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Winterfox (winterfox) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2004-03-19 15:53:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
D&D, small wank
Originating from the very creator of Forgotten Realms setting (one of the many D&D settings) himself, Ed Greenwood. He seems to be a really wonderful, pleasant, friendly person, really. But his idea of female fictional characters can get a bit out of whack. Below, he describes one of them:

My concept of Alustriel as de facto ruler of Silverymoon has always been glossed over by TSR (and now WotC) for Code of Ethics/Code of Conduct reasons, because I see her as the Realms equivalent of ‘the Queen of Courtly Love,’ presiding over a Court that amuses itself (along with delighting in wit, new songs, new inventions or clever craftsmanship, and fashions) with dalliances, courtship, and lovemaking. Er, lots of lovemaking. :}

In the same way that real-world kings in some places and times enjoyed droit de signeur [French for: “As the King, I have the right to sleep with anyone” :}], Alustriel takes many lovers for short periods of time, and is one of those rare kind, understanding, warm people who has the knack of staying close, affectionate friends with former lovers, even in the presence of other ex-flames. In fact, it’s quite likely that any meeting of courtiers will contain a majority of folk who have visited the royal bed or baths at one time or another -- and most of them remain fiercely loyal to Alustriel and to her dream of Silverymoon. (In fact, some cynics, such as Torm of the Knights of Myth Drannor, believe she deliberately seduces political foes to transform them into personal friends.) The fact demonstrably remains that to attack Alustriel in Silverymoon will be to evoke immediate defense of her person by dozens of champions who will lay down their lives to protect hers, even knowing she’s the “Anointed of the Goddess” and may not really need their protection.

For obvious moral reasons, published Realmslore glides over all this ‘free love’ stuff (gakk! orgies! Nonononono!) without saying much (though if you read the words of Silverymmon-related Realmslore I’ve written, nothing contradicts it). If you’re portraying Alustriel correctly in play, she loves to laugh (except when to do so would be cruel to others), gives hugs, caresses, and kisses freely, has no personal dignity (nude? Me? Yes, so? Yes, I heard him comment on the shape and taste of my breasts -- that’s why I was thanking him) but a LOT of personal grace and charm, and never forgets details about people (so if meeting a knight she bedded one night eight years ago, she’ll recall the name of his ailing mother and her ailment, the name of his new bride, and any ‘touchy triggers’ any of them might have). Most folk who meet her can’t remain jealous of her or angry at her for long.

The original Mystra seemed to encourage Alustriel to have children (why? Hoho! SO many mysteries, waved before you!), because she conceived every nine months and a day or two, giving Faerun a succession of healthy males in a series of easy births (and being little constricted or uncomfortable while pregnant, because rather than acquiring a ballooning belly, the High Lady always put on weight all over, and retained her poise, balance, and activities). Yes, she’s given birth to females, and no, I’m not going to say ANYTHING more about that for future schemes reasons. :} The new Mystra may have other ideas, because (as far as Elminster knows -- and he doesn’t hesitate to ask her, straight out) Alustriel isn’t pregnant right now, and shows no signs of becoming so.

For details of her current consort, see the quartet of Realmslore columns appearing on the WotC website right now.

“Aerasume” is a surname, and all of the tall, strapping lads who bear it share the same father, who remains Alustriel’s lover on nights when she needs comforting, but these days is often away from Silverymoon on explorative expeditions into the wilderlands. As I said: with very few exceptions, Alustriel remains on good terms with her former lovers, and manages somehow to keep them comfortable with each other (I guess it’s like being members of a club one very much enjoys being part of). So they all get along well together. At long-ago GenCons I often ran Realms play sessions in which PCs were sent with an urgent message to Alustriel [a stranger to them by all but reputation] through a secret portal that admitted them to the Palace but removed all metal -- weapons and, er, BELT BUCKLES -- and all enchanted materials [items and garments vanished, spells operating on the bodies of the PCs just melted away] in doing so. Stumbling over their own falling clothing but under imperative, overriding orders to get to Alustriel right away (and bearing a pass that would let them do so), the racing PCs were directed to a certain chamber, and burst into it to discover that it was taken up by a vast, shallow bath filled with warm rosewater and naked people making love. SOMEwhere in all of that sliding flesh was Alustriel. Their mission: find her.

I loved watching players’ faces, right at that moment.


A poster took this to the Wizards.com board and a mini-wank ensues.

