hotpinkdragones
2003-04-24 11:11 pm UTC (link)

Hmmm ... I do understand what she's getting at here, which is why I hate drabble (or restricted word number) challenges. Many people participate because they think they can spew out 100 words and get feedback. Then some people spew out fifty of these things and expect pats on the head for *all* of them.

There are people who understand the drabble concept and know what they're getting into. They aren't the majority of those writing drabbles. Drabbles themselves tend to be kind of wanky.

-hp

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*rolls eyes*

ingrid
2003-04-25 12:04 am UTC (link)

The message is what it is, but the tone is total crap. Wet blanket much?

Yeah, I'm a trailer-trash, spit-out-ma-fic, feedback whore -- why do you ask? I'd be more sympathetic to the argument if the drabbles were clogging the archives or the SV friends' lists, but they really are confined to a single community specifically designed for that purpose and the drabbles are posted only once a week.

So what's the problem? Stay away from the place if the drabbles aren't up to your particular brand of snuff. It reads more like a rant against not "earning" your feedback the "proper way" more than anything else as far as I can see and that's wankish in the extreme.

I've heard many people say this weekly bit of writing has helped get them back on track or stopped them from giving up writing completely. I personally think many writers do it more for the purpose of "unstalling" than getting cheap feedback, but what do I know? I run on the unsophisticated side myself.

::: munching on Twinkie and washing myself with a rag on a stick ::::

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	Re: rolls eyes bohicamouse 2003-04-25 05:15 am UTC (link)
	washing myself with a rag on a stick Simpsons love, man. That's like the best line ever. (Reply to this)(Parent)

ymfaery
2003-04-25 12:55 am UTC (link)

...

Boy, am I glad I didn't have someone like her for an English teacher. The ones I had for creative writing usually tell their students to get the words out, see if there's anything useful, then edit accordingly. It's the "edit accordingly" part that a lot of people get stuck on, but she seems to want to stop people at the "get the words out" part. Or that she wants them to not even *try*. Way to encourage new writers there.

Yes, it's a challenge. You know what that means? Not everyone will succeed. Hello, reality check?

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	cesare 2003-04-25 01:41 am UTC (link)
	Yes, it's a challenge. You know what that means? Not everyone will succeed. Excellent point. That does kinda pinpoint what's lame about this. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	telesilla 2003-04-25 01:13 am UTC (link)
	laughs I have drabbles to thank for a recent burst of creativity that has lead to (among other things) a rather large story. Fuck her and the horse she rode in on. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	iczer6 2003-04-25 01:49 am UTC (link)
	>>Fuck her and the horse she rode in on.>> Now, now we shouldn't go dragging innocent animals into this... Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	madmouth 2003-04-25 02:02 am UTC (link)
	you're no fun (Reply to this)(Parent)

	soy_latte 2003-04-25 02:04 am UTC (link)
	Well, it could have been a pwetty beaded horse! Those things only look innocent. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sagralisse 2003-04-25 03:38 am UTC (link)
	I think that technically, that should be fuck her and the really stinky horse carcass that she rode in on which was too dead to propel itself and had to be dragged along by a team of improperly-raised hyenas. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	telesilla 2003-04-25 04:12 am UTC (link)
	But that would have been icky!!! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	backfromspace 2003-04-25 06:06 am UTC (link)
	You mean that poor old dead horse she was flogging? I don't think she's given up yet. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	parlance 2003-04-25 06:14 pm UTC (link)
	My cousin likes to say "Fuck her and the horse she fell off of." (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ymfaery 2003-04-26 03:18 am UTC (link)
	That's so unfair to the horse. It was trying to get rid of her after all. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	threegoldfish 2003-04-29 10:09 pm UTC (link)
	I've always been a fan of "...and the hampster you rode in on." Just that much more insulting, and less dangerous to equines. (Reply to this)(Parent)

I hate to say it...

purplepopple
2003-04-25 06:16 am UTC (link)

"A drabble is meant to be a technical challenge, not an excuse to put any old thing down on the page quickly and call it a story (and get that precious feedback and feeling of validation). I don't like to make huge generalizations about the writing process, but I think it's safe to say that if you're unsophisticated enough not to understand that, you're fairly unlikely to rise to the challenge."

