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Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2004-05-16 19:55:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:energetic

Stop the keyboards! Did you know that fanfic is "horrible" and "distasteful?"
(Note to self: Stop doing random LJ interest searches. You have enough to do with your life).

Over on LJ, there's a community called stopthefic. Its userinfo starts out this way:

Do you hate fanfic? So do we! We hate it, we think it is the worst atrocity since Barbra Streisand, and this community is for those of you who share our views on this unnecessary evil that is pervading our lives on a daily basis.

We're creative types who prefer originality in writing and we hate to see the creations of fellow artists and writers ruined by talentless individuals who place their original characters in disgusting or just stupid situations. Our basic motto: be original!!


Yes, because three exclamation points at the end of a sentence is a way to make people take you seriously.

I honestly am not sure whether or not this is a joke, but if it is, nobody's admitting it, and this introductory post is just too damn beautiful (and wanky).

Most of these characters are copyrighted, thus when someone posts stories all over the Web using the names and likenesses of these characters, they are probably doing something illegal, and definitely doing something distasteful.

So she couldn't be bothered finding out if it was actually illegal?

Then there's the story of how one person's life was changed for the worse by Elmo fanfic:

I came across what I assumed would be a clean, family-friendly, smut-free tribute to the furry red guy with the dainty orange nose, but no...it was...sorry, this is still so difficult to talk about...it was a form of muppet porn cleverly disguised with the name "muppet slash". Thinking that this was some sort of tribute to Elmo by Slash, the multi-talented guitarist formerly of Guns 'N Roses, currently collaborating with Scott Weiland in Velvet Revolver, I clicked on the link, and my innocence was instantly shattered.

Well, all right, that's a highly "original" interpretation of slash (and as Azzie the Anon says, this one's probably a troll). The rest of the posts and the rest of the community seem entirely in wank earnest.

I always thought that when people claimed to be traumatized by badfic it was, you know, a joke.

ETA: Oooh! Anonymouse tells it like it is!



(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)


(Anonymous)
2004-05-17 05:02 am UTC (link)
He he he, as it says in the info:

Have a sense of humor! Yes, we are serious in our hatred of fanfic, but even we'll laugh at the really bad stuff (well, laugh at the writers, anyway). So sit back and enjoy.

Yeah, it's kinda a joke, but there are some people out there just morally opposed to fan fiction, get over it. That Elmo Slash icon is great, by the way, LOL

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]melange
2004-05-17 05:15 am UTC (link)
But *why* is fanficition morally wrong? While I understand not liking fanfic, or even finding the bad stuff amusing, I really don't get why anyone would actually be morally opposed to it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]toxictattoo
2004-05-17 05:20 am UTC (link)
I'm sort of lost as to why they read it if they are so opposed to it. Wouldn't most people just stay away from what they don't like?

I mean, it's like they deliberately torture themselves with 'the nasty fanfic', just to have something to be offended by.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rachelmap
2004-05-17 01:21 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, like some of the GAFFers do.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2004-05-17 05:24 am UTC (link)
Well, I feel that fanfic allows for people to just steal characters already created by someone else, thus they aren't using their own creativity and aren't really creating anything new. I guess it's OK to write it, but it bugs me when people publish it online and act like its their own original stuff, when it's not. They should be spending that time creating their own original work, I think.

And slash, ugh... Here's an example: I am a huge, huge fan of Owen Wilson and Ben Stiller, I respect them both immensely, and I highly doubt they'd enjoy reading slash about themselves online. Chances are they're too busy to even find this crap about themselves online, but nonetheless, I know if I were famous I would be disgusted if I read people writing stories about me having sex with my best friend. Yuck! It's one thing to imagine it, it's another thing to write it down and share it with the world. I mean, if you were heterosexual would you appreciate people writing gay stories about you and posting them all over the Internet? I doubt that. It's all about respect, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. That is all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]einini
2004-05-17 05:27 am UTC (link)
If somebody wants to do unto me as I've done, I request Angelina Jolie.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2004-05-17 11:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-05-17 02:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2004-05-18 03:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-05-18 04:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2004-05-18 04:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-05-18 05:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]littlest_lurker, 2004-05-17 05:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-05-17 09:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sadisticferret, 2004-05-18 12:46 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-05-18 05:59 am UTC

[info]munchkinott
2004-05-17 05:32 am UTC (link)
This is the same Owen Wilson and Ben Stiller who were in the Starsky & Hutch remake?

