Log In

Home
    - Create Journal
    - Update
    - Download

LiveJournal
    - News
    - Paid Accounts
    - Contributors

Customize
    - Customize Journal
    - Create Style
    - Edit Style

Find Users
    - Random!
    - By Region
    - By Interest
    - Search

Edit ...
    - Personal Info &
      Settings
    - Your Friends
    - Old Entries
    - Your Pictures
    - Your Password

Developer Area

Need Help?
    - Lost Password?
    - Freq. Asked
      Questions
    - Support Area



Wham bam, we're in a jam! ([info]sarajayechan) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2004-03-08 23:36:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood: energetic
Current music:Takagi Shimon (Okiayu Ryoutarou) - Only One
Entry tags:anime/manga, icky girls

Growing wank in [info]rabidfanssuck
Ardent Valkyrie posts a rant about how anime lacks strong female characters. Cue the debates!

It all seems all right so far. I even throw in my own opinions.

Then, it turns into a slowly growing battle of Right And Wrong. At least that's how it looks to me. :P

Oh, and here's a bit of self-contradiction.

Plus, now that I think about it, the OP's rant seems more than a little off-topic for [info]rabidfanssuck. :P


(Post a new comment)


[info]loki
2004-03-09 07:06 am UTC (link)
So she's complaining that strong women in anime arent' meant to be sexy, but complains about Faye using her tits to get out of trouble?

Okay!

(Reply to this)


[info]iczer6
2004-03-09 07:15 am UTC (link)
I hate to admit it but I think the OP might have a badly phrased point.

Many anime females really aren't characterized outside of their love interests.

For example Anzu from Yugioh. When she shows up she's a pretty kick ass gal but she seems to spend the rest of her time either cheerleading or being a damsel in distress.

I don't find her interesting mainly because the author never really fleshed her out. She's simply Yuugi's potential girlfriend and never given a whole lot of depth.

Compare her to characters like Malik or Seto Kaiba and well maybe the OP does have a point.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sarajayechan
2004-03-09 07:20 am UTC (link)
Well, considering YGO IS shounen I'm not surprised...shounen tends to have female characters that are pretty cool, but don't get as much screen time or development as the guys. ^^; (Of course, the bulk of the shounen I've seen/read is Yuu Yuu Hakusho and Trigun, so I could be wrong).

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pipssister, 2004-03-09 07:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2004-03-09 07:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kannaophelia, 2004-03-09 01:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mariagoner, 2004-03-09 04:54 pm UTC
Re: - [info]kannaophelia, 2004-03-09 05:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-03-09 07:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-03-10 02:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2004-03-10 01:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-03-10 09:25 pm UTC

[info]beccastareyes
2004-03-09 07:43 am UTC (link)
All right, correct me if I'm wrong but Malik is a major villain... it doesn't seem fair to compare the amount of characterization a supporting hero and a long story arc's major villain get. It seems to me that if we wanted to compare Anzu to anyone it would be someone like Honda who has a similar role (Yuugi's friend)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-03-09 07:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rogue, 2004-03-09 08:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iris, 2004-03-09 08:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]byagghametta, 2004-03-09 06:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2004-03-09 08:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alastor, 2004-03-10 06:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-03-10 02:28 am UTC

[info]selene_avis
2004-03-10 02:22 am UTC (link)
True, Anzu is probably the "normalest" character in the show - particularly compared to the likes of Malik or Kaiba or Akunadin, but she does have her good points. (Plus, in the manga, she knocks out the zombiefied proffesor. Bwhahaha!)

But, dude, Yu-Gi-Oh has only about six main females. Not that much of a selection when you think about it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]selene_avis
2004-03-10 04:11 am UTC (link)
But Malik is nothing without Rishid, which makes him just as dependent as the female characters that the OP hated. And while it definitely works in reverse - Rishid has plenty of problems of his own - at least he can, you know, function mentally without Malik.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rogue
2004-03-09 07:23 am UTC (link)
What's funny is she's got an icon of Integral Hellsing, vampire-slaying, secrect organization-leading, Nazi-killing woman.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sarajayechan
2004-03-09 04:46 pm UTC (link)
Well, Integra is different cause she isn't like all those other wimpy little drips, see. She isn't "defined by her relationship with a man"...but she also doesn't GET any love life, which is bad even though having a love interest is also bad.