But I agree with this person. Drabbles were originally intended to be 100 words long. I don't know if that convention is still being held to, then drabbles are much harded than traditional prose. Making something cohesive, interesting, in character, and technically correct in 100 words is difficult.

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ymfaery
2003-04-25 06:55 am UTC (link)

I don't disagree with the fact that writing short stories/drabbles/whatever is harder than writing full-length novels. I know I have a hard time writing *anything* short. /me points to the rest of her comment as an example

What I disagree with is the way she seems to be telling people that if they don't have a specific level of writing experience, they should not even try. She seems to assume that everyone who tries writing in that format and doesn't succeed was only doing it for feedback or other "shallow" reasons, rather than, say, just trying to see if they could write something in 100 words or less.

Like I said in an earlier comment, not everyone answering a challenge will succeed. You will have people who fail or find out that they don't like/can't fulfill the restrictions and decide to drop. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't have tried in the first place. How will a person know whether or not they can do something if they don't bother trying?

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ladysorka
2003-04-25 05:55 pm UTC (link)

Considering that I'm the only person in the world who finds it easier to write drabbles than stories (but then, the longest 'story' I ever managed to write was 3 pages long, and that was padding the thing...), I must laugh, and laugh, and laugh.

Honey, for some of us, getting the whole story out in 100 words is 100 times easier, and of a much higher quality, than trying to pad the thing to get 1000-10000 words.

Different strokes for different folks. (bitch)

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	katythayn 2003-04-25 08:17 pm UTC (link)
	Word. A thousand times, word. But then again, I obviously can't know my own writing style, because Sarah T. has already explained to me that I can't POSSIBLY find it easier to write such a DIFFICULT thing. Thank you so, so much, Sarah. You've shown me the light, and now I will only write really really really long WIPs that never ever end. That make you feel any better? (Reply to this)(Parent)

hopeluthor
2003-04-25 08:01 pm UTC (link)

P.S. Yes, I know. Shooting fish in a barrel. Still, wank! ::points::

Of course, the real wank you're not copping to is the fact that you're still so pissed a year later that Sarah corrected your grammar at Wizard World, that you sit on her blog like a vulture and wait for her to say something inflammatory just so you can run back here and post it. Personal vendetta much?

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amandatwop
2003-04-26 12:56 am UTC (link)

Sarah would wank whether we were here pointing it out or not, so what's wrong with bringing it here? Personally, I applaud

deeablo for even being able to read Sarah T.'s blog without throwing her monitor at the wall in a fit of apoplectic rage. I myself gave up long ago--shortly before I gave up on the idea of the fandom as a whole everbeing able to resolve this issue.

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deeablo
2003-04-26 01:25 am UTC (link)

Personally, I applaud deeablo for even being able to read Sarah T.'s blog without throwing her monitor at the wall in a fit of apoplectic rage.
Aw, thanks Amanda. Luckily, my monitor is safe. You see, I would have to give a hang about Sarah to get angry, and she's so not worth the time or effort. Point and laugh? Sure! Give a shit? Nope.

Also, be careful; you might get pulled into the "vendetta net" for agreeing with me. Then again, all F_W members are stupid, drooling hyenas (or vultures!) who eat babies and target certain people out of jealousy or some sort of deep-seated resentment left over from high school. d

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deeablo
2003-04-26 01:17 am UTC (link)

Ooooh, fun! Another one of Sarah's defenders has come to play. Let's clarify:

the real wank you're not copping to is the fact that you're still so pissed a year later that Sarah corrected your grammar at Wizard World
She did not correct my grammar. She corrected a friend of mine's grammar. That's incredibly rude, especially if you've just met the person. So I will not be "copping to" that "fact." Thanks. And Sarah herself did not speak with perfect grammar or elocution during WizardCon -- she was too busy squeeing over Michael Rosenbaum to be completely coherent. Pot, kettle, yadda yadda.

Make sure you know the facts before accusing me, okay? I'm more than happy to share my side of this story, wanky or no. Where did you hear this?

that you sit on her blog like a vulture
Are you saying that her blog is a dying or dead and rotted animal? I can agree with that.

Personal vendetta much?
I make no secret of my dislike for Sarah, just as she makes no secret of her dislike for the HP fandom and anyone who disagrees with her characterization (re: woobification) of Lex Luthor. Sarah has alienated and offended many. At times I have even agreed with her opinions (yes, really), but her holier-than-thou elitist attitude and condescending tone nullified their veracity. Oooh, big words. And from somebody who DIDN'T go to Harvard.

