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	iczer6 2004-05-12 06:30 am UTC (link)
	I already posted this in I-Wank. http://www.journalfen.net/community/i_wank/23594.html (Reply to this)(Thread)

	sarajayechan 2004-05-12 06:52 am UTC (link)
	I noticed ^^; (Reply to this)(Parent)

	psychofangirl 2004-05-12 06:34 am UTC (link)
	GRAAAAAA!!! You beat me to it! Did you catch her OP afteward though? (Reply to this)

	(Anonymous) 2004-05-12 07:03 am UTC (link)
	Well, it is well written--I admit--but I do rather resent the fact that they think that the Catholic church is repressive. I mean, yeah, it's traditional and all but I don't think Catholics are as against on the homosexuality issue as other religions. But then again I'm probably brainwashed and religion is another wank altogether. (Reply to this)(Thread)

darkrose
2004-05-12 08:44 am UTC (link)

Well, let's see: the Archbishop of Boston is busy trying to convince everyone that gay marriage is the end of civilization as we know it. Cardinal Ratzinger of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (formerly known as the Inquisition), published a document last year claiming that gays and lesbians adopting was "violence against children." (Pot, let me hit you over the head with the fucking kettle.)

The big difference between the official Church position on homosexuality is that they're marginally more polite about saying, "We think you're evil sinners and you're all going to hell" than most of the evangalistic Protestants.

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ari_
2004-05-12 02:03 pm UTC (link)

It's true about that the high-ups in the Vatican are rather strictly against some things, but the reality (at least here - I'm in Austria) is that it's not enforced in the individual churches.

For example, my mother is divorced and remarried, and the priest at her church has no problem allowing her to communion (well, they talked about it. He said he'd probably mind if she was on husband 7 and shagging other men on the side), even if that is, technically, against what the head of church says. Or course, things vary from church to church, based on how liberal or conservative the priest is.

You're probably going to run into a problem if you have an alternative lifestyle and live in a very small town somewhere in the middle of nowhere, but then, in such a case, the church is just going to be one of your many problems...

A lot of the clergy here does judge what the Vatican says against what Jesus said, and will then do what they think is best for their parish. They know that they'd lose too many people if they enforced everything that the Vatican says strictly. Some do, but then, there's an audience for that, too.

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eilan
2004-05-12 06:12 pm UTC (link)

Yes, but I am one of those weird people who went to a Catholic school and kindergarten, has a mother who works at a Catholic kinderharten, is actually a believing Protestant and knows that the 'base' of the Catholic church is definetely not reflected by the Pope and the Cardinals/Bishops.

"than most of the evangalistic Protestants"

In my city, the Protestant 'priesters' have no problem at all with homosexuals, believe me. I know two of them (husband and wife) personally.

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	eilan 2004-05-12 06:18 pm UTC (link)
	Should may be add that I'm from Europe (Germany, a country nearly equally inhibited by Protestants and Catholics) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	banal_o_rama 2004-05-12 07:08 am UTC (link)
	...Chatholic? :D It's like Jack Chick wrote teenyangst yaoi! (Reply to this)(Thread)

	sarajayechan 2004-05-13 12:32 am UTC (link)
	...THAT is a scary image. XD (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ichigatsu 2004-05-12 07:26 am UTC (link)
	No way could there be a Roman Catholic government. Hell, you can't even get different Catholic orders and prelatures to work together. (Hello, Opus Dei and Jesuits, I'm looking at you.) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	nakannimi 2004-05-12 07:34 am UTC (link)
	Phillip Pullman makes an ultra-powerful Catholic church work in His Dark Materials, but it takes place in an alternate universe where the reformation never happened. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	flax 2004-05-12 07:39 am UTC (link)
	Only plausible near-future (for a given definiton of 'near', of course) religious goverment i've seen is Heinlien's ...If This Goes On novellete. And that's very much not Christian, thank god. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iczer6 2004-05-12 08:07 am UTC (link)
	Yeah but Pullman's like 'good' and actually knows WTF he's talking about. Adores HDM. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

nakannimi
2004-05-12 04:43 pm UTC (link)

Yes, knowing WTF you're talking about makes a big difference. The most amusing thing about this story to me was this:

In 2006 the world was prospering, terrorism was long a thing of the past, and slowly, the world was being rebuilt, rising from the rubble of many meaningless wars brought upon by the mistakes of to many men given to much power and money.

That's TWO YEARS from now. Supposedly, in two years the world was destroyed by war, terrorism was ended, and the world was rebuilt enough to be said to be prospering?

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	iczer6 2004-05-12 10:14 pm UTC (link)
	What can I say, those two years are gonna be pretty busy. Maybe I can loot me an Gamecube! Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)

	croik 2004-05-12 07:47 am UTC (link)
	Whee! My first time participating in wank. wipes away small tear (Reply to this)(Thread)

	toxictattoo 2004-05-12 06:40 pm UTC (link)
	[hugs croik close] And we are sooooo proud of youuuuuuu.... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sarajayechan 2004-05-13 12:34 am UTC (link)
	^_^ (Reply to this)(Parent)

nicolae
2004-05-12 06:24 pm UTC (link)

The thing that gets me?

This happened. If for gays you read Cathars in the thirteenth century. Why make UP people the Church has killed when there are plenty of examples? This is my rant with the Da Vinci Code, too. (Well, aside from being poorly written, and this also is.) A novel about a modern dualist theology like the Albigensians, with Dan Brown-type "revelations" about the Church, but actually WELL WRITTEN...