Ed's vision of the Realms always has a strong element of RANDY OLD GOAT in it. That's how we ended up with the Simbul and the rest of the Silver-Haired, Big-Breasted Munchkin Parade -- mrmister

Not everyone enjoys such style. There are people who have a different moral code than Mr. Greenwood and they dislike such texts and ideas. So yes, in some peoples eyes this is a bad "thing" -- Aragathor

After all, why create your own world if its people would have the same problems that people in the real world have? If I would suddenly be transported to a world like Toril, I´d also live a carefree life. Sue me -- Tempus665


Oh, and... first time poster, long-time lurker. Hi.


(Post a new comment)


[info]psychofangirl
2004-03-19 11:03 am UTC (link)
I have no problem with female characters enjoying sex and having multiple lovers, but this is too much. I mean, ALL of her lovers get along with each other? There's no way that's realistic. Even with her, no matter how good she is, there HAS to be some bitter ex-es SOMEWHERE.

That said, I wonder if she's slept with Drizzt? I like that pairing. Heh.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re:
winterfox
2004-03-19 11:05 am UTC (link)
Not only do they get along with each other, none of them is unhappy with Alustriel at all.

That said, I wonder if she's slept with Drizzt? I like that pairing. Heh.

Alustriel's got a locket that warms up when Drow!Angst!Boy Drizzt is near. Salvatore, however, never pursues this, and in any case, his characterization of Alustriel is anything close to Ed Greenwood's.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cpip
2004-03-19 04:06 pm UTC (link)
One might point out that she IS an accomplished wizardess.

A little magic can go a long way.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]psychofangirl, 2004-03-19 09:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-03-19 10:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - winterfox, 2004-03-20 04:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eag, 2004-03-20 08:29 pm UTC
Re: - winterfox, 2004-03-21 06:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eag, 2004-03-21 07:45 am UTC

[info]ashenmote
2004-03-19 12:17 pm UTC (link)
Let me weep big, bitter tears for the greatness that is Mr. Greenwoods oppressed visions.

How dare they viperish corporal minions to treat a world famous babes-with-pointed-ears painter like that.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2004-03-19 04:40 pm UTC (link)
(rather than acquiring a ballooning belly, the High Lady always put on weight all over, and retained her poise, balance, and activities)

While refraining from eyeing Mr Greenwood irritably and muttering about how I now know why the Storm Silverhand book sucked so much cheese (y'know basically any suggestion a character has been sexually abused by fricking giant spiders and now has a phobia about jam is overshare unless the spider-abuse will actually be relevant to the book as a whole.) I am wondering how the who 'oh she doesn't get fat' stuff works.

I mean basically women put on varying amounts of weight during pregnancy and there are some who don't show much. Nevertheless the baby does remain in a woman's womb and unless Alustrial has the power to make her organs move around her body so she can stow the baby in her ribcage then Mr Greenwood is being a tad...wanky to be honest.

Oh she gets pregnant ALL the time but no it doesn't have any effect on her body, activities, personality or anything else! What do you mean hormones? Overbreeding!? Don't be silly she's the chosen of the goddess and Mystra takes care of all that...

No she isn't stretched out! She doesn't give birth like normal women the baby just levitates from her womb while all her loving and admiring courtiers stand around and...

No she is NOT known far and wide as the whore of the Realms! She is adored by one and all and....No she does not have any veneral diseases! She's annointed and special!

Ahhh.....weep for the death of innocence and the days when I though Elminster was a wise and cool mage and not a winky, dirty old dude. *sniffs*

PS.
if a gm ever pulled that orgy in a bath tub on me there would be unpleasant happenings on the horizon. Specially if i was playing my ascetic , repentent monk from the RE years. Dude chopped off his own genitalia to stop himself from sinning...there woulda been smiting.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]eiviiaru
2004-03-19 06:12 pm UTC (link)
suggestion a character has been sexually abused by fricking giant spiders and now has a phobia about jam

How does this even work, causally?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-03-19 08:41 pm UTC
... - [info]eiviiaru, 2004-03-19 09:00 pm UTC

[info]bitca
2004-03-19 10:47 pm UTC (link)
No she isn't stretched out! She doesn't give birth like normal women the baby just levitates from her womb while all her loving and admiring courtiers stand around and...

Someone's been reading their Pliocene Saga...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Creep to the max
[info]kicklecubicle
2004-03-20 02:59 am UTC (link)
(rather than acquiring a ballooning belly, the High Lady always put on weight all over, and retained her poise, balance, and activities)

This creeped me out. I got the image of a woman who's carrying different parts of the baby in different parts of her body.

Oh, look, the baby's left arm is right under her throat. The head is right above her right knee. When it comes time for birth, the doctor excises the various different baby parts and puts them together like a Lego model.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Creep to the max - [info]eiviiaru, 2004-03-20 03:52 am UTC
Re: Creep to the max - winterfox, 2004-03-20 04:47 am UTC

[info]smo
2004-03-19 04:59 pm UTC (link)
In fact, it’s quite likely that any meeting of courtiers will contain a majority of folk who have visited the royal bed or baths at one time or another -- and most of them remain fiercely loyal to Alustriel and to her dream of Silverymoon.

