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	(Anonymous) 2004-03-02 09:22 pm UTC (link)
	Or the more than hundreds of wankers that just visit haven and don't post... Which is worse? sybil aka haven mod (Reply to this)(Thread)

rubytramp
2004-03-02 11:57 pm UTC (link)

Syb, I'm not pointing and laughing at all the denizens of the Haven in this post. (Although I fully admit I have, and will continue to do so in the future because it's a pretty funny place - especially the spoiler folder) I'm pointing and laughing at those who organized and contributed to this silly fan campaign. You yourself don't want the Haven to be associated with it - if I were you (and the other mods) I wouldn't want to be associated with it either. It smells like a scam (the $1,800 donated by a new poster) or a silly idea that will go nowhere. It's been pointed out here and elsewhere that The Hollywood Reporter isn't even the proper place to post such an advertisement. If the people who organized it knew anything about Hollywood they would have printed it in Variety or in some other industry paper which would be read by more people in, well, the industry.

So please don't take my wank reportage personally. In fact it might be useful to the mods of the Haven to take into account that there are lots of folks like me who lurk and are pretty amazed (and not in a good way) at what goes down there.

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(Anonymous)
2004-03-03 03:25 am UTC (link)

Oh I am not annoyed. It was a public post. I just find it somewhat sad that so many people say they hate haven and yet can't stay away. It is one thing to see stoopid posts cuz the person is there anyway and apart of the community, another all together to waste time going somewhere they can't stand to see more of what they can't stand. But hey people stop to watch car accidents so whatever floats your boat.

So please don't take my wank reportage personally. In fact it might be useful to the mods of the Haven to take into account that there are lots of folks like me who lurk and are pretty amazed (and not in a good way) at what goes down there.

No I don't take it personally. What would you have us do? Ban everyone that another person thought that their idea's were stupid? There would be no one left. There is at least one person that thinks everyone is stupid.

Who makes the call what is a worthy post or not? Hell there is penty that goes on that I roll my eyes at but if another X amount of people are enjoying themselves and not hurting anyone - have at it.

Do I think the ad is going to do any good? Nope - but that is me, myself and I - so I didn't send them money. Do I hope they get to do it - sure. It affects me not.

Haven is what it is. And many people enjoy it. A few more than post there than 60. Many people don't, that is ok, it is a big internet. They can find a message board they feel is smart, amusing, meets their needs or whatever.

There is no way for us to make haven meet everyones needs. We have too much control over what is posted. We don't have enough control over what is posted. It is too much of a next gen board. Only shippers go to haven. Shippers aren't welcomed at haven anymore. Haven is just a 'classic' fan site. GA is hated at haven. DD is hated at haven. RP is hated at haven. The fic is all porn. The fic doesn't have enough smut. Only the 'big' authors in fandom are liked there. There are too many newbie authors at haven.

I have heard it all. We do the best we can and it is all we can do. LOL not that I think that anyone on this site cares about that.

so wank on...

sybil aka redwyne aka haven mod

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kristenk2
2004-03-03 04:09 am UTC (link)

I just find it somewhat sad that so many people say they hate haven and yet can't stay away.

Many people don't, that is ok, it is a big internet. They can find a message board they feel is smart, amusing, meets their needs or whatever.

Why else do you think Rubytramp posted this here, and not the Haven?

Sybil, you've said it yourself: you can't control if people like the Haven or not, and you yourself roll at your eyes at some of what gets posted there. This community is for laughing at people on other boards/journals/whatever making asses of themselves, so I don't know why you'd be saddened to find people laughing at the Haven here, or why you would even bother trying to defend it here. You're not going to change anyone's mind about the relative "goodness" of the Haven.

Hmmm...what was it you said to me when we talked about the Haven last? Oh yeah, I said it was an MSR-centric board, and it seemed stupid of me continually post about other characters since no one there really gave a rat's ass about anyone but Mulder and Scully. And your reply was, "Well, you could, but you'd probably give yourself a migraine."

So...are you giving yourself a migraine now?

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(Anonymous)
2004-03-03 05:32 am UTC (link)

I completely didn't make my point... I ramble and misplace my point at times ;)

Sybil, you've said it yourself: you can't control if people like the Haven or not, and you yourself roll at your eyes at some of what gets posted there.
I don't care if people do or don't like haven, hell I understand why some don't. It is a whatever.

This community is for laughing at people on other boards/journals/whatever making asses of themselves, so I don't know why you'd be saddened to find people laughing at the Haven here,
I am not sad to see haven wanked here. As long as the posts are public they are open season. I meant I found it sad people went over to haven for no other reason to be annoyed and to decided if they think people are making asses of themselves. It is one thing if you are all ready there, apart of the community, and you post there. It just seems weird to me to get stressed out over things you could completely avoid. It isn't like the spoiler folder is over there randomly wanking people here, so people go look cuz it involves them.

