Current mood:

annoyed

I believe that you are a B/A shipper as much as I believe George Bush won the presidential election.
We all remember the Ducks board, right? Rabid Buffy/Angel shippers, rabid Spike haters, utterly convinced that Buffy was going to turn up in the Angel finale and the two of them were going to walk off into the sunset together?

Obviously, in light of "Not Fade Away", there's some stellar wank to be had.

Sorry this is long, but there's gold here:


KIM200: Okay, first of all that was not what I expected at all! Joss really and truly screwed us! He took a great show and ended it like it was nothing! it was not a great episode for a series finale! What can we get out of it? well if there is a movie , then fine, maybe then bufy could be in it, but if we are left with that, then screw Joss. I was thinking about how it would end, never expecting that it would end like in the middle of a battle??? How are we supposed to feel? Happy?? I was hoping for a BA mention but never happened which did not surprise me, I really thought somehow SMG would find the time to do it, but she did not, I think she is great, but I would have loved to see her tonight!

Jennem takes our name in vain (wink wink nudge nudge): Of course, you can always fandom wank it with 'that wasn't really his signature! he has great handwriting afterall!'

ToriBlue: Considering how vocal the fandom became in regards to SAVING ANGEL...Joss could have gotten away with just about ANY ending. Support for AtS was flowing freely. Instead, Joss chose to act like a petulant child. He chose a truly hollow, meaningless ending. The last ounce of respect I had for that man is well and truly gone. He didn't keep B/A alive...Sarah, David and fanfic. writers took care of that. Joss never had any intention of giving B/A a future.

hope118 gets her Spike on:
So that was the finale , there are no words to say
Except boy did he screw us; in the eppy Fade Away
Angel our vamp was tested, The circle wanted more
Sign over your Shanshu, Joss you're evil to the core
And so the plans were given, take'em to hell tonight
Connor, Angel take on Hammy, wow that seemed alright
So Wes was skewered, Illyria became Fred
A moment of tenderness, then Wes was dead
Lorne walked away, Who's left in the gang?
Angel, Spike survived, take em out with a bang??
And so no resolution, five years and this is it ??
No forever no always, what the heck is this shit..

anneliese: I'm really relieved Ats is over because now it's safe from joss and his merry band of hacks destroying canon.


Monica Ann loses it: Oh, how I hated this crappy finale! What a sucky ending to what was once an unforgettable story. I don't know why I expected anything better, tho....I mean, these were the people who dreamed up the VILE C/A and B/S "romances", so why wouldn't they think it appropriate that Angel should gush over his hot new werewolf girlfriend? They already told us(and showed us) that Angel was over Buffy(and vice versa) several weeks ago.

I'm certain that they congratulated themselves and gave themselves a big ol' pat on the back because they gave us a any type of a B/A shout-out, at all! What?! You didn't recognize it??!!? Don't tell me that you didn't see that dragon flapping by, there at the end, and hear Angel say, "Well, I really want to kill that dragon" and you guys didn't recognize that as the SAME dragon that escaped Glory's hell dimension, when Buffy jumped off the tower in "The Gift"???!! Now, wasn't that big of Joss?!!? Awww, he remembered us after all..the big jerk!!!

blueturtle feeds Buffy's ego (after all, it's All About Her): OK, I tried to stay objective and saw the last ep. at least 3 times to be sure,...but it sucks.
How can you finished 10 years (with Buffy) of stories, emotional links with your fans like this. I feel cheated.

angelryka (was it a bad touch?): This is not a series finale. This did not touch me the way a series finale should.


MyHanh learns an Important Life Lesson: As for the complete disregard for B/A the series ended with - I think I learned a good lesson. I despise any kind of chauvinism, things like "Ours is the superior country/religion/race/generation/whatever." And I think I saw that's what I was feeling about B/A. That I was somehow ENTITLED to a grand B/A ending because I thought it was the superior story of the series. But just because I thought that didn't mean the creator had to think that, or that he was obligated in any way to placate my wishes.

dreamsof4ever sends my mind to the Bad Place: The reason's Joss expressed for ep 20 leads me to believe S6 would be more Doggie/Angel. I can defintely live without that.

Side note: Um, Doggie? Buh?

Finally, SHAWNGF starts some shit: MyHanh: Thanks for the laugh. You never do stop amusing.

