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Go Go Anime Fandom! iczer6 2004-04-06 12:01 am UTC (link)

Did you know that almost all artists in Japan are horribly upset about the current scanning of pages and artwork by Americans? What you are doing with your web site is completely against the principles of the Japanese Artists. Lemme guess, she's got some sort of psychic link with every manga artist who ever lived, so she knows their personal thoughts and feelings on this subject? I guess they must be mad, because we all know that this is a *new* thing, and it's not like such sites can give artists new fans who would gladly buy their work. And I guess companies like Viz and TokyoPop must beat the artists unconscious and then steal their work. Come on Anime Fandom I know we can take on LoTR and HP if we just try hard enough! Icz (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: Go Go Anime Fandom! esk 2004-04-06 12:20 am UTC (link)
	I guess companies like Viz and TokyoPop must beat the artists unconscious and then steal their work. we-eell, i agree it's silly to make blanket "YOUR WEBSITE RAPES INNOCENT VIRGINAL MANGA ARTISTS WHILE THE BABY JESUS CRIES OMG WTF!!!11eleven!" condemnations, but i think there's a big difference between authorized translations and fansubs/scanlations/etc. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Go Go Anime Fandom! iczer6 2004-04-06 12:39 am UTC (link)
	but i think there's a big difference between authorized translations and fansubs/scanlations/etc. True but I think the other poster made a good point, scanlators and fansubbers aren't trying to rip off the original artists. I believe one of the rules they follow is to discontinue the series once they've been picked up. Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Go Go Anime Fandom! ladylisse 2004-04-06 12:21 am UTC (link)
	Because it's not like I discovered Naruto and YYH through scanlations or anything. Nuh uh. That being said, <3 your icon. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Go Go Anime Fandom! telophase 2004-04-06 12:45 am UTC (link)

I find it funny when fanartists - who by definition are using someone's copyrighted work as the basis for their own creations - get overly riled up over someone taking *their* work. Mind you, I've been known to indulge in fanart myself, but as someone who worked for five years for a slide library dealing in part with visual copyright issues, I know how small a legal leg I have to stand on. Now to go draw more half-naked Saiyuki boys... Oh yeah -- :iconlove: (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Go Go Anime Fandom! ruaki 2004-04-06 05:43 am UTC (link)

I find it funny when fanartists - who by definition are using someone's copyrighted work as the basis for their own creations - get overly riled up over someone taking *their* work. Hm. I think it mainly is the idea that someone is taking *credit* for their work, over the actual taking itself. It's like "intellectual plagiarism" or something? Copyrighted work used in a creative situation then taken by someone else who said that they did the work (and not even giving credit back to the original series that the work was based off of)? Personally, I get riled up--and my fanart gets 'plagiarized' a lot, which is why I never post original art anymore--because I'm always afraid someone is going to use said fanart for HIGHLY illegal things--like selling or pay-to-view or some weird crap like that which'll garner the interest of people I don't want to know that I'm using their original work to base my fanart on. My fanart is totally free for layouts or icons or banners--credit's nice, but not necessary--but the pisspot comes out when someone else says they did it... and then proceed to print it off on t-shirts and put them up for sale. Even better is when they say it's their "original character." (A few of my 'plagiarists' have actually done this. Yes. Thankfully, it's also the quickest way to get them booted off whatever art site they're being hosted by.) Anyway, I don't want that being traced back to me, since I always credit the original series and definitely don't make a point to make a profit off my fanart. O.o; Paranoid yes, but weird and crazy shit has happened to me cause of my artwork, so this is one of those improbable things I'm just waiting to become probable. ^_~ Did that make any sense, or am I just rambling? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Go Go Anime Fandom! telophase 2004-04-06 06:00 am UTC (link)

