, 2004-02-12 03:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dominonermandi, 2004-02-12 03:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maruchina, 2004-02-12 03:32 am UTC

[info]cleolinda
2004-02-10 01:20 am UTC (link)
I will only go see it about six times in the theater, buy it, and watch it for the rest of my life IF Michael Crawford is in it and that is a promise I intend to keep. WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED!!!!!!!!!!!

People. It's time to take a deep breath... and let go.

*polishes new Movie!Christine icon*



(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]musette
2004-02-11 05:47 am UTC (link)
*dies* Oh my god that icon, I am in love.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2004-02-11 06:12 am UTC
Re: - [info]musette, 2004-02-11 06:56 am UTC

[info]rhi_silverflame
2004-02-10 01:20 am UTC (link)
*twitch* Phandom scares me. This is why I stay out of it -- I tried being on one of the POTO lists several times, and kept leaving because of the wank.

And I realize this is absolute POTO heresy to say this, but I was never a fan of Michael Crawford as the Phantom . . . I have loyalties to Davis Gaines, because he was the first Phantom I saw (and yes, I'd memorized the cast recording by then) as well as the one in the touring company I worked for.

And if I may join in the wank for just a brief moment . . . who is this Gerard Butler guy? I want Davis. :P

'kay, moment over. But I love your icon. ^_^ And I suppose the "Fandom of the Opera" pun was an inevitability.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]kindest_demon
2004-02-10 01:25 am UTC (link)
Marek from Timeline; he was in the second Tomd Raider and Reign of Fire as well.

Not exactly Olivier, one might surmise, but he is pretty. =)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]erik, 2004-02-10 01:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sesana, 2004-02-10 03:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-10 06:57 am UTC
Re: - [info]kindest_demon, 2004-02-11 05:50 am UTC

[info]glomobius
2004-02-10 02:24 am UTC (link)
Colm Wilkinson will always be my god! ^__^;

~glo

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]amand_r, 2004-02-10 03:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glomobius, 2004-02-10 05:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-10 04:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]glomobius, 2004-02-10 05:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]musette, 2004-02-11 05:50 am UTC

[info]musette
2004-02-11 05:49 am UTC (link)
I seriously am in love with you for saying that. Davis Gaines was freaking amazing the couple times I saw him, and he's an exceptionally nice guy despite having been stalked and tormented and all sorts of other shite. I was petrified they'd give in and cast MC and then I'd have to wretch repeatedly.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]darkrose
2004-02-10 01:23 am UTC (link)
I will always love MC in that role. However, even twelve years ago, he was having trouble hitting high notes. Deal, people--sheesh!

Is anyone upset that Squeaky Sarah Brightman isn't playing Christine?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]erik
2004-02-10 01:29 am UTC (link)
Not particularly, as far as I can tell--the only time anyone got wanky over her was when someone jokingly suggested she play Carlotta (better than Minnie Driver... ugh, they had to dub her). I've never seen her perform, but I've heard that her acting is terrible.

I really doubted that a Broadway actor would play a lead in the movie anyway. They're completely different mediums...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]glomobius, 2004-02-10 02:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2004-02-10 07:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]musette, 2004-02-11 05:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-11 07:31 am UTC
Re: - [info]musette, 2004-02-11 07:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-11 07:45 am UTC
Re: - [info]musette, 2004-02-11 08:09 am UTC

[info]rhi_silverflame
2004-02-10 04:59 am UTC (link)
Is anyone upset that Squeaky Sarah Brightman isn't playing Christine?

That woman scares the hell out of me. Safe to say I'm NOT upset. Dale Kristien will always be my Christine. :) But you know, I'm not gonna go into a screaming weepy rage or anything over it. :P

And yeah . . . I remember the wank over Anthony Crivello reprising his role as Enjolras in the Les Mis Tenth Anniversary Concert, for the very reason that he couldn't hit all his high notes any more, and everybody had wanted Anthony Warlow to play the role instead. So you can bet your ass that had Michael Crawford indeed been cast in the movie, a different set of Phans would be wanking all over the place ANYWAY. It's a no-win situation.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]esseilte, 2004-02-10 11:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esseilte, 2004-02-10 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-11 04:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]musette, 2004-02-11 05:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-12 08:36 am UTC
Re: - [info]musette, 2004-02-12 10:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaina, 2004-02-11 03:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beethoven, 2004-02-11 07:49 am UTC

[info]smo
2004-02-10 02:00 am UTC (link)
I guiltily love dislike Joel Schumacher's movies. They are fun stupid crap with Kiefer lots of pretty faces, and that's about it but oh, what an it it is.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


allen
2004-02-10 03:57 am UTC (link)
Flatliners is still one of my favorites, all these years later.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-02-10 04:03 am UTC
(no subject) - allen, 2004-02-10 04:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-02-10 05:30 am UTC

[info]dandywolves
2004-02-10 02:01 am UTC (link)
musicals.net is just one giant cesspool of wank. I try to stay away from it.
ALW wank is inevitable in any musical theatre fandom, though. it's fun when people start comparing him to sondheim.
personally, I despise ALW.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]livviebway, 2004-02-10 05:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2004-02-10 07:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2004-02-10 07:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]musette, 2004-02-11 05:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kannaophelia, 2004-02-10 04:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jezrana, 2004-02-10 09:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]belafarinrod, 2004-02-10 11:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]esseilte, 2004-02-10 11:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-11 04:18 am UTC

