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Yeah, whatever. (![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} photosinensis) wrote in ![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/community.gif){kind=small} fandom_wank,@ 2004-04-21 15:00:00 |
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Back by popular demand...the FA Petition Wank
Everybody knows about FAP being the wankiest place on the internet. However, this one takes the cake.
Appearantly, some people have started a petition to rid FA of cross-gen, incest, and beastiality ships.
xray starts the petiton saing:
Cross-Generation ships (adult with minor) are pedophilic in nature and pedophilia is illegal.
Incest is illegal and highly immoral.
Bestiality is illegal and highly immoral.
In that pedophilia, incest, and bestiality are illegal and are averse to education, that impressionable minors are not prohibited from viewing such material at this website, I respectfully request that all cross-generation, incestuous, and bestial ships and their related material be disallowed.
xray
Of course, the next response comes from FA head honchoheidi8, in order to defend these fics, bringing up jokes of bestality in the books, noted incest in other literature, and the legitmacy of stories about cross-generation romance. It's not really wanky, but just more of an official line.
However, Prongs, Sr. feels that the ickle children are too sexually impressionable:
I agree, except that the youngest posters allowed here are 13 and that is an impressionable age in sexual and emotional development. There is a big age gap in maturity from 13 thru 18. An eighteen year old should be able to understand the moral implications of illegal relationships, while a 13 year old may not, which is why I agree with XRay, that illegal and immoral relationships should not be a part of FAP, especially at SCUSA.
As a parent myself, I absolutely agree with this which is why I don't allow him at FAP, especially SCUSA. However, if FAP is claiming to be an educational site for 13 and up, it should show the moral responsibility in having educational material that is appropriate for the young age group. If not, then perhaps FAP should raise the age level that can post here.
Of course, Stinky Wizzlehats questions whether xray is indeed fandom_scruples. Makes sense to me.
And Patil raises a few points about censorship and personal responsibility, even invoking Janet's boob and Howard Stern:
I am very, very tired of the way some people here don't seem to want to take responsibility for what they read and don't read. I am tired of a sensitive minority thinking it has the right to deprive the majority their right to discuss ideas--even weird and icky ones--simply because they don't like it or because they want to "protect the children." This kind of crap is happening right now in the so-called "free" United States, with the FCC acting like it is now the Morality Police and forcing radio stations and TV stations to pay huge fines and ban certain programming, all because a small but vocal minority of people had a cow about Janet Jackson's boob or Howard Stern's racy shows. For heaven's sake, just turn off the TV or radio, or change the station.
But Prongs, Sr. doesn't want to give in:
Patil, I believe that the questions raised here are legitimate. Firstly, I'm not questioning FAP's educational purposes out of spite and "troublemaking", I like this site and have a curiousity on what their policy is regarding this issue. Secondly, I, as a parent, genuinely care about the welfare of the younger posters on this board. So, I apologize for actually being a nice, caring and concerned member of FAP!
One of the joys of free speech is being able to express alternative opinions without fear of personal attack. I feel your above post to me borderlines on that, as you don't know me personally, and are making many assumptions about my character, political beliefs and parenting skills. An apology is in order here.
And even further, Prongs goes to talk about SCUSA being seperated into canon and non-canon discussion!
I also would like to add a suggestion that I know some members have talked about before (privately), that is to separate the fanon discussion with potential canon discussion at SCUSA. This would enable parents (like myself) to let our kids enjoy the ships without having to worry about them being exposed to brother/sister pairings or adult/child pairings, which I believe are inappropriate for my kids.
Of course, deciding on what can be considered "canon" or "fanon", might make the old DT look tame! </i>
Of course, others ridicule xray and Prongs as being quite idiotic in their quest to eliminate fics they don't like from FA.
But xray continues to state that it's "all about the children":
The main reason for this request is not because of what offends me or what doesn't offend me or you or the other guy/girl… it's how these things are perceived by the minors who read it.
Heidi I was told about this website many months ago by members of another message board. I came strictly for the DT. Once that got shut down I started exploring a bit and found some things I didn't like but, as it wasn't my cup of tea, I just ignored it and participated in the threads that interested me. A few days ago I saw a show on TV that talked about pedophiles and some tricks they use to lure in their prey and what law enforcement was doing about it. I was sick. A couple of days ago while exploring various ships in SCUSA I came across a few thread titles that made me nauseous. What does a 13 yr old think when they come here and see these ship titles:
(Remus/Ginny): Blood, Chocolate & Naked Werewolves
(Remus/Hermione): Something There That Wasn't There Before
Threesomes, Moresomes and Love Triangles of all shapes
Oh… adult with child… that must be ok then. Maybe Mr. Wierdo down the street was telling the truth when he said it was ok.
Blood, Chocolate, and Naked Werewolves? Threesomes, Moresomes and Love Triangles of all shapes? What is the message here?
I was affected me enough to contact a few fellow shippers via owls and emails about their thoughts and everyone I talked to agreed that there was no place for this. Hence, my petition.
quote:
----------------------------------------
Originally posted by Heidi
The age of consent in the UK is 16 for both males and females.