No, you make sense. :) I understand hating it when someone takes credit for your work -- I haven't run into that yet, but I also don't have a whole lot out there and am not well known. But still -- you are indeed using characters not your own, while I am sympathetic with your anger that someone is taking credit for your work, my level of sympathy is far less than if someone took your *original* work and took credit for it or sold it. There's a hazy line here -- heck, I'm making fanart to sell at an anime convention coming up. I'm trusting in the Japanese doujinshi tradition to cover me, of course, and I'm not doing art of characters owned by American companies (though I noticed someone selling fanart prints of Hellboy at a con I was at last month...). I'd be angry if someone took one of my pieces and put it on a T-shirt and sold it without getting both my and the copyright owner's permission, and I'd try to get them to stop it, but I'm most definitely not going to wank about it all over the Net like a lot of these other people do, because I don't feel that I deserve sympathy for that sort of thing, since I am, basically, ripping off the original copyright holder myself. Now were someone to do that with some of my original art ... oh, the floodgates would open, there. I've done some anime layouts using official art and put them up for download on an anime graphics site, but unlike many of the other designers, I don't slap "COPYRIGHT TO ME DON'T YOU DARE TAKE MY CREDIT OFF!!" all over them because I can't bring myself to claim ownership of something that uses art that isn't my own, even though the actual design (minus the art) and code is legally copyright to me. I even say on the layouts that people are free to use them, no strings attached, although I suggest they credit the original artists. My sliding scale of morality tends to be a little bit quirky at times. I don't expect people to agree with me. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Go Go Anime Fandom! ruaki 2004-04-06 06:39 am UTC (link)

Quirky's okay, lol. ^_~ I totally understand where you're coming from, because you are right. I personally never thought I'd get so upset about 'fanart plagiarism,' which is why I used to post my fanart and my sketches freely--sometimes without even putting my name on the 'lower' pieces of work. But then when just theft after theft came in, one after the other, week after week, it was like "holy fuck, people, what did I do wrong?" I don't even consider myself good enough for theft, or even 'well circulated'... ... which you know, is probably why the pieces are getting taken, LOL! ^_~ In the end, I pulled down all my original work, my sketches, and then shut down my webpage. I mean, little else you can do, right? Since these works are fanarts, as you said, the legal ground is more than shaky. Most art places and fansites are understanding if you decry 'thief!' in a rather reasonable manner, but if you come up against someone smart, there's nothing to be said other than 'he said, she said, the fans screamed and wanked.' ^_~ Still... I'm really weird about the art thing too. I have no qualms about fanart--I draw it afterall. But I absolutely *refuse* to use official art in anything, like layouts or banners--because I feel that's copyright violation--and I'm the same way about fanartwork that I don't have permission to use. Now, how fucked up is that? LOL... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Go Go Anime Fandom! telophase 2004-04-06 06:58 am UTC (link)

I'd certainly consider 35K pageviews plus almost a thousand people watching well circulated. :) I say from my 1300 views + 36 watches standpoint... The one thing I do to combat the so-far vague threat of plagiarism is to never post anything at its original size. Everything is shrunk to an extent, and the 300/600 ppi originals are never posted so I can always produce the original hi-res version if need be. I also have a slightly different situation on some of my art -- I do some art for an RPG company that is licensed to publish supplements in an established RPG, and therefore the original company owns the work I do. I've got permission to post low-res versions on my website, and I can grant permission for others to put up my low-res versions on their websites .. er, I had a point when I started this paragraph but I've forgotten what it was. I think this is a sign I need to get offline and finish the next four dragon pictures I've got to do for said RPG book - my deadline's Friday (ack!). (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Go Go Anime Fandom! ruaki 2004-04-06 07:14 am UTC (link)

The one thing I do to combat the so-far vague threat of plagiarism is to never post anything at its original size. Everything is shrunk to an extent, and the 300/600 ppi originals are never posted so I can always produce the original hi-res version if need be. Huh, that's a good idea. I usually don't post the original size in general anyway, since I work very large, but beyond watermarking my name all over the place--which I don't want to do (you're here to look at art, not my fucking name)--that's certainly another solution. Of course, I still keep all the original CG files, which I've had to pull out once or twice... I also have a slightly different situation on some of my art -- I do some art for an RPG company that is licensed to publish supplements in an established RPG, and therefore the original company owns the work I do. Oh yesh, that! LOL... yeah, that's why I've always been terrified of being 'published' or working for another company (other than the fact I'm terribly lazy)... I remember when I was a wee, naive little child with only a vague clue of how the world worked, I wanted to go into independent publishing for any of my original comics and stuff--simply cause I didn't want some bigwig taking my work and letting it slide into crap. If it's gonna be crap, it's gonna be crap on my terms, dammit! I've got permission to post low-res versions on my website, and I can grant permission for others to put up my low-res versions on their websites .. er, I had a point when I started this paragraph but I've forgotten what it was. I'm sure it has to do with the whole copyright issue thing--yanno, how you're bound by the legalities of the fact that the artwork you've done is owned by another. (I believe most manga-ka who have websites on the web are bound by similar contracts.) And do we need to put a whip to you to get you crackin'? Unless you're the type who needs the stress of OMGDEADLINEINFIVEMINUTESHYPERVENTILATE!7 to actually do anything? ^_~ (And oh my god, I lied. I'm so breaking copyright!!17 I have icons with original artwork in them! I'm positively shocked! Scandalized! lol...) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Go Go Anime Fandom! telophase 2004-04-06 07:58 am UTC (link)