But then what the hell would people wank in the xfiles fandom if people didn't randomly go to haven and the like. So again whatever.

or why you would even bother trying to defend it here. You're not going to change anyone's mind about the relative "goodness" of the Haven.
I am not defending haven. I am the last person to claim haven is all good or sweetness and light. I had a response to the post and figured it made more sense to post it here than go somewhere to talk about a thread here. Same reason I don't sock. If I have something to say, I say it. I didn't feel the need to hide it.

And honestly, if someone has an idea regarding haven, I am very interested. Hell I can't figure out how to solve it, maybe someone has a better idea.

But I think it all comes down to opinion. What one person thinks is someone showing their ass, others might not. Others might think people at fandom wank are showing their ass in public. It is all opinion and subjective. I certainly wasn't trying to change anyone's mind.

As you said wanking is what this site is for. And since I myself have posted here and am just as snarky if not more so than some people here, it would be some what stupid of me to be throwing stones.

LOL and no, I all ready had a migraine :)

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	*sigh* kristenk2 2004-03-03 06:26 am UTC (link)
	Like rubytramp, I'll let you have the last word, sybil. I don't know why I bothered trying again. You just reminded me of everything I don't like about the Haven. Kudos! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: *sigh*
(Anonymous)
2004-03-03 07:23 am UTC (link)

I'll let you have the last word, sybil.
If you say you are giving the other person the last word, aren't you in fact having the last word by saying so?

You just reminded me of everything I don't like about the Haven.
That it isn't a mirror of what you think. And doesn't assume you are 'showing your ass' because you disagree with his/her views.

Or the not bothering to read over their posts before hitting send and making way too many typos?

sybil

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phosfate
2004-03-03 04:37 pm UTC (link)

I meant I found it sad people went over to haven for no other reason to be annoyed and to decided if they think people are making asses of themselves. It is one thing if you are all ready there, apart of the community, and you post there. It just seems weird to me to get stressed out over things you could completely avoid.

You mean like the way you got stressed out by coming over here?

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	(Anonymous) 2004-03-03 10:30 pm UTC (link)
	You mean like the way you got stressed out by coming over here? nope because I am not stressed about it, enough people post on my lj about fandom wank I come look at their posts often and well the thread was emailed to me... But again I think my point was lost, only this time I don't think it was from lack of explaining. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	phosfate 2004-03-03 10:38 pm UTC (link)
	I'm sure that must be the reason. (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2004-03-03 05:47 am UTC (link)

Why else do you think Rubytramp posted this here, and not the Haven?

'Cause sometimes Fanfic Wank is just a wank all in itself, sometimes. Funny thing is, these posters don't seem to realize it. Kinda ironic, eh?

Some of the wanks here are great. Loonies and loony topics with crazy egos and outrageous behavior. People like Stormlantern/Nitejar would justifiably belong on these pages. But some of the posters here in Fandom Wank are only just engaging in schadenfreude of painfully earnest people, and that's kinda sad. It's then when the person who wanks is just as pathetic in their own way as what they are wanking.

--not Sybil

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	kristenk2 2004-03-03 06:28 am UTC (link)
	Oh, I know I'm being wanky by trying to talk to Sybil instead of just laughing at the Haven. But I'm bored this evening, and thought I'd bang my head against a brick wall for a while. Still bored, sadly. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-03-03 10:10 am UTC (link)
	Pardon my anonymity, but -- Faith! love! (Reply to this)(Parent)

rubytramp
2004-03-03 02:27 pm UTC (link)

But some of the posters here in Fandom Wank are only just engaging in schadenfreude of painfully earnest people, and that's kinda sad. It's then when the person who wanks is just as pathetic in their own way as what they are wanking.

As Syb herself said wank is as objective as anything else on the net. If I enjoy the schadenfreude with 'painfully earnest people' and see wank in it then that's just who I am and I will make no apologies for being that way.

A lot of these 'painfully earnest people' have wanked with the best of them including Phanta, Hester, Cow, and Pippy in fact a whole load of them are simply tin hats of the aforementioned wankers.

To me this is wank to others it may not be.

I rest my case and appeal to the judge and jury.

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	rubytramp 2004-03-03 04:25 pm UTC (link)
	And I meant 'subjective' not 'objective' and 'sock puppets' not 'tin hats' Teach me to post so early in the morning (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2004-03-03 10:32 pm UTC (link)

As Syb herself said wank is as objective as anything else on the net. If I enjoy the schadenfreude with 'painfully earnest people' and see wank in it then that's just who I am and I will make no apologies for being that way.

