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	Eh? iczer6 2003-05-19 04:13 am UTC (link)
	The hell? Really was there a point in all that? I mean this person seems to go off on many, many tangents that have nothing to do with the topic at hand? What does RP fic have to do with shoplifting, or rapefic, and how the hell does 'Heavenly Creatures' fit in to ANY of this? My head hurts.... Icz (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Eh? misswindy 2003-05-19 04:35 am UTC (link)

What does RP fic have to do with shoplifting, or rapefic, "The hell?!" was my initial response too, but as I read it over and tried to see WTF she was talking about, I *think* what she was saying was that Mary Sues, RPS, rapefic and shoplifting are all the ways that people who suffer from, um, "fangirl personality disorder" act out. Like if you've discovered Buffy or some other fandom, you write rapefic, Mary Sues and RPS. If you are one of the unfortunates who HASN'T discovered fandom and yet suffer from "Fangirl Personality Disorder", you shoplift! I'm sure it made sense in her poor addled brain. I'm going to add this response to my actual post, because honestly, that's a bizarre fucking wank if I ever saw one. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Eh? iczer6 2003-05-19 04:44 am UTC (link)

>>My concern, though, is with fanfiction, because over the past few days, I've been thinking about it, about rapefic, about RP fic, and I've come to the conclusion that what we're dealing with isn't fanfiction, and it needs to recognized as different. We need to reclassify this stuff.<< Okay, what? It isn't fanfiction? People who write rapefic either want to be raped or want the characters in their fic to be raped? I'm totally confused. I mean it seems that a good point does surface but the meaning is lost in a sea of incoherence. I'm gonna stay far away from this journal... The Anti-Yaoi group and Domlijah fans are scary enough. Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Eh? misswindy 2003-05-19 04:49 am UTC (link)

She's basically attempting to distinguish between "real writers" and people who write fiction as "fangirls". Apparently, any fiction which has a Mary Sue, includes rape or is about a person who actually existed is "therapy fic", the product of a diseased and needy mind, and not legitimate fiction. I really hope no one has ever told that to J.D. Salinger, Tennessee Williams, and the screenwriter for Shakespeare In Love. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Eh? iczer6 2003-05-19 04:58 am UTC (link)

>>Apparently, any fiction which has a Mary Sue, includes rape or is about a person who actually existed is "therapy fic", the product of a diseased and needy mind, and not legitimate fiction.>> So venting one's feelings in writing is bad... So I guess all those people who wrote or are writing stories to help them come to terms with tragedies in their life should stop because it's not real fiction. Good to know. I knew that my high school counselor was right about repressing all my negative feelings into a bitter little ball and cramming it deep down inside me. Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Eh? wizzard 2003-05-19 05:01 am UTC (link)
	Wow. That is one wanky post. I think she's trying to say that these "poodles" have let their fantasy life take over reality...or something...and that's why she brings up Heavenly Creatures. I have to think that even people who dislike RPF and Mary Sues consider this girl an idiot. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Eh? phosfate 2003-05-19 11:03 pm UTC (link)
	And you'd be right. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Eh? rhi_silverflame 2003-05-20 04:55 am UTC (link)

What does RP fic have to do with shoplifting, or rapefic, and how the hell does 'Heavenly Creatures' fit in to ANY of this? Short version (and forgive me if someone else has already clarified this part and I missed it): As "Heavenly Creatures" is a dramatization of a true story, Juliet Hulme is now known as murder mystery novelist Anne Perry. So, something about the fine line between fantasy and reality, and . . . Wait, I'm not gonna even try and rationalize this. :P (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Eh? iczer6 2003-05-20 05:00 am UTC (link)

>>Short version (and forgive me if someone else has already clarified this part and I missed it): As "Heavenly Creatures" is a dramatization of a true story, Juliet Hulme is now known as murder mystery novelist Anne Perry.>> I know that Heavenly Creatures is about two girls who become so disassociated with reality that they end up committing a brutal murder, but I still think it's a stretch to put that on the same level as someone who pitched a hissy fit over criticism of their fic. Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)

	soy_latte 2003-05-19 05:15 am UTC (link)
	I understand the whole (fan)fiction as therapy angle, but I fail to see how it would only apply rapefic, RPF, and Mary Sues... all three of which by definition will have bad grammer and speelin? Uh, sure. (Reply to this)

loeb_n_leopold 2003-05-19 05:19 am UTC (link)