...

Thought so.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-05-17 05:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jrs1980, 2004-05-17 10:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]diamonde, 2004-05-17 05:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]munchkinott, 2004-05-17 08:49 am UTC

[info]melange
2004-05-17 05:32 am UTC (link)
Well, I feel that fanfic allows for people to just steal characters already created by someone else, thus they aren't using their own creativity and aren't really creating anything new

Obviously, we have very different reasons for writing. Whether I'm writing fan, or original fic I do it because I like to write, because characters, or story ideas get in my brain and I just feel compelled to put it on paper. I don't write to prove how creative I am, or to make something new (because I really doubt that I'm all that innovative) I do it because I enjoy it. That's part of the reason fanfic appeals to me: while there is a good measure of posturing, there's also a lot of love for just writing stories, for playing with character, and plot, and narrative. But that's just me, of course.

I guess it's OK to write it, but it bugs me when people publish it online and act like its their own original stuff, when it's not.

Personally, I've never seen a fanfic author claim that this work was entirely theirs. Most stories come with a disclaimer, and it's usually assumed that it's all derivative, even when it's not specifically stated. While I'm relatively new to the game, I have yet to see a single writer claim that they created the characters they're writing about.

They should be spending that time creating their own original work, I think.

Why? If they're having fun making things their proud of, and communicating with those who share their interests why should they change? Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that nobody else should.

Here's an example: I am a huge, huge fan of Owen Wilson and Ben Stiller, I respect them both immensely, and I highly doubt they'd enjoy reading slash about themselves online

And a good number of RPS writers think that they wouldn't mind (and I believe that at least one actor has explicitly stated this), and I don't see why their interpretation is automatically less valid than yours. If you feel uncomfortable with stories about real people, I understand. But,again, why should everyone else's tastes mirror yours? Isn't there any room for diverse opinions?

And what about character slash? Most stories (I think... I've never done any kind of survey) are about fictional characters, not real people. If your problem is that these people would be offended IRL, why would it be wrong to write things about people who never existed in the first place?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]melange, 2004-05-17 05:35 am UTC

[info]iczer6
2004-05-17 05:36 am UTC (link)
Well, I feel that fanfic allows for people to just steal characters already created by someone else, thus they aren't using their own creativity and aren't really creating anything new.

Yes because no writer in the history of the world has *ever* reused, or rewritten and already existing story.

'Romeo and Juliet' wasn't based on an old fable, and 'Rosencratz and Guildestren are Dead' is completely original.

And shows like Star Trek and BuffyTVS never, ever borrowed from famous literature or pop culture.

Good to know that writing a Buffy fic means I become Joss Whedon, wished I used this superpower during the last two seasons.

I know if I were famous I would be disgusted if I read people writing stories about me having sex with my best friend.

Please see my icon for a response, simply replace Orlando Bloom with the actor of your choice.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]hotpinkdragones
2004-05-17 05:44 am UTC (link)
Writing fan fiction is about knowing your audience. There's absolutely no call, no market for original fiction online. The real world fiction publishing market is a pulp quagmire--the chances of any individual person ever being published are so incredibly slim. The slushpile is years deep at any house that still accepts slush.

If you want to write something that'll almost definitely NEVER find an audience, write original fiction.

If you're just looking to play, looking to have a hobby and a fun place to publish and participate, write fan fiction.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-05-17 06:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]hotpinkdragones, 2004-05-17 06:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sistermagpie, 2004-05-17 06:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-05-17 02:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]liarliar, 2004-05-17 07:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-05-17 07:58 pm UTC
Re: - [info]liarliar, 2004-05-17 08:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-05-17 09:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marginalsanity, 2004-05-17 06:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]arabel, 2004-05-17 07:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-05-17 02:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2004-05-17 01:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cousinjean, 2004-05-17 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladysorka, 2004-05-17 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-05-17 09:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosalita, 2004-05-18 05:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]melange, 2004-05-17 06:30 am UTC
Doubting Thomases INC - [info]munchkinott, 2004-05-17 08:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lexin, 2004-05-17 10:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]yankthewank, 2004-05-17 10:34 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-05-17 11:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]zana16, 2004-05-17 02:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]senor_pinata, 2004-05-17 04:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]senor_pinata, 2004-05-17 04:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]liarliar, 2004-05-17 07:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]airawyn, 2004-05-17 07:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]anonon, 2004-05-18 07:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-05-22 06:43 am UTC
Re: - [info]anonon, 2004-05-22 07:37 am UTC

[info]dorian
2004-05-17 05:47 am UTC (link)
Y'all, I am a straight girl, and I want to get famous specifically so that people will write femslash about me.