Also, how is me pointing out her wankitude different from her vendetta against people who merely READ fandom_wank? Will you get in trouble for (1) reading this and (2) posting here? I know that Sarah cut ties with a person who merely mentioned F_W in his/her LJ. Sarah demanded an apology and issued an ultimatum: F_W or Sarah herself. This person wasn't even a member of the F_W community. That didn't matter to Miss T.: said offender had not condemned F-W to the darkest hole of hell and for that the person should beg forgiveness. Talk about "a bitter, destructive feud."

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	hopeluthor 2003-04-26 01:28 am UTC (link)
	Okay! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	deeablo 2003-04-26 01:35 am UTC (link)
	Clever. Really. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sorchar 2003-04-26 02:01 am UTC (link)
	Apparently, she doesn't get that the "okay!" is meant to discourage trolls, as opposed to being whipped out whenever someone uses logic and facts to make a point in a debate. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	deeablo 2003-04-28 06:33 pm UTC (link)
	Okay! Er, I mean Word! heh heh. No surprise. This "technique" is also heavily favored by The T herself. Logic and facts are her enemies.L (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sorchar 2003-04-26 02:00 am UTC (link)
	Copycat. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Everybody does it

misswindy
2003-04-26 02:21 am UTC (link)

At times I have even agreed with her opinions (yes, really), but her holier-than-thou elitist attitude and condescending tone nullified their veracity.

You know, it's funny you should say that. Because sometimes, I thought I found myself agreeing with some of her opinions, but since according to Sarah I'm an illiterate moron because I'm Hispanic and bilingual, I realized I must have just misunderstood what she said or something. :)

I think this kind of nullifies the claim against Sarah being somehow violated or impinged upon because people who don't like her read her journal, since the above link will make her the pot going, "Hot dayum, kettle, you sure are DARK!"

I wouldn't hold that against Dee OR Sarah, personally. I believe all sides will agree that morbid curiosity gets the best of everyone at one point or another. ;)

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	Re: Everybody does it tintin 2003-04-26 03:26 am UTC (link)
	Because sometimes, I thought I found myself agreeing with some of her opinions, but since according to Sarah I'm an illiterate moron because I'm Hispanic and bilingual, I realized I must have just misunderstood what she said or something. :) spitting mad I had not seen that. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Everybody does it cesare 2003-04-26 05:18 am UTC (link)
	Wow. That fight you linked to? You owned. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Everybody does it ingrid 2003-04-28 05:32 pm UTC (link)
	Didn't she now? It was like watching a soccer player kick the most brilliant goal ever. WHAM! Even if the net was left wiiiide open ... (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Everybody does it

misswindy
2003-04-28 06:13 pm UTC (link)

*Blush* Thank you. I'd forgotten I went off on her later on down the line in that entry. To put it in context, that was the week after she and Livia posted about me 12 times collectively in one week, all 12 times unflattering and nasty. They're down to like twice a month these days, which I consider an improvement. But it sure makes their self-styled martyrdom of "We're sooooo picked on!!!!!" *hilarious*!