MyHanh: I don't know what I said that was funny, but then again, I never understood this need to laugh at other people for having different opinions anyway. One of the things I learned from my whole disappointment here was that there's no good feelings that come from laughing at or insulting other fans. Being a Spike fan, even a b/s fan, or a c/a fan - that doesn't make someone a bad person or a fool. It's a different kind of enjoyment.

cherylforba explains a bizarre acronym: I will tell you what SUW means, it was a spinoff idea for this season. SPIKE UNDER WATER. It was rumored to be loosely based off of Aquaman the comic. Sounded pretty impressive.

tptrek is unamused (and talk about tunnel vision): I can only hope this is some sort of joke. How the heck is Spike having his own underwater show going to help B/A at all? Was it sarcastic? Was it just made up to give hope to those who had none?

Back to cherylforba's post: On another note, I agree that being a fan of C/A or S/B doesn't make you a bad person. It's the constant trash talked by some of these fans about SMG, DB and us in general.
It's the endless taunting and pretending to be something they are not at our board. It's the name calling and never ending Bullshit and sometimes when you aren't allowed to defend yourself, all you can do is laugh.

MyHanh makes some good points, and some weird ones: I think there was always enough ridicule to go around in this online part of the Buffyverse. I just could never see calling someone a rapist lover, what an outrageous insult! Especially as we are all fans of a very dark show where almost all of the characters we loved have done evil and morally indefensible things at times. We are all the victims of the writers, passive audience, not good people and bad people. And the whole Wet Panty thing! Geez, I don't even want to think what they are implying there, but it's such a strange insult to throw coming from another shipper. Are they saying the girls who enjoyed B/s got, um, wet panties from watching it? Ewwww. I'm wondering does that mean we watch our ship with DRY panties??? LOL. Sorry, its not just insulting, it's kind of gross!!!!

tptrek: MyHanh this is where we greatly disagree. I think it is horrible and disgusting that anyone would ship a couple where one of the participants tried to RAPE the other. I can't get behind that choice at all. As far as the argument that Angel was just as bad, the point is we never saw a scene like Seeing Red in which Buffy was shown as the VICTIM of sexual assualt with Angelus. To me, that crossed line for good. I don't hate Spuffy fans but I feel really sorry that they would look to a couple like that as romance. It's called abuse and it's sick and I will never understand shippping Buffy and Spike.


MyHanh beats her head against a brick wall: Yeah, Cheryl, I saw some of that, but I wasn't on the boards too much for Buffy that year. It was kind of a depressing time if I recall. I also saw a lot of insults towards Angel because they had Buffy going back to him after killing Jenny, etc. I always figured we shippers are all in the same boat (even if I don't understand a particular ship) -because just because the writers screw over the character or story we love, it doesn't make us automatically stop loving them. And it doesn't reflect on our personal morality. So I really found that kind of talk very offensive, more than what the show did, since online people after all are REAL people and, much as we love them , Buffy and Angel and Spike are NOT. Plus the talk persisted long after it had need to.

Margot LeFaye once again raises the eternal spectre of Xander's Lie: Xander never grew up, and never took responsibility for the lie he told in B2, or for the condemning Buffy for loving a demon after he, himself, fell for a demon who NEVER ONCE expressed remorse for the evil, death and mayhem she wrought when demonic.

strenghtinnumbers trots out the old "You're just jealous!" argument (post quoted in its entirety, as it is a thing of beauty):
Hangs head in shame, I'm weak, I watched.

I HATED, Angels, last line...JW is soooooo big with the clues and symbolism.
SMG has a tattoo of two dragonflies on her lower back...dragon*flies...maybe, its my imagination on overdrive...
To have that as Angel's last line added to Buffy's last word on BtVS, Spike...and if you wonder how it made me feel, just watch Illyria fist through the face scene.

The jealously JW has exhibited towards the B/A loyalty, yeah, that's the sign of a real genius and talented storyteller.