Or something.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: - [info]rogue, 2004-03-09 05:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-03-09 07:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2004-03-09 08:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladyofviolets, 2004-03-09 08:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-03-09 10:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-03-09 10:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rogue, 2004-03-10 12:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-03-10 02:37 pm UTC

[info]pipssister
2004-03-09 07:29 am UTC (link)
This is half my fault too, isn't it?

I happen to be in a mean mood, though. When I wake up tomorrow, I'll be ashamed. ^_^

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sarajayechan
2004-03-09 10:29 pm UTC (link)
Nah, the OP deserved a good bitchslapping.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]blackjackrocket
2004-03-09 07:43 am UTC (link)
Domino is defined pretty much by her relationship with Giovanni. But it's not because she's a woman and he's a man, it's because she's a Rocket and he's the Boss.

Yet the OP would probably find that "Oh, she's so subjicated, blah blah blah"

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sarajayechan
2004-03-09 04:50 pm UTC (link)
Exactly. And Jessie and James are defined by their relationship with each other because they're PARTNERS. (Of course, in THAT relationship James is the little subservient one. XD So maybe that's a bad example.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2004-03-10 12:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-03-10 02:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2004-03-10 02:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-03-10 03:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2004-03-10 06:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-03-10 09:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarajayechan, 2004-03-10 03:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-03-10 02:32 am UTC

[info]iczer6
2004-03-09 08:27 am UTC (link)
Wow this gals being wanking all over RFS.

Check out where she chastises yaoi fans pronouncation of their fandom name: http://www.livejournal.com/community/rabidfanssuck/39830.html

And she was involved in the PoTC slash wank a while back as well.

[Damnit am I only the only one who saw that 'essay' as a joke? It reminds me of how some fans will bring up that 'Man of Steel Woman of Kleenex' essay whenever Superman is brought up.]

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]loki
2004-03-09 04:27 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I saw the yaoi one. The problem is that she went on this lonsih rant about how yaoi fans are all stupid for saying it wrong, but she never said how to pronounce it correctly until I got about half-way through the comments.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

(no subject) - [info]sarajayechan, 2004-03-09 04:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2004-03-10 12:53 am UTC

[info]aloysius
2004-03-09 11:33 am UTC (link)
Yu Yu Hakusho -- A mixed bag. Botan and Keiko are often in need of rescuing, but it was a kickass old woman who trained Yusuke (but once again, the strong female gets no sex life)

If she watches the show the whole way through, I'm sure she'll change her mind. (Mukuro, anyone? Or Sanada Kuroko? Or Kokou?)

But then, if she hasn't noticed the strength of Botan and Keiko after the Spirit Detective saga (especially the Suzaku episodes), and she hasn't noticed Shizuru at all, maybe all hope if out for her. Poor woman.

There aren't any women in the Sensui arc, but that's only because Sensui is gay. We all know that.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-03-09 02:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iris, 2004-03-09 06:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2004-03-09 08:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aloysius, 2004-03-09 07:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-03-10 07:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladyofviolets, 2004-03-09 06:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2004-03-09 08:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2004-03-09 08:24 pm UTC
Bitch, please
[info]ladyofviolets
2004-03-09 06:38 pm UTC (link)
It seems her only type of females are the man-hating feminazis...

And I love how she contradicts herself almost every moment. I thought Integra's father was the biggest influence in her life aside of Alucard's, eh.

People, no one's an island. We all depend on each other in one moment or another. That's human nature. And why is it so bad that a girl relies on a male? Should we females hate them and kick them all the time?

And what's REAL strenght, anyway? I think that being selfless and helpful is, in a sense, a sign of strenght more than of weakness...

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Bitch, please - [info]resmiranda, 2004-03-09 07:09 pm UTC
Re: Bitch, please - [info]sarajayechan, 2004-03-09 10:30 pm UTC
Re: Bitch, please - redwarrior, 2004-03-09 10:59 pm UTC
Re: Bitch, please - (Anonymous), 2004-03-09 11:42 pm UTC
Re: Bitch, please - [info]selene_avis, 2004-03-10 02:37 am UTC
Puts on wanking hat - [info]iczer6, 2004-03-10 05:40 am UTC

[info]rowan
2004-03-09 07:37 pm UTC (link)
Buh?

*points at characters like Lina from Slayers, Nami from One Piece, etc*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-03-09 11:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2004-03-10 12:50 am UTC

[info]schuldig
2004-03-09 08:04 pm UTC (link)
I... kinda agree with her. I mean, I'm a yaoi fangirl, but I have no objection to yuri or het if I really like the characters, and that almost never happens. Integra is one of the coolest female characters I can think of, though, along with Paine (FFX2), Utena, and Xena. If you want to say that's just because they're "masculine", fine, whatever.

