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Rod of Squirrel Nim ([info]eyebrowofdoom) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2003-05-12 03:37:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
More Legolas/Gimli wank!
This is from the same thread as the previously posted wank, so perhaps am reaching here, but topically it was a whole new kettle of wank.

It's just... wankalicious. How much do I love book canon righteous furies? *stabs self*


From "Laila" [retrospective spelling edit -- *raps self on knuckles*]: I seriously think that the people making the movies wanted to appeal to teenage girls with plausible slash-pairings, knowing exactly what a big and active fangroup it is. There's no other plausible reasons for some of the stuff they did in Two Towers - they are pushing Legolas/Aragorn in you face and on the way, totally screwing up the Legolas character. Which I think is a rather unforgivable desecration of the books, no matter how much I like slash, because it violates the basis of the characters and the relationship between them. To each slashfan her poison, but Tolkien did not write the characters like that. I didn't mind Legolas being blond and pretty, as I never had a really clear idea of what he looked like, it not being described by Tolkien. But I think the book gives a good description of him as a person. I know people say one should see it as a movie fanfic, but they had this great opportunity to make a really proper movie version, they blew it, and thus made it impossible for anyone else who would respect Tolkiens work to do it again.
I think the message of tolerance and willingness to accept the past and go on, that is implicit in the development of L/G friendship in the book, is a message that is particularly valuably today, and it says so much about those people that they choose to overlook it and focus on who the fans would like to imagine having sex instead.


For those who are members, this post is here.


I would love to meet this woman, whip out a copy of the book, whip down my pants and *show* her desecration...


(Post a new comment)


[info]msmanna
2003-05-12 12:41 am UTC (link)
Well, *I* think that 'the people making the movies' [1] are blatantly pushing Legolas/Aragorn slash [2] in our faces in a feeble, PR-devil driven attempt to distract weak-willed fans from the one Holy Truth that is Domlijah. What, they think if they give Aragorn and Legolas a whole ten lines together that the pulsating sun of their passion with blind us? And what about making sure there were no more good scenes by splitting Frodo and OtherHobbit up and sending Frodo off to Mordor? [3] Pah!

It will never work! ThereHobbitLoveIsSoPure!

{dons shiny hat}

{goes off to light a candle}

[1] I heard a rumour there's some guy called Peter involved. But that's probably just PR.

[2] Although I'm more convinced by Aragorn/horse. At least he Frenched the horse.

[3] Someone tried to tell me that's in the book. Yeah, like anyone is going to wade through *that* to find out.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]iczer6
2003-05-12 01:02 am UTC (link)
>>but they had this great opportunity to make a really proper movie version, they blew it, and thus made it impossible for anyone else who would respect Tolkiens work to do it again.>>

Of course since the movies don't follow the books word for fucking word they are obviously trying to wreck the [canon!] pairing of LxG.

I mean how DARE those fangirls not like LxG! Hot blonde guy with short hairy guy? What's not to love!


Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]cimorene111
2003-05-12 03:52 pm UTC (link)
well, you can have your opinions about what YOU like, but surely you can't argue that she is wrong? i mean, she only wants legolas and gimli to have a white wedding in lorien because, y'know, tolkien obviously INTENDED it that way! you wouldn't want to desecrate tolkien by making legolas an adulterer. (adulterist?)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]dana
2003-05-14 03:53 pm UTC (link)
As long as they got married before they consumated the relationship, otherwise that would go against Tolkien canon and be a desecration of the classic.

*serious face*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re:
[info]cimorene111
2003-05-14 10:13 pm UTC (link)
of course.

tolkien was hanging out with c.s. lewis because he was a big ol' christian guy himself and not for any, er, OTHER reasons.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sagralisse
2003-05-12 02:01 am UTC (link)
Mmmmm... hate to break it to her, but the story isn't modified to slash Aragorn and Legolas. Aragorn in the books is rather high-handed with his friends. In the movie he spends a bit more time connecting with both Legolas and Gimli.

Yes, Aragorn's character was was given an update for modern audiences. In the book his arc, that is the decisions and experiences that lead him to accept his destiny, are all pushed into a couple of paragraphs in Appendix A. By the time the hobbits reach Bree, any of his internal conflicts are resolved and the only thing about him that changes in the story is his outward appearance. In the movie, the conflicts from the Appendix are expanded and happen during the ring quest. That's pervasive. It colors everything from his relationship with Eowyn to the fact that Narsil wasn't reforged.

Sorry, it has nothing to do with sex. Please drive through.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]eyebrowofdoom
2003-05-12 08:13 am UTC (link)
I have replied questioning her, and she responds that movie makers know that teenage girls want to see manshagging and it is teenage girls who are the major demographic on this film. These being the only films I can remember that the father of everybody I know really wanted to see. And she writes that we should agree to disagree on the quality of the movies, thus avoiding supplying actual reasoning for her "desecration" of characters remarks.