Time Bomb

Quote:
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GUNN Do you know what the worst part of that place was? Wasn't the basement. At least there, you knew where you stood. Demon was gonna cut your heart out and show it to you. Nah. It was the fake life they gave you upstairs. The wife, kids, all the icing on the family cake.
But somewhere underneath it, there was the nagging certainty that it was all lies, that all the smiles and the birthday candles and the homework were just there to hide the horror. Is that all we're doing here—just hiding the horror?
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This dialogue pretty much sums it up for me.
JW/Storyteller, came right out and point blank said "GET OVER IT" to the committed fans of B/A, didn't work, we still remained true to his promise and expected him to hold up his end of the bargain. Which for whatever reason he chose not to.
Big clue: the line (REWRITE HISTORY) Now, he can justify any changes made...clever,right?
Did we budge, did we say "Oh, Joss, great and genius storyteller, that you are, we follow you blind, do as you wish, forget the promises made at the beginning of the journey." I don't think so!!

So, the last ditch effort of the beep beep storyteller:
JW: My show's been cancelled (rant, rant, pout, pout), Who dare's tell ME, my world's turned to CRAP... what does Levin mean, I haven't held up my end of the bargain?
Telling me the actor's and their talent, have carried 'my show's' for the past several years... and calling me a liar, ME...lie...it's not a lie...... if you're telling a STORY...
And 'Promise'? What PROMISE, I DON'T REMEMBER any promise made... and WTF, 'there's still plenty of time to make things right'...doesn't Levin, know who I am?
I am STORYTELLER MAN, A GENIUS, A KING, A GOD...I can do whatever I choose.
Cancel MY show...IT'S the promise, gotta be the frickin' promise, urm um...that I never made...
Promise, LEVIN, EXPECTS ME, 'STORYTELLER MAN' TO KEEP MY PROMISE...Right...
Okay, you wanna play, we'll play...the fan's... they'll never know the words to our little conversation...
Better get your gloves on, Levin, Ol' Buddy ...cause I'm about to make... YOU... 'The Whipping Boy'
Let's see, dream thing, nah, too lame, no pain...
Of course, "It's all been a lie, from the beginning. No Buffy/Angel couple, no great love, it's all a lie...That'll teach Levin and those foolish die hard fans!!

Jennem argues with tptrek: The same argument could be made that Angel was a pedophile and that we're all pedophile lovers. Obviously a number of us could run that stance into the ground using very simple logic. But that's not the point, is it.

Is there no difference between an en-souled Spike and one that doesn't have one? Anyone who happens to enjoy his character pre-soul and happened to be intrigued by the B/S line is a rapist lover and deserves to be called such?

I left the fandom, for the most part, because I grew tired of the name calling that all sides have participated in at one point or another. I've got my friends, and I'm more than happy to stay in my little hole, away from the net-fandom.

In regards to something as small as a television show and a character couple, no group deserves to be able to point their finger at another and call them a rapist lover, a pedophile supporter, or anything else for that matter. Regardless of how much these shows mean to us, and how touched our lives have been by a fictional couple, it really isn't worth more than the individual standing next to you.

cherylforba: Jen,
I have no idea what your point is. Sorry.

bichonluv questions MyHahn's credentials: I'm going to go out on a limb here...

I've read all your posts, MyHahn, and I have to respectfully offer that I don't see you as an avid B/A shipper. Perhaps you feel you are. Perhaps you were, once. But your posts really seem to be those of a non-shipper (and that's fine, but it would be nice if you just admitted it).

*WE* are not the ones deluding ourselves. Joss fed us B/A all the way, and if you read any of Luc's posts you will see that laid out in evidence from canon. And the references to B/A this season, alone, were enough to keep any B/A shipper hoping...or many, anyway.

Your posts always seem to have little, veiled digs in them. Maybe everyone doesn't see them, but I do. I'm pretty quiet and observant and I do a lot of reading and rarely post. Maybe it's unintentional on your part. This is not an attack...just calling it the way I see it.

cherylforba agrees: Myhan,
I believe that you are a B/A shipper as much as I believe George Bush won the presidential election.
I'm not sure what kind of a cheap thrill your after with your
1. Spike is Angel's equal
2. Lucinda's Proof, which is canon, was as solid as foam.
3. Anyone who see's it this way is deluded
4. B/A was mocked in the finale
5. The die hard fans that insulted JW brought on this finale
How many more do I need to put up? Are you getting the picture? I can only speak for myself obviously but *I* could not be less interested in hearing another word come out of your mouth.

Jennem: Maybe you could have gotten over your bitterness and joined our happy family again but I guess we'll never know.