Most of the main characters in the books are at least sixteen, or will be so in the first pages of the next book, and accordingly, the characters are not considered underage per the UK's laws
----------------------------------------
But they aren't right now; is it ok anyway? What about 14? If that's ok, then what about 13? or 12? when do we draw the line?
It is so very true that parents have a responsibility to monitor their children. I do not contest this and I am a firm believer in parents being responsible for their children's upbringing but there's only so much a parent can do.
That post just drones on and on, getting even wankier.
Then, Prongs, Sr. and phoenixwriter start in debating R/Hr vs. H/Hr!
Prongs: As a serious H/Hr shipper, doesn't it bother you a little that the discussion at SCUSA is more fan-based and does not engage in more debate and discussion (between H/Hr's) on how, when, and why JKR would write H/Hr? This is actually what we mostly discuss over at Orange Crush. Of course, I know you have other websites you can have a more canon discussion and debate about H/Hr, but isn't the idea appealing to you to have a forum which is based on "potential" canon ships and not ships that we "know" aren't going to happen like the adult/child pairings that I'm pretty sure JKR is not going to write or the incestuous brother/sister, etcs. pairings, which, I'm equally confident JKR is not going to write.
Phoenixwriter: Prongssr, true be told I don't post on SCUSA much. You can even say 4 of all my posts were ever in SCUSA posted but I don't need to post there since I have little to no interest in HMS Pumpkin Pie. My personal interest lies in HMS Harmony a canon ship which is there to debate H/Hr based on canon. The reason for that is I have a different background. Different as some shipper I do ship because I read it in canon and not because one Fic was so amazing. But I understand it and accept it that they like more to ship like that. If it would bother me more and I had a desire for a ship which debate H/Hr on FA as canon then I could start an own ship but I don't.
Of course, tybalt-quin tries to bring sanity and rationality back in, but when do such things work on wankers?
t-q: Just to ask a question - but why would a 13 year old be any more affected by a teacher parent 'ship' than a 'same gen' ship between underage characters? For example, if your concern is that such ships 'normalise' potentially abusive behaviour then why not abolish the underage ships as well? After all, if you're going on canon timelines then Draco/Ginny, Hermione/Harry, Hermione/Ron and so on and so forth are all under the age of 16 which (in the UK - and recognising that different countries have different ages of consent) would amount to the equivalent of statutory rape.
Patil makes a long response on page 4, but I'm not going to C&P...I'm just lazy.
Ah, Harry Potter Fandom, how I love thee!
Edited because I am an idiot and forgot to put the URL to the wank in.
Everybody knows about FAP being the wankiest place on the internet. However, this one takes the cake.
Appearantly, some people have started a petition to rid FA of cross-gen, incest, and beastiality ships.
xray starts the petiton saing:
Cross-Generation ships (adult with minor) are pedophilic in nature and pedophilia is illegal.
Incest is illegal and highly immoral.
Bestiality is illegal and highly immoral.
In that pedophilia, incest, and bestiality are illegal and are averse to education, that impressionable minors are not prohibited from viewing such material at this website, I respectfully request that all cross-generation, incestuous, and bestial ships and their related material be disallowed.
xray
Of course, the next response comes from FA head honcho
heidi8, in order to defend these fics, bringing up jokes of bestality in the books, noted incest in other literature, and the legitmacy of stories about cross-generation romance. It's not really wanky, but just more of an official line.However, Prongs, Sr. feels that the ickle children are too sexually impressionable:
I agree, except that the youngest posters allowed here are 13 and that is an impressionable age in sexual and emotional development. There is a big age gap in maturity from 13 thru 18. An eighteen year old should be able to understand the moral implications of illegal relationships, while a 13 year old may not, which is why I agree with XRay, that illegal and immoral relationships should not be a part of FAP, especially at SCUSA.
As a parent myself, I absolutely agree with this which is why I don't allow him at FAP, especially SCUSA. However, if FAP is claiming to be an educational site for 13 and up, it should show the moral responsibility in having educational material that is appropriate for the young age group. If not, then perhaps FAP should raise the age level that can post here.
Of course, Stinky Wizzlehats questions whether xray is indeed fandom_scruples. Makes sense to me.
And Patil raises a few points about censorship and personal responsibility, even invoking Janet's boob and Howard Stern:
I am very, very tired of the way some people here don't seem to want to take responsibility for what they read and don't read. I am tired of a sensitive minority thinking it has the right to deprive the majority their right to discuss ideas--even weird and icky ones--simply because they don't like it or because they want to "protect the children." This kind of crap is happening right now in the so-called "free" United States, with the FCC acting like it is now the Morality Police and forcing radio stations and TV stations to pay huge fines and ban certain programming, all because a small but vocal minority of people had a cow about Janet Jackson's boob or Howard Stern's racy shows. For heaven's sake, just turn off the TV or radio, or change the station.