I'm so encouraged, I could die.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]lulinda
2003-05-12 10:25 am UTC (link)
she responds that movie makers know that teenage girls want to see manshagging and it is teenage girls who are the major demographic on this film.

Tsk, tsk. She needs to chat with MsA to have this cleared up!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]sagralisse
2003-05-12 10:13 pm UTC (link)
*snorfle!*

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sagralisse
2003-05-12 10:16 pm UTC (link)
It's cute that "reading other people's minds" has replaced the ad hominem attack as the weapon of choice amongst online debaters.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]hugsnkisses
2003-05-12 09:19 pm UTC (link)
Sorry, it has nothing to do with sex.

*wibbles*

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]hollenlili
2003-05-12 02:27 am UTC (link)
I would love to meet this woman, whip out a copy of the book, whip down my pants and *show* her desecration...

Ahahaha... I'd like that too.

Here, have an icon.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]eyebrowofdoom
2003-05-12 08:05 am UTC (link)
Cool! *thhppp*

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]mirabellawotr
2003-05-12 02:39 am UTC (link)
Oh, for fuck's sake, do not even get me started on these idiots.

News flash, Laida: Peter Jackson is a huge fucking fan of the books. You are not a bigger fan than he is because you sit on your ass in front of a computer doing the internet fangirl thing. Christopher Lee, who if you recall worked on the movie, is not only a huge fucking fan of the books but has actually met Tolkien. You? Are a shallow twat with no idea what you are fucking talking about, so shut. the. fuck. UP and leave the movies to people who, you know, actually like them.

[/wankery]

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sagralisse
2003-05-12 03:02 am UTC (link)
Don't forget Phillipa Boynes, who had a habit of reading the books every year before Pete and Fran asked her to help work on the screen play. No doubt she's the one responsible for the vast number of lines taken almost directly from the books.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]mirabellawotr
2003-05-12 03:09 am UTC (link)
Oh, yes, but of course none of that matters, because she's not a Real Fan TM either. The only Real Fans TM are 19-year-old fangirls who have not even been alive as long as some of us *coughChristopherLee,PeterJackson,PhilippaBoyens,andMEcough* have been reading these books.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]iczer6
2003-05-12 07:06 am UTC (link)

>>News flash, Laida: Peter Jackson is a huge fucking fan of the books. You are not a bigger fan than he is because you sit on your ass in front of a computer doing the internet fangirl thing.>>

How CAN he be a true fan!? He changed the holy scripture of Tolkien! He didn't follow the books to the letter. [Despite the fact that this would be nearly impossible, very expensive and make the movies about six hours long.]


Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]eyebrowofdoom
2003-05-12 08:24 am UTC (link)
I really think anyone who can call the PJ movies a desecration does not have the capacity to like a film adaptation of lotr. Their suffering is self inflicted. If only they'd shut up about it, I could *enjoy* their entirely deserved pain.

I am having an unsatisfactory exchange with this one onlist -- it seems now she's been questioned, she would just like to "agree to disagree" rather than formulate and present reasoning. Love it. *stab*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re:
[info]mirabellawotr
2003-05-12 09:46 am UTC (link)
I really think anyone who can call the PJ movies a desecration does not have the capacity to like a film adaptation of lotr.

I think you're right about this, and further, I think that most of them don't have any real concept of different media having different requirements. As much as I love the books, if they were shot scene for scene and word for word they would have been (a) boring, and (b) goofy. *coughBBCradioproductioncough*

However, I think that more than anything what they're doing is enjoying being righteously indignant and looking down their noses at things, and the actual quality of the movies has nothing whatsoever to do with the things they bitch about. Maybe they need tinfoil accessories too.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Preach on brother/sister
[info]iczer6
2003-05-12 07:20 pm UTC (link)
>>However, I think that more than anything what they're doing is enjoying being righteously indignant and looking down their noses at things, and the actual quality of the movies has nothing whatsoever to do with the things they bitch about. Maybe they need tinfoil accessories too.>>

AMEN.

I agree. It really doesn't have anything with the quality of the movies, it has to do with giving something to rub in other peoples faces.

'Nah, nah I read the books 15 time I'm better than yoooou!'

Of course things like how movies and books differ, time constriants, money, and the fact that if PJ could've used the book for a screenplay he would've. Not to mention that the majority of the people working on the movie held the books in very high reguard means absolutely nothing to the 19 old fangirl who thinks she's a Tolkein expert.


Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]lasultrix
2003-05-15 12:32 am UTC (link)
I really think anyone who can call the PJ movies a desecration does not have the capacity to like a film adaptation of lotr.