Oh yesh, that! LOL... yeah, that's why I've always been terrified of being 'published' or working for another company (other than the fact I'm terribly lazy)... I remember when I was a wee, naive little child with only a vague clue of how the world worked, I wanted to go into independent publishing for any of my original comics and stuff--simply cause I didn't want some bigwig taking my work and letting it slide into crap. If it's gonna be crap, it's gonna be crap on my terms, dammit! Heh. :) I really don't have a whole lot of problems with that, but I think it's because the work I've done for hire isn't the work that I really like and want to do. But only in some cases. I've got a manga short story in the works to submit to Tokyopop the next time their contest rolls around, and while I have definite ideas about what I do and do not want it to do, if lightning struck and Tokyopop decided to pick it up as a series, I have zero problem with doing what their editor says, if it goes against my original ideas. And, as we say over at the webcomic Can't Sleep Con Will Eat Me I do (bad) art for, "Can't Sleep is all about the corporate whoring!" (I put one of the characters into a Utilikilt and the Utilikilts company not only asked to use a picture of him on their webpage, but they comissioned me for art for a postcard they sent out. I think it may have to do with art being more of a storytelling thing for me, instead of an expressive thing. It seems to be one step more removed for me than it seems to be for other artists. Hm. I now seem to be arguing a slightly different position that I started out to do... And do we need to put a whip to you to get you crackin'? Unless you're the type who needs the stress of OMGDEADLINEINFIVEMINUTESHYPERVENTILATE!7 to actually do anything? ^_~ Unfortunately, I'm the five-minutes-hyperventilating type... on the bright side, though, I have yet to miss a deadline. :) I printed my sketch out in blue and blue-penciled in the designs on the dragon's hide, so that' *almost* like I've got it done, right? Right?? (And oh my god, I lied. I'm so breaking copyright!!17 I have icons with original artwork in them! I'm positively shocked! Scandalized! lol...) how dare u!! i hav no respekt 4 u now!11!!one!!1 (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Reply from suspended user)

	delfeus 2004-04-06 09:20 am UTC (link)
	I didn't know you have a gallery at deviant! There was some stuff I haven't seen before. Pretty. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Go Go Anime Fandom! psychofangirl 2004-04-06 08:09 am UTC (link)
	"--but the pisspot comes out when someone else says they did it... and then proceed to print it off on t-shirts and put them up for sale." That's the only thing that bothers me too. You make perfect sense. Then again, I don't draw fanart and I think it's kind of hard to make T-shirts out of icons. Heh. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	delfeus 2004-04-06 09:13 am UTC (link)
	Preeeetty! How about drawing some half-naked Sohma boys? Like Ayame? Or Kyo and Yuki? Pweeeease! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	telophase 2004-04-06 09:16 am UTC (link)
	I'll ... see what I can do. ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: delfeus 2004-04-06 09:40 am UTC (link)
	You can always make them fully naked, if you don't like the half-naked part. *wide grin* (Reply to this)(Parent)

	psychofangirl 2004-04-06 12:28 am UTC (link)
	Oh God. I saw that on the DJML too and I thought it was informative overall. I'd like to make some icons from the doujinshi I got, but I'm not so sure I will now. :\ (Reply to this)

meshou 2004-04-06 12:30 am UTC (link)