Fuck, now I want to write this.

And I need a tissue to wipe this up. I wanked some.

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gal_montag
2004-05-12 07:22 pm UTC (link)

Okay, I didn't read the story, but I tend to think they were a little hard on her. Because, yeah, the concept of a world government is a difficult one (although Sci-fi writers have been doing it forever) but rather than rip apart the concept which could have been interesting maybe they could heve said, y'know suspension of disbelief not in effect here maybe find a way to make me believe your story rather than OMG! That would never work!

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cie_anthy
2004-05-12 07:33 pm UTC (link)

I didn't really think they were harsh at all. People posted critiques - that's often why people will post stuff on public forums - to get critiques. And the OP didn't really seem to handle it very well at all. Everyone was (almost entirely) polite, even after the OP got offended. ::shrug:: At least, that's how I read it. If I'd been the one critiquing, I think I would've said stuff very similar. (Though I would have tossed in a couple of compliments, too).

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gal_montag
2004-05-12 07:56 pm UTC (link)

No, not harsh, just a little rough. I think everyone tended towards the mature end of things, even the OP. I just think her story *could* work and would have the potential to be very good.... Okay backpedaling here. Maybe the only thing that made me think it was harsh was the lack of compliment. When I give CC I tend to soften it with a this was really great, but... because I see no reason to CC something that's just unreadable. If it's got potential, y'know, say so.

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(Anonymous)
2004-05-13 04:06 am UTC (link)

People did say that it's got potential. But they also said that she needs to make some serious revisions (which she does) and she basically said "It's fiction, it's my story, so I'm not changing it! Nya!" And, well, what's the point if you're not even willing to improve?

*shrug* It story itself, to me, is really...um...immature, would be the best way to put it. Which seems to be a rather accurate reflection of the author...

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	Re: gal_montag 2004-05-14 03:00 am UTC (link)
	I guess I just take it for granted that most people don't care if/when their writing could use improvement and most of the time I really don't bother with CC at all unless I know the author. (Reply to this)(Parent)

iczer6
2004-05-12 10:19 pm UTC (link)

But the thing is it's not really a flat out fantasy or sci-fi story.

If the setting was in a world the author had created then I'd have an easier time swallowing it.

However she seems to be going for at least a degree of realisim with her story by using real world politics and events.

The thing is when you do that you have to know your shit, or else everyone who didn't sleep through history class is gonna either laugh themselves sick, or beat their heads against the wall.

My issue was with the 'OMG the Church is sooooo EVAL' tone that the story had.

Icz

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	sarajayechan 2004-05-13 12:34 am UTC (link)
	Well, I'm writing a novel taking place in an alternate version of the present where Gore won the election and then a Bushlike figure storms in and tries to take over, so... XD; I can't criticize her there. But yeah, she did seem to have an OMG THE CHURCH IS EVIL attitude. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: gal_montag 2004-05-14 02:58 am UTC (link)
	Eh, I should have read it. I think, though, that I wouldn't have liked it even if I had. Nit because of the suspension of disbelief thingy, but I just kinda of hate those me/us against the homophobic church/parents/world/etc. (Reply to this)(Parent)

redwarrior
2004-05-13 02:44 am UTC (link)

I didn't like this very well, it was too one-dimensional and black-and-white as a story. Evil!Christianity versus GoodPersecutedUnbelievablyBishi!Gays. -__-; Human beings have complex motivations, and may be doing seemingly good things for immoral purposes, or vice versa.

~~This is why I don't like fangirls getting into politics, they almost invariably fuck it up.~~

It also reminds me of a story I started once where there literally WAS a battle of the sexes in the future [due to a flawed feminist movement], and the males emerged victorious. However, since a number of men were still uncomfortable with the prospect of homosexuality, bioengineering firms started making biologically-based female androids to be used as servants and prostitutes [as well as making artificial eggs and external uteri for developing fetuses]....and the men are so used to being male chauvinists that they don't see that the 'droids are actually intelligent. Add to that the fact that the president of a major bioengineering firm and his male partner have decided to concieve a "Mistake" (i.e., a female) on purpose to be the heir to their company...and you get some intersting stuff. ^__^

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	(Anonymous) 2004-05-13 04:18 am UTC (link)
	..I <3 your story idea and demand that you write and publish it NOW. cough XD (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Has anybody noticed this? serai 2004-05-13 02:54 am UTC (link)
	It's christianity vs. homosexuality not about the other religions. Uh, homosexuality is a religion? WTF? Did I miss something in school? If homosexuality is a religion, then I wanna see the Pope! Or the High Priestess. Either one would be fine. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	backfromspace 2004-05-13 03:23 am UTC (link)
	I call Pope. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2004-05-13 03:44 am UTC (link)
	I only have one argument with the whole thing...lack of pargraphs. I didn't get past the "Eden:2006" or whatever that was, my brain was leaking out of my ears at the sheer amount of text with not enough breaks. I know its pathetic, but I have a short attention span...I need the Readers Digest Condensed version. (Reply to this)

	pradaloz 2004-05-13 04:18 pm UTC (link)
	Maybe it's just because I don't take anything seriously enough, but the thing that made me laugh the hardest is the idea of Toronto being THE FORBIDDEN CITY (said in the movie trailer voice o' DOOM). Dun dun DUN!!! (Reply to this)