Now, see, if this were my make-believe world, the males of the realm would be going to the royal baths to get freaky with each other. Then again, I'm just a dirty-minded little pervgirl. :)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sagralisse
2004-03-19 06:39 pm UTC (link)
I think I'd have some of both, please.

[/greedy]

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]musette
2004-03-20 08:45 am UTC (link)
What, you're telling me we can't have both in our insanely written fantasy realms?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]eiviiaru
2004-03-19 05:20 pm UTC (link)
You know, my gaming group always suspected the Realms were actually a little like this, but we always wrote it off as high-school perv-gamer-ness. But no! Actual canon! Actual, Eiv-is-snerking-up-Dr.-Pepper-over-here-at-the-spooge canon!

Poor Ed Greenwood and his oppressed vision! How can he continue to go on with only his super-powerful pimp-daddy SI character and his gigantic legion of booty elves if Alustriel's orgiastic rituals are not made canon?!

Also, I cannot take anyone who uses the emoticon :} at all seriously. Even besides everything else.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]smo
2004-03-19 05:21 pm UTC (link)
That is a distinctly pervy-looking emoticon.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shiori, 2004-03-20 01:59 am UTC

[info]cleolinda
2004-03-19 05:28 pm UTC (link)
and his gigantic legion of booty elves

There are no words for how much I now love the phrase "booty elves."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2004-03-19 07:13 pm UTC

[info]sagralisse
2004-03-19 06:01 pm UTC (link)
Am I the only one who thinks the most offensive part is the name "Silverymoon"? Sex=good. Fru fru fantasy names=bad.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]eiviiaru
2004-03-19 06:10 pm UTC (link)
The difference is that all D&D players are basically inured to the terminally goofy names at this point. We've all played so many campaigns with characters with names like "Darvin Longfoot of the Frupping-Dell Elves" that we're downright used to that kind of thing, whereas in-game sex remains an esoteric and vaguely odd prospect.

(Not really made any less odd by Greenwood, honestly, given that Greenwood gives us things like pregnant women who apparently keep the fetus in a portable hole.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-03-19 06:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - allen, 2004-03-19 06:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eiviiaru, 2004-03-19 07:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-03-19 07:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eiviiaru, 2004-03-19 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2004-03-19 09:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eiviiaru, 2004-03-19 09:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vasaris, 2004-03-19 09:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eiviiaru, 2004-03-19 10:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]serinatia, 2004-03-20 12:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wisdomeagle, 2004-03-20 08:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dirty_markers, 2004-03-21 07:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-03-19 09:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lexin, 2004-03-20 08:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-03-20 08:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - winterfox, 2004-03-20 04:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-03-20 12:12 pm UTC
Re: - winterfox, 2004-03-20 12:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-03-20 12:18 pm UTC
Re: - winterfox, 2004-03-20 12:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-03-20 12:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - winterfox, 2004-03-20 05:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-03-20 05:32 am UTC
Re: - winterfox, 2004-03-20 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sagralisse, 2004-03-20 06:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-03-20 12:13 pm UTC
Re: - winterfox, 2004-03-20 12:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2004-03-19 09:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2004-03-19 08:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eiviiaru, 2004-03-19 08:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cpip, 2004-03-20 03:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eiviiaru, 2004-03-20 03:45 am UTC
(no subject) - winterfox, 2004-03-20 04:53 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-03-20 05:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cpip, 2004-03-20 11:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lexin, 2004-03-19 08:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lexin, 2004-03-19 08:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2004-03-20 06:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lexin, 2004-03-20 08:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]doctorcal, 2004-03-21 02:24 pm UTC
Re: - winterfox, 2004-03-22 02:25 am UTC

[info]bunny
2004-03-19 06:12 pm UTC (link)
Sounds like a crossover with Sailor Moon to me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]wolfsamurai
2004-03-19 09:07 pm UTC (link)
I like Forgotten Realms well enough, it's my first choice for a premade D&D world, but Ed Greenwood is ~not~ a good writer. His Elminister books? Below average fantasy at best and if it weren't D&D, nobody would read it. His non D&D stuff is even worse than Elminister and I think I'm probably the only person in existance to slog through them. I'm just glad that he's been relatively balanced out by decent writers and editors on the game books so that more schlock like this doesn't get into them.

There's nothing wrong with sex in gaming, though it's not that common in tabletop in my experience, but that's something out of a horny 15 year old boy GM's plotbag, not something I would expect out of a professional game developer.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]darkrose
2004-03-19 09:09 pm UTC (link)
that's something out of a horny 15 year old boy GM's plotbag, not something I would expect out of a professional game developer.

