Home
    - Create Journal
    - Update
    - Download

LiveJournal
    - News
    - Paid Accounts
    - Contributors

Customize
    - Customize Journal
    - Create Style
    - Edit Style

Find Users
    - Random!
    - By Region
    - By Interest
    - Search

Edit ...
    - Personal Info &
      Settings
    - Your Friends
    - Old Entries
    - Your Pictures
    - Your Password

Need Help?
    - Lost Password?
    - Freq. Asked
      Questions
    - Support Area

Kym (kymscrazy) wrote in fandom_wank,
@ 2004-07-29 02:47:00

My first wank! *pets it* And it's a Marysue wank.
Over at The Mary Sue Community, everyone was having fun with the newest Narnia Stu.

Then Farla comments with On the plus side, unlike most of the original creators, CS Lewis deserves a gay stu rewriting his book. Stupid uptight bigot.

She goes on to say how CS Lewis was racist and sexist, and how all the girls in his books were evil and not allowed to 'act like girls'.

Many people comment, and the wank has stalled for the moment, but only because it's past Farla's bedtime.

(Post a new comment)

lovelypoet
2004-07-29 12:47 pm UTC (link)

While Farla started on a stupid note, I think this one was my favorite:

I won't deny that the politics of the time can shape an author's intent and attitude, but I seriously doubt the author's original intent of the novels was to warp little children's minds into converting to the One True Faith and hating all black people. Get some perspective.

If he was really serious about that kind of thing, he wouldn't have invested his efforts into concocting an entire world of fantasy characters to tell a very complex tale with many layers. Don't ever assume you can know an author's true intent unless you've personally spoken with them about it.

It's called 'allegory'. Read up on *that* sometime.
So wait, it's an allegory, but not a Christian allegory?

Whoops. Apparently all that Sons of Adam and Daughters of Eve stuff didn't mean what I thought it meant and "the Last Battle" didn't talk about false prophets or what you have to believe to get into heaven or anything, oh and no naming of the animals or eating from a forbidden tree in "The Magicians Nephew" either. Nope, none of that is actually there.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	alryssa 2004-07-29 12:49 pm UTC (link)
	I never said it wasn't. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-29 02:02 pm UTC

alryssa, 2004-07-31 11:52 am UTC

valarltd
2004-07-29 05:06 pm UTC (link)

It's not about hating black people.
It's about the treacherous, proud ways of the Saracen and how God will get them for that.

Last I checked, Arabs weren't black. As far as I recall there are no blacks in Narnia at all.

As for Susan, It's not about growing up and acting like a girl.
It's about becoming an empty-headed bimbo, conforming and losing your belief. Her faith is in nylons and make-up, and she has lost her stories.

Polly grew up without losing her stories. She never stopped believing. Susan was already falling away by Prince Caspian where she is the last to see Aslan because she's being stubborn and refusing to believe.

She has rushed ahead to the silliest tie of her life and is attempting to stay there as long as possible. She's empty-headed, vain and useless. If that's definitively "acting like a girl" I must question the poster's definition of women. Not to say i don't know many who went through that phase at that age, where suddenly all they could do was giggle and act stupid around boys.

I just think some come through it without having to totally discard the Real for the Frill.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kannaophelia, 2004-07-29 05:33 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-29 05:40 pm UTC

teratologist, 2004-07-29 07:59 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-29 08:24 pm UTC

xeno4eyes, 2004-07-30 09:58 am UTC

geegaw, 2004-07-30 06:53 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-08-02 10:42 pm UTC

llorelei, 2004-07-31 05:50 am UTC

kinneas, 2004-08-01 04:45 am UTC

llorelei, 2004-08-01 05:07 am UTC

	quinctia 2004-07-29 07:41 pm UTC (link)
	"the Last Battle" didn't talk about false prophets or what you have to believe to get into heaven Well, it let the believers of Tash into heaven as long as they were sort of, not evil...which is better than most brands of Christianity, when you think about it. XD (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