Yep, I completely agree with ruby here. Of course I also agree with anon that sometimes fandom wank is the wank.

I am just agreeable.

Sybil - remembering to sign my name

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rubytramp
2004-03-03 10:58 pm UTC (link)

And I agree with you on that point (that Fandom Wank is sometimes wank) Sybil. And I will be the first to admit that I have (and will in the future) wank.

So are we all friends (or at least not mad/offended) now?

BTW, if anybody finds themselves in the Columbus Circle subway station there are ads for the new Borders in the new scary!ass Time Warner Mall with big yellow forwardng change of address stickers on them with the names of different literary or cultural characters on them. The one at the 58th Street exit says:

Fox Mulder
10 Columbus Circle
New York, NY 10019

I had to laugh out loud when I saw it last night.

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(Anonymous)
2004-03-04 12:06 am UTC (link)

So are we all friends (or at least not mad/offended) now?

Well to tell the truth I wasn't offended and was never mad at you. I don't take the whole thing (fandom) seriously enough to get either. And I didn't take it personally, no clue if it was meant that way.

So yes, of course I am not mad at you. And as far as friends, if you find yourself in SA I would be more than happy to buy you a drink :).

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	rubytramp 2004-03-04 01:39 am UTC (link)
	Nope, never meant it personally. It's only the internet after all, and it's only a cancelled TV show. And if you are ever in NY I'll buy you a drink. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2004-03-04 01:00 am UTC (link)
	Thank the monkey the man did not move farther north! It was already a mess with girls and older women with way to much time on their hands trying to get into my offices when he was filming in the building. I think the last thing I would need to hear is a bunch of screams for BOB! at all hours of the night. Please! Keep the man down at Columbus Circle. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Heh rubytramp 2004-03-04 01:37 am UTC (link)
	Hey, we don't want him in Hell's Kitchen either! You think he'll stick to the upper west side? One can only pray. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Heh (Anonymous) 2004-03-04 01:58 am UTC (link)
	I'll let you know if I spot him above 110th St. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Heh rubytramp 2004-03-04 02:18 am UTC (link)
	I'm sure the monkey will watch over us both and protect us from that 'person' (Reply to this)(Parent)

kristenk2
2004-03-03 02:28 am UTC (link)

Granted this is just starting, I'm sure there will be loads of fun contributions from all over soon.

See, that's the one thing that irks me about the mods throwing them out on their collective ear; now I have to go LOOKING to watch the Ad Folks flail about and make jackasses of themselves! I am lazy -- leave the stupidity in a big lump where I can find it!

OTOH, I am so VASTLY amused that these idjits are too annoying even for the Spoilers Folder to put up with anymore.

P.S. I really should add you to my flist over on LJ. ;-) Do you have the same name there?

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	Sigh rubytramp 2004-03-03 03:45 am UTC (link)
	One can't win can one? I'll leave the last word to you Syb. Kristen - yes same name on LJ. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Sigh (Anonymous) 2004-03-03 03:58 am UTC (link)
	I'll leave the last word to you Syb. Sorry I wasn't trying to be a bitch, it was an honest question. If someone can tell me how to make everyone happy I would try. But damn if I can figure it out. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Sigh

rubytramp
2004-03-03 04:21 am UTC (link)

I know you weren't trying to be a bitch Syb. I'm I'm not trying to be one either - as Kristen says, I posted this here because, well, this is the place for posting about people who are making asses of themselves on other boards/LJ communities.

And frankly, you can't make everyone happy - which is why (IMHO) X-Files on-line fandom (and many others like it) fall apart once they get to be a certain size. There will always be differences of opinions , and sometimes these differences get out of hand. For instance, you all did a pretty good job of getting rid of Cow, but she still has her minions who post at Haven, you can't prevent stuff like this from happening and you can't make everyone happy.

You are just one person, just one small group of mods - it's so not worth beating yourself up about. For what it's worth I think you all do a pretty good job - better than Amy ever did. At least you got rid of most of the fanatics.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, my fandom is split into two groups - the bitter and the crazy, and never the twain shall meet.

I'm one of the bitter by the way. Could you tell?

Now, I'm gonna watch the rest of Kerry's speech with my overly political boyfriend and try to hope for the best. And then I'm going to bed - you all have a good night.