ME + UMA THURMAN = OTP!!11!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]telesilla, 2004-05-17 06:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tianxiaode, 2004-05-17 06:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2004-05-17 11:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tianxiaode, 2004-05-17 01:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladysorka, 2004-05-17 06:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dorian, 2004-05-17 06:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-05-17 02:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cpip, 2004-05-17 03:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marginalsanity, 2004-05-17 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]littlest_lurker, 2004-05-17 10:24 pm UTC

[info]ladysorka
2004-05-17 05:56 am UTC (link)
Well, if I ever became famous, the very first thing I'd do would be look for RPS about me.

And then I'd read it.

And send scathing (or appreciative) feedback using an alias.

Hell, maybe I'd write some, and invent some fanon about me! (No, really, she has flawless skin. Yes. And those eyes? Not contacts.)

In other words, please don't project your issues onto other people.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]maereth, 2004-05-17 03:51 pm UTC

[info]serai
2004-05-17 06:17 am UTC (link)
Well, I feel that fanfic allows for people to just steal characters already created by someone else, thus they aren't using their own creativity and aren't really creating anything new.

Ah, then I take it you don't like Shakespeare. Well, that tells me all I need to know about you.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]marginalsanity, 2004-05-17 06:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiasian, 2004-05-17 09:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rachelmap, 2004-05-17 01:39 pm UTC

[info]nevadafighter
2004-05-17 06:29 am UTC (link)
Well, I feel that fanfic allows for people to just steal characters already created by someone else, thus they aren't using their own creativity and aren't really creating anything new.

First of all, by using the word "steal" you are addressing people who claim book/movie/TV show/whatever canon characters as their own. The rest of us tend to write disclaimers.

Also, this statement includes people like John Milton, Ezra Pound, James Joyce, and Sir Thomas Malory, who used the Bible, The Odyssey, and various French and British legends respectively to produce their masterpieces. Perhaps the "stopthefic" community can petition a rewriting of literary canon to eliminate these obviously "worthless" pieces of fanfiction. (I realize there is a vast difference between Paradise Lost and Elmo slash fiction, but they are both pieces that draw upon characters and situations that come from elsewhere.)

As for not being creative, that's in the eye of the beholder. To create an "original" character and world isn't easy, but as the author you have the benefit of knowing everything about them, since you created them. But isn't it also true that fan authors have to know their canon well enough to represent it accurately? I think it's pretty damn creative to watch a movie and imagine what happened afterword or write a story that explains how a particular thing came to be—it all involves imagination and trying to say that fanfic isn't as "creative" is a bunch of crap.

You seem to be confusing badfic with fanfic—there are PLENTY of crap fics out there, but condemning ALL fanfic as garbage is a fallacy of argument that will not hold up. Saying that fanfic, collectively, is crap implies that you have read EVERY bit of fanfic on the net and have not found a single story worthwhile. And if you claim that . . . then I'd really like to know what you think of the pink elephants in your bedroom.

They should be spending that time creating their own original work, I think.

Some people don't want to, and it isn't anyone's right or business to tell people what they can and cannot write.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]arabel, 2004-05-17 07:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nevadafighter, 2004-05-17 07:06 am UTC

[info]guinevere33
2004-05-17 06:32 am UTC (link)
I mean, if you were heterosexual would you appreciate people writing gay stories about you and posting them all over the Internet?

Dammit, why does the slash card always get pulled? How is gay sex inherently more disgusting than the het Mary Sue fics that get written? You know, where little miss Self Insert goes and fucks Owen blind? Let's try rewriting that paragraph without the homphobic bias and see if it makes any more sense:


And fantasies, ugh... Here's an example: I am a huge, huge fan of Viggo Mortenson and Miranda Otto, I respect them both immensely, and I highly doubt they'd enjoy reading porn about themselves online. Chances are they're too busy to even find this crap about themselves online, but nonetheless, I know if I were famous I would be disgusted if I read people writing stories about me having sex with my costar. Yuck! It's one thing to imagine it, it's another thing to write it down and share it with the world. I mean, if you were famous would you appreciate people writing porn about you and posting them all over the Internet? I doubt that. It's all about respect, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. That is all.

