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Tea and Toast ([info]tea_and_toast) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2004-07-12 11:09:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
My first wank ever. It's a growth experience.

This is just a quick follow-up on the weekend's R/Hr shipper wank. [info]prettyveela takes it to her own journal, where she wonders: Is Canon a dirty word in HP fandom?. It veers into wankiness pretty much from the beginning and ends with the bold exhortation (and I say bold, because, really, it's bold): If it applies to you, remain offended.

Right. Good to have your hostility out there in front.


(Post a new comment)

(Reply from suspended user)

[info]lauren
2004-07-12 09:47 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, the way she copied it from the dictionary totally ruined her point.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]prettyveela, 2004-07-13 07:53 am UTC

[info]limyaael
2004-07-12 09:46 pm UTC (link)
*reads post*

Basic translation: Any ship is okay, but only as long as the people who ship it don't argue with me, even when I write a post that is in essence an argumentative essay! No arguing!

This only makes it easier for me, personally, to hope (in order of preference):

1) everyone is still single in the end.
2) Ron and Hermione are dead in the end.
3) there's a final seventh book chapter showing everyone getting married, and a seventh book epilogue showing the crash of all those relationships.

But, actually, I'd rather write fanfic like that, because whatever JKR writes is fine. And it will be sure to cause wank of some kind, so I can still laugh my ass off.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]beccastareyes
2004-07-12 11:14 pm UTC (link)
See, this is why I secretly hope Hermione founds an order of magical nuns. Think of the wacky hijinks!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]teratologist, 2004-07-13 01:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]imbrium, 2004-07-13 02:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]innominate, 2004-07-13 07:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cmikhailovic, 2004-07-14 02:09 am UTC

[info]necronomist
2004-07-13 01:47 am UTC (link)
I'm rooting for Harry vowing celibacy, Hermione taking up with Ginny and everyone else dating someone outside of Hogwarts. Because people do date people they meet in adulthood. I hear they marry them too.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2004-07-13 01:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]calluna, 2004-07-13 05:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2004-07-13 11:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]delfeus, 2004-07-14 05:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fuzzytowers, 2004-07-13 06:43 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-13 10:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]teratologist, 2004-07-13 03:44 pm UTC

[info]selene_avis
2004-07-13 04:28 am UTC (link)
You know, I'm fairly convinced that Ron where die. And Kristen and I came to conclusion that Hermione's going to die 'cause no one has thought of it.

Why don't we petition J. K. Rowling to bring Sirius back to life and kill him again?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-07-13 04:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lasayla, 2004-07-13 07:18 pm UTC

[info]visp
2004-07-12 10:47 pm UTC (link)
I'd say that there is potential for Ron/Hermione to become canon in later books, but it hasn't happened yet.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]hermiones_hymen
2004-07-13 12:30 am UTC (link)
Exactly. That's why I argued that canonthumpers should be introduced to the word subtext in the last version 123.0 of this song that has no end. Until it is spelled out for the world (or at least the oblivious characters themselves) it's not a fact yet.

Just because you like something or think you can find evidence of it because of the way you interpret one sentence doesn't make it canon. You can find "proof" of just about anything. Aberforth/Goat4eva, no?

It doesn't make it wrong, but it also doesn't make it canon. Why are we still talking about this again?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]llorelei, 2004-07-13 03:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]delfeus, 2004-07-14 05:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-13 03:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-07-13 04:45 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-13 07:03 am UTC
(no subject) - roxannelinton, 2004-07-13 01:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hermiones_hymen, 2004-07-14 03:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marks, 2004-07-13 04:39 pm UTC

[info]sistermagpie
2004-07-12 11:38 pm UTC (link)
What's so bizarre is the problem isn't really knowing the definition of canon (which I agree with Isis usually in fandom is used to mean "the authentic work of the author" meaning stuff that is actually in the books, it's the definition of the more vague "R/Hr." People who say it hasn't happened yet mean just that--Ron and Hermione are not together in canon. If they wind up together they will say R/Hr is canon. That's the definition Prettyveela seems to be using too. Imo, when she says one believes in a ship she means you believe these characters will get together. Angua is sort of saying the opposite--s/he doesn't have to believe in anything; she's just identifying a plotline the way she would identify any other, be it this or SPEW.