I got mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I have all the Fruits Basket I could get before it was yanked from the sites. But I am happy scanlators are out there, because the ones that care are amazingly good at what they do. I bought manga seven years ago. Since the manga publishers have started competing with the scanlators, the quality of translation, formatting and images has gone from "shitty" to "worth my money." I'm buying all the Fruits Basket mangas as they come out, electronic copy or no. Doujinshi is another thing to ponder since it has a snowball's chance in hell of being licensed, but I have already semi-spooged myself. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	senor_pinata 2004-04-06 12:43 am UTC (link)
	Doujinshi artists are never going to see a penny of your money unless you go to Japan and buy it direct. Fuck it, I say, let's see some porn that will never be licensed. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	meshou 2004-04-06 12:49 am UTC (link)
	Or spend 30 dollars for shipping and handling and twenty pages of untranslated porn of untested character, kink, and quality. Riiight. So... Huzzah! *brings forth the roast lamb, mead, and porn* (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	musette 2004-04-06 01:40 am UTC (link)
	Mead! And porn! Woot! (Reply to this)(Parent)

musette 2004-04-06 01:43 am UTC (link)

You know, I just have to laugh in the face of copyright protection wank (mostly because my main fandoms (musical theatre) continually scoff directly at any copyright laws). Most fans would BUY the effing doujinshi if it was available in any Anglophone country, but considering that it /isn't/ it's not as if anyone is losing money. Same thing with the theatre fen who throw shit fits over people bootlegging. Do you REALLY think the people who are trading the bootlegs don't already own all the legit recordings available? Bitch, please. Aw crap, I spooged all over that. *busts out the Swiffer* (Reply to this)(Thread)

	coyotegirl 2004-04-06 04:25 am UTC (link)
	Lemme add a little before you clean up. A-freaking-men. When it's available in english, we buy it. It's usually a long damn time before that, though, and some things wouldn't even make it over here if the fansub fans weren't demanding it! *cough* Done now, thank you. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: musette 2004-04-06 05:32 am UTC (link)
	*mutter* Exactly. Jesus christ, fans are not out to steal money from their objects of fanning!! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

croik 2004-04-06 03:27 pm UTC (link)

Are you sure? I think the heart of the argument is still: Japanese DJ artists are supposed to receive money for their work. If you're reading scanalations, you're enjoying a service you didn't pay for. Regardless of whether you "would have bought it in English if you could" it's still theft. You should really be saying, "Fans are not out to steal money from their objects of fanning, unless its inconvenient for them to have to actually pay for it." /me wanking (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

raisedeyebrow 2004-04-06 09:00 pm UTC (link)

I think the heart of the argument is still: Japanese DJ artists are supposed to receive money for their work. Good point. But if you look at the way that the vast majority of non-Japanese based fans obtain doujinshi, this contention doesn't seem to hold out. Most people buy their doujinshi second-hand via E-bay, Animate, JPQueen, or other resellers and not directly from the doujinka. Shouldn't these second-hand sales be banned as well then, since the original artists are seeing no profits from the sale? I know that this is one of the main reasons that Book-Off has gotten so much flack from publishers in Japan - the sale of second-hand books means no profits go to the original publishers and mangaka. Just speaking practically though, one of the problems with doujinshi is that they are extremely hard for non-Japanese fans who don't live in Japan and who don't read Japanese to purchase. The only way I've ever been able to buy doujinshi is on the second-hand market, which means the original artists aren't getting any money from me in any case. Doujinshi also have far smaller print runs than mainstream manga. I can easily go to Amazon.jp and buy the full run of X or Tokyo Babylon. It's impossible to do this with X or TB doujinshi. So I think the rationale behind scanslations of doujinshi is actually much stronger than that of mainstream manga. It's the only way that fans like me will ever be able to see this work. And like scanslations of manga, scanslations of doujinshi have made me seek out and purchase the other work of circles I like. The artists still, unfortunately, never see any of my money though. Hopefully, doujinka will clue into this and will start distributing their work digitally with something like a paypal or bitpass link. I'll be the first person in line if this happens. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: croik 2004-04-06 09:26 pm UTC (link)