Hmm... I'd agree with you if FotR was the only one on the table, but TTT did have a lot of very questionable stuff in. And I can see why a Gimli fan, in particular, would be very disappointed in it. Gimli's ridiculed throughout it, and the cheap Pratchett rip-offs about dwarves are particularly low.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]eyebrowofdoom
2003-05-15 03:21 pm UTC (link)
Oh, believe me, there are many many things I have issues with in TTT. Like, I can't begin to understand what PJ was smoking in regard to the politics in Rohan, and Arwenblahblah, and the Ents are defamed, and yesyes, why is Gimli turned into an impotent buffoon -- when he's a smokin' axe-wielding god of eros, baby? But I still enjoy the thing. I still leave the cinema with my heart all aflutter and a big grin on my face. I can't believe someone can find *nothing* to like in TTT, unless they've got something serious up their arse, you know? :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]iczer6
2003-05-15 08:35 pm UTC (link)
>>why is Gimli turned into an impotent buffoon -- when he's a smokin' axe-wielding god of eros, baby?>>

I didn't think Gimli was THAT bad. Yeah there were a few 'dwarf' jokes, but hell TTT can be pretty damn depressing and they needed someway to lighten the mood.

But Gimli kicked ass and took names when it counted.


Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]kannaophelia
2003-05-13 02:16 am UTC (link)
Peter Jackson is a huge fucking fan of the books.

You know, I don't think that should even come into a discussion of whether the movies are any good. I mean, most of those responsible for atrocities in fandom, from erotic Mary Sues upwards, are huge fucking fans of whatever fandom they're playing in. Being a fan doesn't mean you have some direct-from-God ability regarding whatever it is you're a fan of. ~shrug~

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re:
[info]mirabellawotr
2003-05-13 02:28 am UTC (link)
Okay with me - I'll stop making that argument the very day that the aforementioned idiots stop strongly implying, if not saying outright, that the reason the movies are such a "desecration" is that Peter Jackson knows jack shit about canon and wouldn't care at all about it even if he did, and that they themselves are far better people than he is because they're pompous enough to believe that he should have tailored the movie to EXACTLY their desires and priorities.

Oh, and they also need to stop strongly implying, if not saying outright, that they're Tolkien fans and he's not. Because that's a load of horseshit, frankly.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]eyebrowofdoom
2003-05-15 03:37 pm UTC (link)
Precisely what is being wanked here is this poster's appeal to the faux economy of "more fan than thou". Hence the very tiresome bidding war on how young one was when first reading the books. So I think the assertion that PJ's fan credentials stack up is quite to the point.

What shits me here is not that people have issues with TTT, because I've got plenty myself, but that ridiculous adverse intentions are ascribed to the film-makers by self-styled victim fans.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]phosfate
2003-05-12 04:38 pm UTC (link)
I seriously think that the people making the movies wanted to appeal to teenage girls with plausible slash-pairings, knowing exactly what a big and active fangroup it is.

I know a little bunny who's confusing Peter Jackson with a shonen-ai anime director.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]eyebrowofdoom
2003-05-15 04:03 pm UTC (link)
There are 1500 of us on tolkien_slash! I bet he's quaking in his slender, androgynous, pastel-inked animated boots -- er.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]oxydosic
2003-05-12 09:47 pm UTC (link)
I seriously think that the people making the movies wanted to appeal to teenage girls with plausible slash-pairings, knowing exactly what a big and active fangroup it is.

*Tilts head, squints eyes, stands on head*

Nope, still don't get it. I really can't picture the vast majority of teenage girls going to see ANY movie so they can picture two of the male characters getting it on. To ogle the cute guys, maybe. Or maybe i'm just old and out of touch with the female teen dynamic.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]imnsho
2003-05-13 03:30 am UTC (link)
Have to agree with you there.

Most teenage girls I know spend their time thinking how cool and cute the actors are. If they envision them having sex with anyone it's with someone just like them. Just look at the number of little Mary Sue fics that are written about how one of the "guys" falls for an annoying teenage Mary Sue.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Reply from suspended user)

[info]dana
2003-05-14 04:01 pm UTC (link)
I really can't picture the vast majority of teenage girls going to see ANY movie so they can picture two of the male characters getting it on.

Interestingly enough, this arguement would hold up if we were talking about Japanese or Korean teengirls, but not so much in Western society, which I believe is the large majority of teen consumers.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]lasultrix
2003-05-15 12:24 am UTC (link)
Oh, man. These wanks make me want to join the LOTR fandom just so I can laugh at it.

How can anyone call the films slash-friendly? They took out Glorfindel, for crying out loud! And we all saw the blatant Glorfindel slash in the books. I should know. I read the books when I was four months old, after all.

(Reply to this)


 
   
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