skarrow, 2004-07-29 09:12 pm UTC

xeno4eyes, 2004-07-30 09:55 am UTC

	(Anonymous) 2004-07-29 03:21 pm UTC (link)
	Aww, Mary-Sue wank. Such fun. :~snuggles the wank~: (Reply to this)

	phosfate 2004-07-29 04:37 pm UTC (link)
	How, exactly, are girls supposed to act? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	kannaophelia 2004-07-29 05:35 pm UTC (link)
	Just like Susan. Any thoughts on anything not revolving around your lipstick and nylons, and you are exiled to the ranks of Evil Sexist Tomboys. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

puipui, 2004-07-30 11:21 am UTC

ladyofviolets, 2004-07-30 06:07 pm UTC

	rhi_silverflame 2004-07-29 04:48 pm UTC (link)
	This is my favorite comment: Yes, because anti-Muslim sentiment was SO prevalent in those days... Oh! Wait, that's right, it was COMMUNISM. Which, of course is almost spelled like muslim, so I can see how you'd get them mixed up. I always thought Aravis should've been a lesbian, though. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-07-29 05:57 pm UTC (link)
	Well, here's some Aravis/Lasaraleen (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1969896/1/) for you. -- Crazythorn @ LJ (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

rhi_silverflame, 2004-07-30 07:50 am UTC

visp, 2004-07-30 08:52 am UTC

alpheratz, 2004-07-30 08:29 pm UTC

	kannaophelia 2004-07-29 05:58 pm UTC (link)
	I'm sure I wrote Aravis/Lasraleen at some point, but I don't seem to have posted it anywhere. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	isntitironic 2004-07-29 06:41 pm UTC (link)
	I figured Susan got dumped because halfway through the last book, Mr. Lewis went, "uhoh, got eight kids here... 'eight friends of Narnia' just does not sound right. Better get rid of one." (Reply to this)(Thread)

	teratologist 2004-07-29 07:25 pm UTC (link)
	I always assumed that some girl with the temerity wear nylons dumped his sorry Oxford ass. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

narcissam, 2004-07-30 08:02 am UTC

teratologist
2004-07-29 07:28 pm UTC (link)

I'm torn. On the one hand, throwing around unsupported, culturally decontextualized accusations of bigotry is not exactly the sort of deep-thinking, concise, fact-base analysis that we all love the Internet for.

On the other hand, The Chronicles of Narnia is teh suxxors and I'm grateful to have found another person in the English-speaking world who recognizes that. I think we're up to four or five now.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-07-29 08:56 pm UTC (link)
	I actually liked them a lot when I was a kid and the allegory didn't hit me quite so hard in the face. Never liked the Last Battle though, just felt unsatisfying...hollow. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

alpheratz, 2004-07-29 09:00 pm UTC

beccastareyes, 2004-07-29 09:01 pm UTC

teratologist, 2004-07-30 06:23 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-30 08:14 pm UTC

teratologist, 2004-07-31 06:58 pm UTC

	aloysius 2004-07-29 10:21 pm UTC (link)
	Have you counted in Philip Pullman? He appears fairly intelligent, too. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

teratologist, 2004-07-30 06:21 am UTC

iczer6, 2004-07-30 08:07 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-30 09:32 am UTC

teratologist, 2004-07-30 03:16 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-30 04:03 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-31 10:20 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-08-06 07:23 am UTC

	pooka 2004-07-30 09:31 am UTC (link)
	Count me in. I didn't hate it, but after hearing how fabulous it was from friends, reading it for myself was a real letdown. It reminded me of TV shows I watched as a kid--the kind that looked all sparkly and fun at first glance but then quickly switched over to preachy, lesson-teaching mode. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	big_bad_wolf 2004-07-29 07:35 pm UTC (link)
	Hmmm. I was quite confused, because someone mention "Narnia child rape Gary-Stu fic" and I went - "Hey, I wrote one of those ... don't recall putting it on the internet ..." And then I got caught up in the stupid. God, how DARE C.S. Lewis have an opinion which was fairly typical of the time? BAD C.S. LEWIS! YOU DON'T GET TO ASCEND TO THE NARNIA PARADISE! (Reply to this)(Thread)