Selling off something you own isn't the same as buying it from the artist--if I buy a DJ and then sell it, presumably I'm just getting back the money I spent to get it in the first place (which I deserve, because I no longer own the book). If people feel like paying me three times what a DMC doujinshi is worth, that's their business, but really not part of the issue. Because at one point, the creator did get a portion of the original sale. I'm not necessarily against scanalations, it is the only way people are going to get this stuff. I myself am a fansub-hording criminal (^_~). I don't care if people do it, but "it's expensive" and "inconvenient" are not an excuses for being a thief. Just say, "Hey, I know it's wrong, but I'm going to do it anyway." I'm just as guilty of it--I've scanalated for friends. I just wish people wouldn't try to justify it as if they have a right to steal from someone, just because they're in another country. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: musette 2004-04-07 04:21 am UTC (link)

There's a big difference between damn near impossible and inconvenient though. I'm not going to pay for something in a language I don't speak, and if Anglophone publishers aren't going to pick something up, I'm not going to read it. If it's something where I'm going to have to get it imported at a heft price, I'm not going to lay down the cash unless I know I'll like whatever it is. However, if I read a scanlation/hear a copy of a burned cody/whatever and I do enjoy it, I'll gladly plunk down the money for it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: croik 2004-04-07 04:57 am UTC (link)
	As long as you buy the ones you like, there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone should have the oppertunity to see what something is before they buy it. It's just that not everyone is quite that moral ^^;; (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: musette 2004-04-07 05:10 am UTC (link)
	Oh that's certainly true, lol. Unfortunately the opportunistic sons of bitches make everyone else look bad, as per usual. (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous) 2004-04-06 12:18 pm UTC (link)

Can I add 'when it's available in England' to that? Something that drives me insane is the way everything disappears when it's liscensed in America, whether it's available elsewhere or not. There are lot of English-speaking people from other countries (you can tell because when they write fanfics they use correct spelling and grammar) who'd lose access without filesharing programs. Admittedly, America is the biggest market, and this is mostly a personal gripe with the licensers rather than the subbers, but it would be nice to own some legal anime. It's like Europe doesn't exist except for HP fans sometimes. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Reply from suspended user)

(Anonymous) 2004-04-06 06:04 am UTC (link)

I never got any replies from the artists. I did try to get permission, and when I didn't get a response, I decided to go ahead and post anyway. Not to insult the artist; I wanted to share this wonderful work with other fans. And if the artist ever contancts me and asks me to remove the scanslations from my site, I will do so, no questions asked. The hell? "I asked permission and didn't get it, so I went ahead and did something that might really upset them, and if they don't like it, they should come to ME! But it's a compliment! I'm just doing the world a favor!" She couldn't think of a less wanky rationalization? Oyster (Reply to this)(Thread)

telophase 2004-04-06 08:12 am UTC (link)

Sheesh. I worked in a slide library for five years and making sure that we didn't get caught violate copyright was part of my job, so I got to do things like attend copyright seminars and discuss life with copyright lawyers. And what I learned from all that is that is that you're even *more* screwed if you ask for permission and either get denied or don't get a response and then violate it anyway, because you've *shown* that you knew it was under copyright. You might be able to make the "I'm an idiot and I didn't know" defense work in your favor a little bit, but not if you've gone and proven you knew. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous) 2004-04-06 07:46 pm UTC (link)

Yeah I have to agree that's a pretty stupid argument. It's right up there with my ultimate pet peeve 'Tee hee, I saved all this to my hard drive, and now I want to use it, so if it's yours, hey, it's your job to let me know or don't expect any credit!" Gyaa that makes me want to scream -_- It also made me right click protect my DJ scans. But then having doujinshi artists come and say, -hey thanks for buying our doujinshi, now, don't you dare put any iamges online because that will make us mad- is also frustrating Because, yes while the original problem was scanlations of Doujinshi (and not manga actually) it cam out that many doujinshi artists don't even want to see the front covers scanned online, let alone inside art. That conflicts with the western fandom which often uses those archives to decide what doujinshi to buy, because face it, a good cover doesn't mean shit for the inside art. The real problem as I see it is people who take doujinshi pictures and use them as icons or what not. I know the art is pretty, but really . . . seeing it online does not make it yours, nor give you the right to use it. I think if people didn't steal the scans the owners of the DJ put online, then doujinshi artists wouldn't have as much of a problem with their stuff being online. Or at least could be a little more objective. -ani _bester (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

telophase 2004-04-06 08:43 pm UTC (link)