What Angua was saying was that there was already a plot questioning whether they *would* eventually get together, and that made R/Hr canon. So half the people arguing think that using the expression "R/Hr" to describe something as being canon means you know the future--you're saying what's going to happen. But Angua didn't actually even claim that Ron and Hermione would ever get together. She just said at the moment the question of whether they would was a plot point.

Maybe a good example is Remains of the Day--would one consider the butler and the maid a ship? (Damn, I can't remember their names now.) I'd say there is a romantic plot, yet they never get together. By Angua's definition, imo, Butler/Maid is a canon ship. By other people's definition it's always a potential ship, but never becomes canon.

Or am I totally wrong as well?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]hermiones_hymen
2004-07-13 01:40 am UTC (link)
can·on
n.
An ecclesiastical law or code of laws established by a church council.
A secular law, rule, or code of law.
An established principle: the canons of polite society.
A basis for judgment; a standard or criterion.
The books of the Bible officially accepted as Holy Scripture.
A group of literary works that are generally accepted as representing a field: “the durable canon of American short fiction” (William Styron).
The works of a writer that have been accepted as authentic: the entire Shakespeare canon.


You are correct according to dictionary.com!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]selene_avis
2004-07-13 04:40 am UTC (link)
No, you seem to have a good grasp of the situation.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

hooray!
[info]prettyveela
2004-07-13 07:57 am UTC (link)
Hiiiiiiii Sistermagpie!

*rubs against Sister M's leg*

This is Fandom Wank, so at least mock me a bit. *grin*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: hooray! - [info]sistermagpie, 2004-07-13 05:01 pm UTC

[info]beccastareyes
2004-07-13 11:58 pm UTC (link)
See, this is why I'm glad my fandom uses the term 'traditional' or 'trad' shippers to designate pairings strongly hinted at in canon, but not canon.

Or course then you get the wanky 'It is SO canon!' or 'There aren't any canon pairings, so I can pick on you for liking the traditional pairings' (which is my favorite, because it's hard to argue that a show has no canon pairings when the second season ends with a wedding of two (kinda minor) characters.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]necronomist, 2004-07-14 07:55 pm UTC

[info]photosinensis
2004-07-13 01:03 am UTC (link)
Shipping: the wank that keeps on coming. Take that as you will.

(Reply to this)

(Reply from suspended user)

(Anonymous)
2004-07-13 10:42 am UTC (link)
Voldemort/Winky4eva

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]selene_avis
2004-07-13 04:27 am UTC (link)
If it is canon, there shouldn't be debate over whether or not it is canon, as canon is fact, not interpretation.

Canon is Bellatrix x Rodolphus and Malfoy x Pansy. And for part of The Order of the Phoenix, it is Harry x Cho. And for The Goblet of Fire, canon was Hermione x Viktor, though we have no proof that they ever stopped dating. I suspect that in a later book the coupling of Ron x Hermione will become canon. But at the moment, they are not a couple.

Know what canon is and what canon is not. Lupin x Sirius is not canon. Neither is Malfoy x Harry.

But there is canon, and then there is fan fictions. And in a fan fictions, you are welcome to write whatever coupling you want. So shut up and write me some more Peter x Giant Squid fan fictions.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]iczer6
2004-07-13 04:49 am UTC (link)
And for The Goblet of Fire, canon was Hermione x Viktor, though we have no proof that they ever stopped dating.

Actually we have evidence they ever started dating. The went to the ball and from what I read that was pretty much it.

Viktor wanted to date Hermione, I won't deny that, but I think as it stands they aren't together in a romantic sense.


Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-07-13 05:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sesana, 2004-07-13 05:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-07-13 10:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sesana, 2004-07-14 03:36 am UTC
(no subject) - ataniell93, 2004-07-13 08:16 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-13 11:01 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-13 11:06 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-13 12:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - ataniell93, 2004-07-13 11:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2004-07-13 11:59 pm UTC

roxannelinton
2004-07-13 01:16 pm UTC (link)
*wanking as I type* I...can't....stop...myself

"Canon is...Malfoy x Pansy."

Really?
Because the basis for those two being a couple (OMG, they danced together!111) isn't really much stronger than the R/Hr, H/Hr, Insert Het Ship Here "evidence".