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	Re: Everybody does it sorchar 2003-04-26 07:02 am UTC (link)
	Goddamn. She's raised being a condescending snot to a whole new level. Or should I say, lowered it. I wonder if you were bilingual in say, French and English, if she would have said the same thing. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Everybody does it chaya 2003-04-27 08:11 pm UTC (link)
	Ahem. Freedom and English. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Everybody does it darkrose 2003-04-26 07:10 am UTC (link)
	Damn. That raises condescending to a whole new level. Better a plagiarist than a racist, thanks. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Everybody does it nevadafighter 2003-04-26 07:26 am UTC (link)
	I'm sure it's cool and all, but thank God I'm not in the SV fandom. I thought I had enough trouble dealing with the psychos and ratbags in the Monkees fandom--this chick takes the fucking cake, pie, and the whole damn pastry store. Yeesh. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Everybody does it misswindy 2003-04-28 06:42 pm UTC (link)
	this chick takes the fucking cake, pie, and the whole damn pastry store. If I were her, I'd spend my days in pastry stores too, you know, to numb the pain. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Everybody does it nevadafighter 2003-04-28 10:02 pm UTC (link)
	If I were her I'd shoot myself. ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Everybody does it ymfaery 2003-04-30 02:19 pm UTC (link)
	...you think anyone would actually let her have a gun to begin with? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Everybody does it lanning 2003-04-28 03:45 am UTC (link)
	A truly repulsive remark in every way. If you like this, please take it. And try to ignore the hot air. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Squeeeeeeee!!!!!! misswindy 2003-04-28 06:44 pm UTC (link)
	I love it! Thank youuuuuuuu! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Everybody does it ymfaery 2003-04-30 02:16 pm UTC (link)
	/me eyes icon longingly. I wish I was more fluent in either Chinese or Japanese... sigh (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Everybody does it deeablo 2003-04-28 04:37 pm UTC (link)
	I wouldn't hold that against Dee OR Sarah, personally. But . . . but . . . that's not what you told me last night! Wah! Then again, English is your second language. Perhaps you didn't know that "hold it against me" is ALWAYS to be taken literally. Hee hee!a (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Everybody does it misswindy 2003-04-28 06:46 pm UTC (link)
	But . . . but . . . that's not what you told me last night! OK, fine, I wouldn't hold it against Sarah. leers (Reply to this)(Parent)

misswindy
2003-04-26 02:10 am UTC (link)

I hereby grant you all permission to write asstastic famewhoring drabbles to your little hearts' content.

Ready?

Begin. Writing. Crap. Now!

Yeah, I know that meant fuck-all to everyone on this group. As well it should have. I have no idea why Sarah T. thinks her ~~mass of hot air~~ opinion should be any different.

Deeablo, dahhhling, is anything she (or anyone who DOESN'T find her utterly socially unacceptable) says or does really offensive to you any more? I've become so desensitized to fandom people's social retardation. I think you must be a lot less cynical than me. I'm with Amanda on not even being able to trudge through her journal. But when I see stuff like this from her and/or her crew, it never stuns or offends me anymore. Just makes me shake my head and yawn.

Say, did you know she and her girl Livia on a friend of mine's journal recently mentioned YET AGAIN the *year old* drama we had last summer in which I made a journal icon of someone else's photo manip, fully credited, and she went totally apeshit on me? Dude, I'd forgotten all about that. I'm sure the artist, who suggested I ignore them and thanked me for the lovely icon, can't remember who fuck-all we all are. Yet they're still harping and sniping about it.

"Talk about personal vendettas." ;)

Oh, and you have the most impeccable grammar of anyone I've ever met. Which is understandable considering what you do for a living (TV Guide crossword puzzles, in case you were all wondering.) I try to talk extra nice-like whenever I'm around you. :)

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deeablo
2003-04-28 04:34 pm UTC (link)

Deeablo, dahhhling, is anything she (or anyone who DOESN'T find her utterly socially unacceptable) says or does really offensive to you any more?
Of course it offends me, but I don't get angry about it like I did back in the day. Plus, knowing that people who never watched Buffy/Angel and Smallville also find Sarah T. annoying-as-fuck makes me smile. Her hypocrisy is glaringly apparent; all I do is point it out. And laugh.

I think you must be a lot less cynical than me.
Okay, now this makes me chortle!

But when I see stuff like this from her and/or her crew, it never stuns or offends me anymore. Just makes me shake my head and yawn.
I'm with the shaking-head crowd. Snerk. I guess I'm just amazed that she has a crew..

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misswindy
2003-04-28 06:53 pm UTC (link)

I guess I'm just amazed that she has a crew.

I think all three of them are well intentioned, but misguided.

Ha! No, seriously.

I think it's like...

In every crowd of friends, there's always this one person that you know is all right, but you can't really figure why s/he's an asshole to everyone but y'all, but you kind of tolerate him/her anyway because you know s/he can be cool and y'all have fun together, so you keep him/her around and feel obligated to put up a fight when everyone rightfully calls your friend on his/her shitty behavior. Or you just stay silent and pat your friend's hand when s/he bellyaches about how s/he can't understand why everyone's so MEAN to him/her. Waaaaaaaaaaaah.

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	sorchar 2003-04-28 07:15 pm UTC (link)
	I had a boyfriend like that once. But eventually I figured out why everyone was so mean to him, and I dumped him. G (Reply to this)(Parent)