I'm not really bitter. Just uninvolved. I haven't watched BtVS since season six, and the Angel finale was the first epidode I'd actually intended to watch since S:4. I'm glad you've found a place here, and I'm thankful to Ducks for creating a board where I could meet so many special people, but that's really as far as it goes. Excuse me for being sentimental enough to want to share my episode thoughts with a board that used to consume a great deal of my time when the show actually ended. Wow. That was totally uncalled for on my part wasn't it. Next time I feel the need to be sentimental, I'll just squash it like a bug.

Cats1 embraces pedophilia (or, okay, hebephilia): The board's getting ugly and I won't respond to a lot of it but this is an old argument that I think I've finally got an answer for. ~~ If my love of B/A makes me a pedophile I'm good with it *but* my ship includes necklaces and rings, mutual 'I love yous, first loves, tender kisses, talks outside of windows and a love that's still felt by both even after being separated for years. I'm not sure what the B/Ser's ship but I imagine they see something in B/S that I don't and that's great for them. I don't know what it is and don't care.

trammie77 throws a hissy: If some of you want to start a thread to tear each other apart, by all means, do it! But don't do it HERE.

THIS thread is to talk about something far more precious ... the very last episode of the very last season of Buffyverse. A universe we may never get another glimpse of ever again, except as it lives in our heads and hearts.

And this thread IS to talk about BA in regards to this episode BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THIS BOARD IS ALL ABOUT: BA!!

If the purpose of this thread still isn't clear enough, then contact me and I'll explain it to you.


Cathyness2 amuses herself: The only conclusion I saw with this episode is fanfic. Fanfic.

"Go ahead, write. You know you wanna 69 your keyboard into keeping the show alive. Write my ending for me. I was too busy not caring to bother," Joss Whedon carelessly added.

"If I put Sarah in the finale, I would've HAD to kill her in the most mysogynistic way possible, and then some," joked Whedon.

"I'm so mad that B/A is better than me," whined Jossy.

"I'll make a nice slash wanna-be on Serenity," giggled Whedon.

"I'm so cool," whispered Whedon.

James walks in... naked.

The end.

Monica Ann: Dear Diane,
Thank you a million times over for explaining WHY it is that Buffy and Angel belong together and why they are not an example of "just another couple" that some fans prefer to ship. When I try to explain this, I usually end up shouting hysterically at the computer screen, "Why in the h-ll don't you see that B/A belong together???!!! It should be obvious to everyone in the universe!!!"
And then you come along, and explain it all so logically, calmly and cooly.

BA nostalgia: yes the writers wanted it from the second season of ATS ...
they try to pur Cordy in Angel's arms , and they make him kissing all the girls in the show...had sex with Eve, give him a new love interest ( NIna )and nothing about Buffy !
is for that I 'm disgusted ...joss Whedon created the most wonderful , extraordinary love story ,who made the show so popular and he let it damage , and didn't care about the loyal fans who love an believe in this story from the begining !


SHAWNGF, or possibly her sister: not seeing that we were let down.

Joss let EVERY fan down.

those ads were not for the pure selfish reasons.. they were to thank the actors.. nothing more.

Joss destroyed his own world and bit every fan and every character in the ass. He dint amke any attacks at one group.. all his characters lost theri grace.. and trueness to who they were when they were createed.. all of them....And it's time for every fan group to mourn. Chosen was bad enough.. this he same. Both season 7 andthiss eaosn of angel... joss acted the same spitful way...

Knightfall729, another voice of maturity: I don't understand why many of us here on the BB have said that We didn't get our ending. The ending that we were promised. And please take no offence, because I love B/A as much as anyone here (I'm 100% obsessed, just take a look at my room and hard drive) but...

We're no more important than any other AtS/BtVS fan group out there. We do not deserve any special treatment just b/c we've been around forever, our ship was the one that started in the first season of Buffy, the ship that allowed Angel to start, the ship that does fan campaigns.

Yeah, we're always mentioned, but that's because we're a very vocal group. I personally feel a little embarrassed b/c our rants and raves about how we didn't get our PROMISED ending make us, IMHO, very big-headed and egotistical.

And yes, before anyone says it, I do have too much time on my hands.

Thanks to jwaneeta for the link.