Nope, still ridiculous. FAMOUS PEOPLE HAVING SEX IS GROSS!!!HOW DARE YOU WRITE ABOUT TEH HOT SEX!!!1?!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]liarliar, 2004-05-17 07:43 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2004-05-17 07:49 am UTC (link)
Well, I feel that fanfic allows for people to just steal characters already created by someone else, thus they aren't using their own creativity and aren't really creating anything new.

You mean like "Troy" and the million stories about King Arthur and those kinds of things?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cmikhailovic
2004-05-17 08:09 am UTC (link)
So, by that logic, Tom Stoppard, Jean Rhys, Charles Frazier, and Jane Smiley all suck ass because their characters and plots are taken from other sources? Because if you're going to set up "total originality" as the pinnacle of artistic expression, than you're going to have to knock Shakespeare, Chaucer, Milton, Virgil -- in fact, a good chunk of the Western literary tradition -- out of the running.

Before you start making grand pronouncements about literary merit, it might be a good idea to learn something about the topic first. Start with the words "intertextuality" and "recursive."

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]chash, 2004-05-17 02:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pipssister, 2004-05-17 05:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sewingmyfish, 2004-05-18 12:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2004-05-21 10:27 am UTC
Re: - [info]sewingmyfish, 2004-05-21 05:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lovelypoet, 2004-05-17 06:47 pm UTC

[info]diamonde
2004-05-17 09:08 am UTC (link)
I mean, if you were heterosexual would you appreciate people writing gay stories about you and posting them all over the Internet?

I'm heterosexual. Do I get to do Britney? Because if they want to write Diamonde/Britney, I could be inclined to pay them. Not much, for I am very poor, but I could probably manage a few dollars Australian and some icons.

I mean, it's fiction. Someone wants to write about me having sex with another girl but disclaim it as all lies? Not a fucking problem. I've had people think I really was sleeping with my best friend, and I wasn't insulted by that either. Maybe I'm unusually secure, but I don't think so. I can just think of way more insulting untrue things that people could be saying about me than that I'm attractive and have a great sex life.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

*eg* - [info]kymscrazy, 2004-05-17 11:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-05-17 02:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sewingmyfish, 2004-05-18 12:19 am UTC
Get a new straw man.
[info]cesare
2004-05-17 09:56 am UTC (link)
Everyone else has refuted you beautifully already, but I'll just add:

would you appreciate people writing gay stories about you and posting them all over the Internet?

Been there, done that, quite enjoyed the stories that paired me with my female co-writer.

You're free to dislike fan fiction, but if you're going to shit all over it in front of the people who love it, at least 'have some respect' for our intelligence and come up with better arguments.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]stalin
2004-05-17 10:31 am UTC (link)
It's comments like that which make me what to go write it. With extra blancmange and whipped cream. Or, better still, whips.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2004-05-18 10:19 am UTC

[info]cairea
2004-05-17 10:50 pm UTC (link)
I mean, if you were heterosexual would you appreciate people writing gay stories about you and posting them all over the Internet?

My entire high school and half of college were convinced my best friend and I were shagging every night. Both of us very heterosexual, and neither of us have ever been more than mildly annoyed that it made trying to actually get dates with guys difficult. People want to write gay porn about me and my female friends? More power to them. I don't care.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


wolfie_thu
2004-05-18 12:32 am UTC (link)
I know if I were famous I would be disgusted if I read people writing stories about me having sex with my best friend.

And I know that if I were famous, I'd love for people to write stories about me getting it on with my best friend. Imagine, people writing porn where YOU get to be the star, the Mary Sue.
T'would be awesome, man.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

(no subject) - [info]hermiones_hymen, 2004-05-18 03:25 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-05-18 05:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarajayechan, 2004-05-18 05:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaseroque, 2004-05-18 01:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladyrogue, 2004-05-23 10:28 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2004-05-17 05:43 am UTC (link)
Do you have any concept how little sense you just made in your little ditribe there?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2004-05-17 05:44 am UTC (link)
Diatribe, even. Boy, I'm on tonight.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]chaobell
2004-05-17 10:18 pm UTC (link)
Your lips are moving, but nothing of substance is coming out.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


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