That conflicts with the western fandom which often uses those archives to decide what doujinshi to buy, because face it, a good cover doesn't mean shit for the inside art. You're telling me. If I can't read the language, I'm basing my entire decision to buy on the art, and I'm pretty much an art geek, and want to spend my money on *good* art. I've bought a few things based on the cover alone, because it was striking, but most of them had pretty bad inside art. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2004-04-06 08:41 pm UTC (link)
	...your icon... ::loves:: Oyster (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	telophase 2004-04-06 08:45 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you! [pimping]It's a scan of a button sold by a friend of mine -- bitpig over on Livejournal. He says he's going to be making a "Your Fanart Blows" one soon.[/pimping] (Reply to this)(Parent)

	aruru 2004-04-06 07:27 am UTC (link)
	a. You're welcome. :) b. I think you should've added the highlights of the non-wanky, informative debate as well. Both sides of the argument actually raised some very good points. But since some of it's long, I suppose you could always link to the ML? (Reply to this)

sarajayechan 2004-04-06 09:40 pm UTC (link)

Let's see... where do I begin with how horrified I am by your web site? Not to mention that scanlations are absolutely prohibited on the DOJML? We support the original artists here. Did you know that almost all artists in Japan are horribly upset about the current scanning of pages and artwork by Americans? What you are doing with your web site is completely against the principles of the Japanese Artists. Most artists I spoke to are comfortable with text-based translations of their works being online but JUST translations, not a -scanlation-. Yeah, she REALLY spoke to all those artists so she knows EXACTLY HOW THEY FEEL about everything. I really hate it when people get all prissy and decide to stand up for the author/artist/whoever when said author/artist/whoever DIDN'T ASK THEM TO. I need to make some sort of icon with that sentiment... (Reply to this)

Ugh >_< (Anonymous) 2004-04-08 01:23 pm UTC (link)

Blarg... I really really hate this argument, there are just so many things wrong with it 1) OFP was not started by doujinshi artists, it was started by online fanartists. That's a horse of a different color, these people generally don't produce fanart with the intention of selling it. Certainly some doujinshi artists are involved with it, but usually in reference to the fanarts they produce independently of their doujinshi and post online. 2) If you read the site, it pretty clear they're referring to artwork posted on the artist's site and not scanned doujinshi, they don't even touch the subject. They make many references to downloading and hotlinking... none to scanning 3) Doujinshi is not sold for a profit. Maybe this point gets blurred for Western fans who could pay anywhere from 15 dollars to hundreds for one book, but in Japan a doujinshi will cost you at MOST 1600 yen (roughly 16 dollars), usually it's much less than that, about 500 yen give or take depending where you buy it. The few books I do have that I paid 20 dollars or more for are large anthos with well over 100 pages of comics. The money doujinshika charge for the doujinshi goes to paying for the printing of the book, and perhaps the printing of the next book. Doujinshika are NOT in the game for the money, trust me on that ... go to any doujinshi event and you'll see lots of artists simply giving away stuff (stickers, stationary, information sheets with sketches and what not) for free to people who've bought their work and even to people who've just LOOKED at their work. 4) I suppose the misconception comes from the idea that many mangaka are "discovered" as doujinshika, statistically this is completely untrue (there's a very good book written on this subject called "Adult Manga"). 5) Doujinshi books frequently do not get "reprinted", which means there are a limited number of copies of each book. Not everyone can just go out and buy one, nor are they intended to be life long possessions. Girls buy doujinshi, keep them for a time then resell them to places like Mandarake, K Books ... so far I have yet to see any doujinshika moan about the evils of Mandarake making a profit by redisturbing their work. 6) I fail to see how "buying" the doujinshi "supports" the artist anymore than downloading the scanlation. Western fans do not go to doujinshi events, they buy their books from 2nd hand seller ... so the doujinshi artist has already gotten her cut and will not receive any money when you buy her book online or in the con dealers room. How and in what way does this support the artist? Of course ... My opinion could be affected by the fact that I scanlate doujinshi :3 -Isa (Reply to this)