[info]jezrana
2004-02-10 02:24 am UTC (link)
Yeesh. I love Michael Crawford on the original cast recording, and I'm sorry I never got to see him perform the role, but I'm not going to boycott the movie for not using him. He was a great Phantom, but he's not the Phantom. Lots of other people have played the role on Broadway, I don't see why the movie's something to get wanky over.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]elvesdoit, 2004-02-10 04:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jezrana, 2004-02-10 09:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-11 04:19 am UTC

[info]xylona
2004-02-10 02:27 am UTC (link)
Good lord. Nice to see that some things haven't changed since I left the fandom five years ago -- no, wait, it has. I don't see any of the no-movie-at-all folks in your listing. :) Ah, the bad good old days, when there was a running low-grade flame war on the mailing list about Michael Crawford vs. Colm Wilkinson...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

We all *know* who the better man is... - [info]glomobius, 2004-02-10 02:29 am UTC
Pbbbbtth. - [info]xylona, 2004-02-10 05:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mustbebunnies, 2004-02-10 04:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xylona, 2004-02-10 05:15 am UTC
Icon worship - [info]smo, 2004-02-10 05:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]musette, 2004-02-11 05:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-11 07:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]littlekitsch, 2004-02-10 05:32 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2004-02-10 03:58 am UTC (link)
Come on, don't they remember the old days of wank, when most of us dreaded Antonio Banderas being cast? Whoever this guy is, he's got to be more appropriate.

(And as for the person who thinks the Phantom should have a lousy voice, huh? Have they ever read the book or seen the show? The entire premise falls apart if the Phantom can't sing.)

Mmm, Phandom. I'm so glad to be out of it.

-Carmarthen

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]erik, 2004-02-10 04:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-10 05:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2004-02-10 07:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]virago, 2004-02-10 04:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]erik, 2004-02-10 10:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-02-10 11:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-11 04:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]virago, 2004-02-11 05:20 pm UTC

[info]rogue
2004-02-10 06:39 am UTC (link)
Uhm, it's Joel Schumaker. Joel "Batman And Robin" Schumaker. Joel "Everything I Tough Turns To Utter Shit" Schumaker. Why worry over casting? Save yourselves the trouble and start sending Joel "fan letters" laced with anthrax. Gotta do it before they start filming, though - even if they only get a quarter of it done, they'll just edit those scenes in a million times and release it anyway.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rann, 2004-02-10 02:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]elvesdoit, 2004-02-10 04:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2004-02-10 07:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pipssister, 2004-02-11 07:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rogue, 2004-02-11 07:29 am UTC
Re: - [info]pipssister, 2004-02-11 07:55 am UTC

[info]rann
2004-02-10 02:27 pm UTC (link)
"Why can't we get Dirk Richter? All I'm saying is, I think the kids would want to see the original Radioactive Man!"
"For the last time, he's 63 years old and he's -dead-!"

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2004-02-10 08:51 pm UTC (link)
Does it really matter when the movie's bound to be the ubersuck anyway?

They cast someone from BROOKSIDE. Jennifer Ellison's only talent is having huge breasts - she can't sing or dance or act, and when she's playing a ballerina, I'd say that was pretty damn important.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-11 04:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rogue, 2004-02-11 04:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-02-11 04:52 am UTC

[info]musette
2004-02-11 06:01 am UTC (link)
m.net AND the Michael Mafia AND "teh one troo Phantom" wank, this is truly an auspicious day. All I have to say is bitch, please. But then again, unless it's Brad Little or Davis Gaines, I really don't give two shits, so long as Raoul's hot.

(Reply to this)


[info]froda_baggins
2004-02-11 09:15 am UTC (link)
O.o

I didn't even know Phantom *had* a fandom.

*Wonders where she's been the past few years*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2004-02-11 05:10 pm UTC
Re: - [info]froda_baggins, 2004-02-11 05:16 pm UTC
Rule 1 of the internet. - [info]virago, 2004-02-11 05:23 pm UTC
Re: Rule 1 of the internet. - [info]froda_baggins, 2004-02-11 05:29 pm UTC

[info]also_not_a_pipe
2004-02-11 03:56 pm UTC (link)
Oh, dear god. ALW has unlocked the secret of perpetual wank. This same one has been chugging along for nearly twenty years now. Granted, it is a fairly wanky show to begin with, but still... Webber, you magnificent bastard.

Personally, I've always been of the opinion that the movie shouldn't be made at all (just this weekend I found at the back of my closet one of the "No Phantom movie!" signs a friend and I made for a "protest" back in 1989). Stage musicals don't translate well to the screen. They're two different mediums, and what works in one seems absurd in the other. And Joel Schumacher, ugh. No.

I hate to agree with a wanker , but Gunga's right: the people who get so het up about this need to shut up and move on.

(Reply to this)


[info]misswindy
2004-02-11 08:16 pm UTC (link)
This is fabulous!

And the title of the wank? *dies laughing*

PS. Renee Zellwegger should never sing in public again.

(Reply to this)


[info]isntitironic
2004-02-11 08:24 pm UTC (link)
Did somebody say Gerard Butler?

*puts movie on 'to-see list'*

Shallow and proud. ^_^

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lannamichaels, 2004-02-15 08:55 am UTC

 
   
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