But Prongs, Sr. doesn't want to give in:
Patil, I believe that the questions raised here are legitimate. Firstly, I'm not questioning FAP's educational purposes out of spite and "troublemaking", I like this site and have a curiousity on what their policy is regarding this issue. Secondly, I, as a parent, genuinely care about the welfare of the younger posters on this board. So, I apologize for actually being a nice, caring and concerned member of FAP!
One of the joys of free speech is being able to express alternative opinions without fear of personal attack. I feel your above post to me borderlines on that, as you don't know me personally, and are making many assumptions about my character, political beliefs and parenting skills. An apology is in order here.
And even further, Prongs goes to talk about SCUSA being seperated into canon and non-canon discussion!
I also would like to add a suggestion that I know some members have talked about before (privately), that is to separate the fanon discussion with potential canon discussion at SCUSA. This would enable parents (like myself) to let our kids enjoy the ships without having to worry about them being exposed to brother/sister pairings or adult/child pairings, which I believe are inappropriate for my kids.
Of course, deciding on what can be considered "canon" or "fanon", might make the old DT look tame! </i>
Of course, others ridicule xray and Prongs as being quite idiotic in their quest to eliminate fics they don't like from FA.
But xray continues to state that it's "all about the children":
The main reason for this request is not because of what offends me or what doesn't offend me or you or the other guy/girl… it's how these things are perceived by the minors who read it.
Heidi I was told about this website many months ago by members of another message board. I came strictly for the DT. Once that got shut down I started exploring a bit and found some things I didn't like but, as it wasn't my cup of tea, I just ignored it and participated in the threads that interested me. A few days ago I saw a show on TV that talked about pedophiles and some tricks they use to lure in their prey and what law enforcement was doing about it. I was sick. A couple of days ago while exploring various ships in SCUSA I came across a few thread titles that made me nauseous. What does a 13 yr old think when they come here and see these ship titles:
(Remus/Ginny): Blood, Chocolate & Naked Werewolves
(Remus/Hermione): Something There That Wasn't There Before
Threesomes, Moresomes and Love Triangles of all shapes
Oh… adult with child… that must be ok then. Maybe Mr. Wierdo down the street was telling the truth when he said it was ok.
Blood, Chocolate, and Naked Werewolves? Threesomes, Moresomes and Love Triangles of all shapes? What is the message here?
I was affected me enough to contact a few fellow shippers via owls and emails about their thoughts and everyone I talked to agreed that there was no place for this. Hence, my petition.
quote:
----------------------------------------
Originally posted by Heidi
The age of consent in the UK is 16 for both males and females.
Most of the main characters in the books are at least sixteen, or will be so in the first pages of the next book, and accordingly, the characters are not considered underage per the UK's laws
----------------------------------------
But they aren't right now; is it ok anyway? What about 14? If that's ok, then what about 13? or 12? when do we draw the line?
It is so very true that parents have a responsibility to monitor their children. I do not contest this and I am a firm believer in parents being responsible for their children's upbringing but there's only so much a parent can do.
That post just drones on and on, getting even wankier.
Then, Prongs, Sr. and phoenixwriter start in debating R/Hr vs. H/Hr!
Prongs: As a serious H/Hr shipper, doesn't it bother you a little that the discussion at SCUSA is more fan-based and does not engage in more debate and discussion (between H/Hr's) on how, when, and why JKR would write H/Hr? This is actually what we mostly discuss over at Orange Crush. Of course, I know you have other websites you can have a more canon discussion and debate about H/Hr, but isn't the idea appealing to you to have a forum which is based on "potential" canon ships and not ships that we "know" aren't going to happen like the adult/child pairings that I'm pretty sure JKR is not going to write or the incestuous brother/sister, etcs. pairings, which, I'm equally confident JKR is not going to write.
Phoenixwriter: Prongssr, true be told I don't post on SCUSA much. You can even say 4 of all my posts were ever in SCUSA posted but I don't need to post there since I have little to no interest in HMS Pumpkin Pie. My personal interest lies in HMS Harmony a canon ship which is there to debate H/Hr based on canon. The reason for that is I have a different background. Different as some shipper I do ship because I read it in canon and not because one Fic was so amazing. But I understand it and accept it that they like more to ship like that. If it would bother me more and I had a desire for a ship which debate H/Hr on FA as canon then I could start an own ship but I don't.
Of course, tybalt-quin tries to bring sanity and rationality back in, but when do such things work on wankers?
t-q: Just to ask a question - but why would a 13 year old be any more affected by a teacher parent 'ship' than a 'same gen' ship between underage characters? For example, if your concern is that such ships 'normalise' potentially abusive behaviour then why not abolish the underage ships as well? After all, if you're going on canon timelines then Draco/Ginny, Hermione/Harry, Hermione/Ron and so on and so forth are all under the age of 16 which (in the UK - and recognising that different countries have different ages of consent) would amount to the equivalent of statutory rape.
Patil makes a long response on page 4, but I'm not going to C&P...I'm just lazy.
Ah, Harry Potter Fandom, how I love thee!
Edited because I am an idiot and forgot to put the URL to the wank in.