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	Re: Sigh kristenk2 2004-03-03 04:14 am UTC (link)
	Not really, but sometimes it's fun trying! ;-) You've been friended. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	soleta 2004-03-04 05:16 pm UTC (link)
	see, I wish there was one board for all the idiots. how cool would that be? It'd be like a wanky deathmatch; also, it'd be manna from heaven for us. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	thinkey 2004-03-03 03:49 pm UTC (link)
	headdesk I'm trying to debate which fandom i belong to is nuttier at this point, the icon arguing J/Cers or XF (Reply to this)

(Anonymous)
2004-03-03 11:53 pm UTC (link)

I have never ever seen this site before, but.... wow. lol. I have to admit this stuff is kind of funny. I mean, I am amused when I go on other sites and read things that are said about the haven. Everything from adoration to unadulterated hate. I have to wonder how a message board (I mean, it's ONLY a message board) can engender such violent emotional reactions in people. I'm not saying it's bad or good, but... why this fascination with The Haven? I've always been a bit baffled by it.

I mean I remember, back when I FIRST started modding, I got hate IMs from Cow. And it made me laugh because all I could think was, "man, it is JUST a message board. Don't you do other things? Don't you have outside interests?"

Anyway, I have to say that the ad campaign went the way of the dinosaur on haven for many of the reasons listed here.
1) we don't think Amy would go for it. 2) We have *NO* idea who Karcane is in real life and don't want the board held responsible if this turns out badly, or if we find out the money went somewhere else (god forbid)
and
3) this business with an $1800 donor was the last straw. It is fishy, to say the least. I mean, maybe it's legit, but if it's not? We are NOT going to deal with the backlash resulting from that. Between all the angry posters alone we'd have a board crash in under five minutes.

Anyway.... these posts are interesting. Also, RUBY -- do you live in NYC? Because I do, and I know EXACTLY what you're talking about at the Columbus Circle AOL building. That is one SCARY place. I'm supposed to attend a signing there March 12th and I have to say... I think that building is WAY overkill. But funny about the Mulder referenc. ;-)

---- J.L (UCFGuardgirl)

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rubytramp
2004-03-04 12:04 am UTC (link)

UFC, for me it all lies in the schadenfreude of lurking. And for me it's not only The Haven. As an Xphile the Haven was never for me (the first time I posted at the old boards about 4 years ago I was blasted by Cow as being a 'known DD hater' and condemned to hell for ever) I was more a FameTracker and TWoP/Mighty Big TV girl, simply because I revel in the schadenfreude of it all. Does that make me a bad person? A good person? I like to think I end up somewhere in the middle.

Anyway, hope that makes sense in a twisted, wankish sort of way.

And yes I live in Manhattan - I'm moving out of an apartment right near that stop and saw the ad yesterday when I went up to pick up some crap. Made me feel all fuzzy inside. I may even have to watch some of my XF DVDs this weekend.

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(Anonymous)
2004-03-05 11:34 pm UTC (link)

Hi sweetie, MOO here.

I never wrote you a letter. I never sent you a PM. All of my dealings with you have been out in the open. You must be confusing me with some other spotted animal.

Now, come kiss the COW.

BTW...I love the fact that so many people here think that the best thing the Haven mods do is "get rid of people". I agree, they're experts. Kudos mods.

MOO

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	thinkey 2004-03-06 01:35 am UTC (link)
	Did I ever mention that you are my favorite troll ever? All trolls should be just like you! It'll make fandom a funny place! I'm downright serious here. Think (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	It's raining wank rubytramp 2004-03-06 02:30 am UTC (link)
	Hallalujah! Oh dear, I'm wanking, Haven is wanking (well, Haven is always wanking) and now the Queen Troll herself is wanking. I'm drowning in the wank. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: It's raining wank thinkey 2004-03-06 07:22 pm UTC (link)
	LOL! Haven has been wanking since at LEAST May 98 with MF Luder and his antics...he was another priceless fellow. I want all my trolls back! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2004-03-22 07:55 am UTC (link)
	So you're saying your AOL address is not sirpaul? Because if you're going to stalk people over IM, you shouldn't stalk them under the same AOL address that you give out to friends. Also, I tracked both you and your ISP; you're lucky I didn't report you to AOL. The net is NOT as anonymous as you think it is, miss Moo. (Reply to this)(Parent)

The best wank out there, man...
(Anonymous)
2004-03-04 11:47 pm UTC (link)

As a fan of XF, once, a long time ago, I embarked on a quest to find a place to discuss the merits of the show online. Heh, soon, I learned that "internet fandoms" really equaled "really insane people," and was thus introduced to WANK.

What I found was Haven, and lordy, I CANNOT TURN AWAY. I actually did leave Haven a couple of years ago, but I find that the draw of crazy keeps sucking me in. Ah, the DD obsessed, the GA obsessed, they crack me up like nothing else. I have a couple of friends who continue to post at Haven for similar reasons--it's the crack cocaine of hilarious.

Honestly, I was always hoping the ad campaign thing raised enough money, just because I was honestly interested in seeing what kind of (non)response the thing generated. Don't get me wrong--I want another XF movie, but heh, um? I find it hilarious that something as silly as an ad campaign has incited so much WRATH.

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