/wank

What did annoy me about the original poster was her list of anime. Each criticism was either 'defined by the men in the series' or 'but she doesn't have a love life'. Buh?

(Reply to this)

I replied to her. I couldn't help it.
[info]garlicbug
2004-03-09 08:05 pm UTC (link)
The whining about needing more strong female characters instead of 'housewife' types was merely silly, but... going on to complain that the strong female characters don't get enough romantic interest?

YOU, HYPOCRITICAL TWIT, GET OUT OF MY FANDOM!

I'll be over here objectifying Spike Spiegel if anyone wants me.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: I replied to her. I couldn't help it. - redwarrior, 2004-03-09 08:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]garlicbug, 2004-03-11 05:48 am UTC
Re: I replied to her. I couldn't help it. - [info]senor_pinata, 2004-03-11 01:17 am UTC
Sure! - [info]garlicbug, 2004-03-11 06:13 am UTC
Re: Sure! - [info]senor_pinata, 2004-03-11 06:25 am UTC

[info]nekoneko
2004-03-09 08:17 pm UTC (link)
I knew there was a reason I didn't read rabidfanssuck anymore. It's more about the griping, than the rabid fans sucking.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - redwarrior, 2004-03-09 08:39 pm UTC

redwarrior
2004-03-09 08:42 pm UTC (link)
I believe this is a case of "If You Look For It, You'll Find It".

And besides, I thought feminism was about WOMEN, not HOTT GEI M4L3 s3XX0r. I think an actual feminist would devote more of her/his time to writing yuri or bi-fic, wouldn't you?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pipssister, 2004-03-09 08:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2004-03-09 08:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-03-09 10:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2004-03-09 10:52 pm UTC
*Boggle*
[info]bishounenhuntrs
2004-03-09 09:28 pm UTC (link)
Let me see if I've got this right; she thinks that guys like the dink from Love Hina are strong males who can stand on their own without the support of the females in the show................

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah*gaspforair*hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! *gaspcoughwheeze*

You have to be fucking kidding me?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: *Boggle* - (Anonymous), 2004-03-09 11:44 pm UTC
Re: *Boggle* - [info]bishounenhuntrs, 2004-03-10 12:06 am UTC

[info]smo
2004-03-09 10:08 pm UTC (link)
Given: there are, in fact, female characters in anime.

Prove: some of them are also strong.

Proof:

Arashi from X/1999. Kicks ass? Check. Has romance? Check. No jokes made about her cooking/boobies? Check and check. Strong? Well, shit. The woman can leap tall buildings, pull a sword out of thin air, create a barrier zone using her magical powers, endure some very bad (and sad) turns of events, and helps save all humankind (spoiler!). I'd say that's a big old check, right there.

QED, muthafucka.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sarajayechan, 2004-03-09 10:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-03-09 10:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarajayechan, 2004-03-09 10:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-03-09 11:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ahiru, 2004-03-10 02:59 am UTC
*snort* - [info]yadda, 2004-03-10 03:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-03-10 02:24 pm UTC
hmm - [info]alastor, 2004-03-10 06:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2004-03-09 10:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-03-09 11:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-03-10 04:31 am UTC

[info]lab
2004-03-09 11:22 pm UTC (link)
Weiss Kreuz-- Don't even get me started. These females are AWFUL! >_<


There are females in WK? I must've missed them.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nekoneko, 2004-03-09 11:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-03-10 06:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gaisce, 2004-03-10 07:28 am UTC

[info]croik
2004-03-10 08:49 am UTC (link)
I think the OP has something of a confusion in her definition of "strong female character."

There are a million anime females who can kick ass physically--isn't that what the entire Magic Girl genre is for? Women who save the day? Even most anime maids can hold their own and slap sense into a guy when they need to.

A well developed female character is a different thing entirely. I really like Celas Victoria from Hellsing, even if she's obviously not the strongest character in the show--she's endearing in her own way, dependant on Alucard or not. In fact, I find the new trend in anime/games for the super powerful, independant girls to be really tiresome--too Charlie's Angels-like to me. I don't need a female character to out-asskick the men in the show, I just want her to be likeable and interesting.

If you're watching good anime, you should be able to find a few of those. *shrug*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]garlicbug, 2004-03-11 06:30 am UTC

  
   
Privacy Policy - COPPA
Legal Disclaimer - Site Map