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2004-07-13 05:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-07-13 05:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2004-07-13 05:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-07-13 06:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2004-07-13 06:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-07-13 07:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_o, 2004-07-13 07:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-07-13 05:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]janegraddell, 2004-07-13 07:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-07-13 08:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-13 09:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]selene_avis, 2004-07-13 10:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marks, 2004-07-13 11:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - roxannelinton, 2004-07-15 02:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-07-13 10:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - roxannelinton, 2004-07-15 02:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - roxannelinton, 2004-07-15 01:12 pm UTC

[info]calanthe_b
2004-07-13 05:36 am UTC (link)
I would run away and hide from the shippy fringe of HP fandom, but it's just not possible to get far enough away...

Hence: committed antishipper, me.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Semi-Defense of Shippers
(Anonymous)
2004-07-13 06:41 am UTC (link)
I'm actually a crazy, debate participating, CS thread posting, fluffy fic reading, shipper, but I know I'm nuts. I use shipping as my totally biased bit, so that I can leave my objectivity for the important stuff, i.e. the actual plots and interpretation of characters and relationships. I should probably stick up for the shippers a bit though, for a lot of us, even if our ship doesn't happen, we really won't care in the long run. Other aspects of the books are more important. Some of us could also care less whether our ship is classified as canon now or later or never. A lot of us just like the idea of two characters together and only debate in threads specified for debating cause we're bored, like to argue, and want to present a different interpretation.
I can't log in for some reason, but it's story645 on lj

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Semi-Defense of Shippers - [info]calanthe_b, 2004-07-13 06:56 am UTC
Re: Semi-Defense of Shippers - [info]prettyveela, 2004-07-13 07:55 am UTC
Re: Semi-Defense of Shippers - (Anonymous), 2004-07-14 03:59 am UTC
^^;
(Anonymous)
2004-07-13 11:26 am UTC (link)
Shippers should be writing fics of their 'ship not essays or if they do write an essay they shouldn't argue against other ships.

Opinion of rather rabid 'shipper

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: ^^; - [info]calanthe_b, 2004-07-14 05:28 am UTC
Well Hot Damn
[info]prettyveela
2004-07-13 07:51 am UTC (link)
I got F_W'd. I always thought it would be for something more whore-ish and trashy, but fuck it, I'm a fandom wanker, I can take it.

Not only do I love the saying "If it applies to you, remain offended" I'm also selling the phrase "fuck em and feed em fish" for 19.95

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Well Hot Damn
(Anonymous)
2004-07-13 10:46 am UTC (link)
18 dolla. No more.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Well Hot Damn - [info]prettyveela, 2004-07-13 10:08 pm UTC
Re: Well Hot Damn - [info]tea_and_toast, 2004-07-13 03:32 pm UTC
Re: Well Hot Damn - [info]prettyveela, 2004-07-13 10:08 pm UTC
Re: Well Hot Damn - [info]llama_treats, 2004-07-13 05:59 pm UTC
Re: Well Hot Damn - [info]prettyveela, 2004-07-15 10:49 pm UTC
On Romance - a cynic writes
[info]azazello
2004-07-13 02:25 pm UTC (link)
Anyone wish to join me in petitioning Rowling for the following title for book 6?

Harry Potter and the Wizarding World's Vow of Perpetual Celibacy

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: On Romance - a cynic writes - [info]prettypinkkitty, 2004-07-13 02:51 pm UTC
Re: On Romance - a cynic writes - [info]azazello, 2004-07-13 03:34 pm UTC
Re: On Romance - a cynic writes - [info]marks, 2004-07-13 04:42 pm UTC
Re: On Romance - a cynic writes - [info]azazello, 2004-07-13 07:52 pm UTC
Re: On Romance - a cynic writes - [info]marks, 2004-07-13 07:58 pm UTC
Re: On Romance - a cynic writes - [info]hermiones_hymen, 2004-07-14 03:45 am UTC
Re: On Romance - a cynic writes - [info]marks, 2004-07-14 02:42 pm UTC
Re: On Romance - a cynic writes - [info]mariagoner, 2004-07-14 11:06 am UTC
Re: On Romance - a cynic writes - [info]delfeus, 2004-07-14 05:08 pm UTC


 
   
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