beccastareyes, 2004-07-29 08:58 pm UTC

beccastareyes, 2004-07-29 08:58 pm UTC

big_bad_wolf, 2004-07-29 10:44 pm UTC

	(Anonymous) 2004-07-29 08:57 pm UTC (link)
	Gee. Here I was thinking it was showing the ability to fully analyse a situation and promote discussion was a good thing. Obviously he would have been better off falling back on blanket, unsupported, idiot statements involving ignoring most of the issues like "Lewis was a bigot". Hee hee! (Reply to this)

	(Anonymous) 2004-07-29 10:16 pm UTC (link)
	We seem to have gotten her to stfu for the time being. Ah, the joys of rational, believable argument :) -kinneas (Reply to this)

	gaisce 2004-07-29 10:45 pm UTC (link)
	"Whether or not Christianity had human sacrifice (it didn't, for the record...)" Christ on a cracker, hasn't she heard of the Eucharist? (Reply to this)(Thread)

alryssa, 2004-07-30 08:01 am UTC

(no subject) - allen, 2004-07-30 10:21 am UTC

That's cannibalism that is! -

romanesque, 2004-07-30 08:04 am UTC

Re: That's cannibalism that is! -

rhi_silverflame, 2004-07-30 05:25 pm UTC

Re: That's cannibalism that is! -

littlest_lurker, 2004-07-31 01:07 am UTC

puipui, 2004-07-30 11:28 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-31 06:53 am UTC

	visp 2004-07-30 08:55 am UTC (link)
	Yes, showing the one silly girl who does nothing but care about makeup and boys to be not as good as the brave one who fights is OMGSexist!!!11one! (Reply to this)

	ningengirai 2004-07-30 09:04 am UTC (link)
	annoyed For once in my life I'd like one of my favourite childhood books/comics/movies/plushies/pets not be turned into a warped analogy for today's sexism/racism/what-have-you. It's a book. That OP should take a chill pill or ten and relax. Y'know, we eat chocolate. Chocolate's 'black'. OMIGOD RACISM. (Reply to this)(Thread)

xeno4eyes, 2004-07-30 10:01 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-30 05:10 pm UTC

dawnswalker, 2004-07-31 06:04 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-07-30 08:22 pm UTC

jaseroque
2004-07-30 06:37 pm UTC (link)

I will admit to being quite upset when I was told (at about age eleven) that the Narnia Chronicles were a big analogy for religion. It did quite hurt to have an author and a story I had trusted and loved suddenly turn out to be trying to convert me to something I already knew I didn't believe in.

But honestly, while his girls were.. well, treated differently to the boys, I'd actually say he probably liked the girls better -- or more precisely, he liked Lucy better. Lucy is the one who is always right, always sympathized with in the narrative, always likeable and easy to get along with. Of course, the book was written for his god-daughter Lucy, but through her portrayal, I could hardly say he's acting sexist. I mean, she's the one the narrative is set up for us to like, right from the first book (counting the first book as The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe anyway.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

rhi_silverflame, 2004-07-31 07:17 pm UTC

jaseroque, 2004-07-31 07:33 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-08-02 10:48 pm UTC

jaseroque, 2004-08-03 10:26 am UTC

	llorelei 2004-07-31 06:05 am UTC (link)
	I think I need a "stop being on my side, you're making my side look stupid" icon. I'll hold an eternal grudge against these books. They make me uncomfortable and all around peeved. (Reply to this)

	(Anonymous) 2004-08-06 07:28 am UTC (link)
	I especially liked the part where she said (something along the lines of) "Well, Tolkien and Lewis were friends but Tolkien wrote non-racist fantasy without an evil, Arab-based race" Should we remind her about the Haradrim? They always seemed much like the Calormens to me. (Reply to this)

Privacy Policy - COPPA
Legal Disclaimer - Site Map