Remember, though that Ed Greenwood is essentially a horny boy GM. The Forgotten Realms originated with a tabletop campaign that he ran, and was able to sell to T$R.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]wolfsamurai, 2004-03-19 09:22 pm UTC
The Sue alarms have exploded!
[info]iczer6
2004-03-19 09:16 pm UTC (link)
Okay brief rundown...

Alustriel is Queen of this Silverymoon place, beloved by a goddess, has health MALE children round the clock, fucks just about male she meets, [no nasty girlsex for her], her lovers all still adore her and get along great with each other, and no one would dare attack her because her many fucktoys lovers would defend her.

Is that right?

Christ why not just change her name to Mary Sue and get it over with already?

Greenwood may be the world's nicest guy but the man couldn't write decent characters if he had Philip Pullman ghostwriting for him.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: The Sue alarms have exploded!
[info]wolfsamurai
2004-03-19 09:23 pm UTC (link)
That's just one of them. He wrote ~7~ characters like that. And that's only the sisters (though thank the gods the other writers have at least tried to tone down their Sueishness). Elminister is probably the biggest Gary Stu in the history of mankind.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: The Sue alarms have exploded! - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-03-20 12:29 pm UTC
Re: The Sue alarms have exploded! - [info]ladylisse, 2004-03-22 08:14 am UTC
Re: The Sue alarms have exploded! - winterfox, 2004-03-20 05:04 am UTC

meshou
2004-03-19 09:24 pm UTC (link)
/In the same way that real-world kings in some places and times enjoyed droit de signeur [French for: “As the King, I have the right to sleep with anyone” :}], Alustriel takes many lovers for short periods of time [cut for blathering]/

It's "droit de seigneur." No fangirl French!

And come to think of it, no fangirl history! While there are records of kings claiming this, they're by their enemies. In other words "I'm a bastard, but at least I didn't bugger your fiance." There's just no law on the books historically that makes that a right, and no first hand records of it.

Cecil Adams wrote an article on it, and a few historians have written books. You'd think that urban legends would die.

As for this woman: Bitch, please. That stunned look is the realization of "Oh my God, she's going to make me imagine her naked again. Why can't we kill a hoard of displacer beasts like everyone else?" And the last thing you're going to get from a gangbang is loyalty. Herpes, yes. Loyalty, no.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]khym_chanur, 2004-03-20 03:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2004-03-20 03:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]musette, 2004-03-20 08:54 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-03-25 10:39 pm UTC
Dignity=Shame?
(Anonymous)
2004-03-19 09:40 pm UTC (link)
has no personal dignity (nude? Me? Yes, so? Yes, I heard him comment on the shape and taste of my breasts -- that’s why I was thanking him)

Okay, so her breasts also show no sign of bearing those oodles of kids, but aside from that, since when does "has no personal dignity" mean "feels no shame in revealing her body"? Shouldn't "no personal dignity" be illustrated rather with dialogue like "Farted? Me? Yes, so? Yes, I heard him say I have the loudest, smelliest farts in Silverymoon -- that's why I was thanking him!"

I have to join in the general cringing for the horror invoked by the name "Silverymoon" in any context that does not involve the marketing of pink toy unicorns. --math-anon

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Dignity=Shame? - [info]eiviiaru, 2004-03-19 10:10 pm UTC

[info]msmanna
2004-03-20 02:24 am UTC (link)

I weep for the memory of the pure, clean days of first ed. AD&D, when all we had to suffer through were Gary Gygax's tables for rolling the kind of prostitutes your characters met, and the diseases they could catch from them.

Oh, and the polearms in Unearth Arcana. GG loved him some polearm action, oh yes. Even now, if I want to know the names of insanely obscure European Medieval polearms, I get out UA. Which, oddly, I never do. Because, Gary, no one in their right mind fucking *cares*, or wants to look through page after page of long poles. Except, apparently, you.

All that said, I find the whole fecund, melon-breasted, harem-collecting, elf-whore Queen oddly endearing. It's nice to know that it *is* possible to get a job and life where you never have to grow up. Gives me hope.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]eiviiaru, 2004-03-20 03:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2004-03-20 07:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2004-03-20 04:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lexin, 2004-03-20 08:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-03-23 07:05 pm UTC

[info]lori
2004-03-21 09:41 pm UTC (link)
Good Lord. Thanks for posting, though, I had to share it with my gaming group since the topic of Alustriel came up last night. Thank God, we're nowhere near her at the moment.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sewingmyfish, 2004-03-21 11:28 pm UTC

 
   
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