"I've no doubt there are girls out there acting like fangirls, but not having discovered Buffy or whatever, they garner attention and sympathy from misbehavior and shoplifting." You know, we laugh, but it's truer than you'd think. Popslash saved me from a life of crime. If only Billy the Kid had had Lotrips to turn to, maybe he wouldn't have turned into a sociopathic killer. Think of the children! (Reply to this)(Thread)

	eyebrowofdoom 2003-05-19 08:07 am UTC (link)
	... something... about terrorists and... jesus... and... *koff koff* *hack* (Reply to this)(Parent)

	renjenri 2003-05-19 05:42 am UTC (link)
	Too. Many. Words. *brain eplodes* (Reply to this)(Thread)

(Deleted post)

	renjenri 2003-05-19 05:51 am UTC (link)
	Dammit, I always forget the circles and the chanting. Stupid me. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	soy_latte 2003-05-19 05:50 am UTC (link)
	That was my first reaction too. My brain went boom, but once I smeared a little on the monitor, turned in a circle 5 times while chanting "thou shalt not write RPF" and then squinted a little, it made perfect sense. (Reply to this)(Parent)

morganya 2003-05-19 05:43 am UTC (link)

Written by fangirls--or poodles, if you will---for fangirls----these are written for the writer, not for the character, not for the story, not for the exorcism of ideas from a feverish brain. Writing is not the interest. The writer writes this type of thing because they cannot accomplish what they want any other way. I can only boggle. Self-importance! Gross generalization! Logic a barge could pass through! Boggle. Boggle. And may I add, arf arf. (Reply to this)

	moonjaguar 2003-05-19 06:10 am UTC (link)
	Ow. I have a migraine and I read Gin Martini's post. Bad Move. (what's with the nutty people with the Ginny-based user names?) (Reply to this)

	sorchar 2003-05-19 06:37 am UTC (link)
	What the hell does "Heavenly Creatures" have to do with RPS, unless someone's actually writing HC fic about Pauline and Juliet? Armchair psychologists who make pontificating statements about a whole lot of people they don't know - a whole lot of individuals - achieve that balance of annoying and amusing previously only found on The Man Show. (Reply to this)(Thread)

iczer6 2003-05-19 07:02 am UTC (link)

>>Armchair psychologists who make pontificating statements about a whole lot of people they don't know - a whole lot of individuals - achieve that balance of annoying and amusing previously only found on The Man Show.>> I disagree. At least the Man Show managed to be entertaining, and you knew from the get go it was complete and utter bullshit. However this person seems to think making references to movies with psychological themes somehow helps whatever point she was trying to make. Icz (Reply to this)(Parent)

mpoetess 2003-05-19 09:59 am UTC (link)

I think it takes digging through about 3 separate older posts to come up with the context for this (not that it makes this post *that* much clearer). As far as I could tell, the sort of RP fic she's talking about is author-self-insert, and the rapefics being violent-rape (sometimes of RP characters) -as-sexy, with that as the major kink. Being sure of that isn't easy though, because she does seem to generalize pretty heavily. As far as I can tell: She left some [in her opinion] constructive criticism as reviews on various ff.net stories that were heavily netspoken, un-spellchecked, and some of which contained Justin+MarySue4eva, or Ewan+MarySueafterwemurderhiswife4eva. Some of the authors whined, said she was a meanie, stated that RP fic must be ok on ff.net because they got lots of positive reviews (when she pointed out that it was specifically against the posting rules there) and told her loudly and rudely to fuck off. She reported them to ff.net for the openly RP fic. They got louder and ruder and in turn reported her non-explicit story as being NC-17. It was apparently yanked with no discussion from ff.net staff; when she complained about this in an LJ post, aforementioned "poodles" swarmed her lj with anonymous comments calling her a bitch, telling her to back off or she'd see what kind of trouble they could cause, etc. The strange structure of this post is... slightly explained by the fact that it refers obliquely to previous LJ posts, but yeah, the Anne Bishop thing is kind of a flying leap, from "kids these days can't spell and don't think they should have to, and generally act like...er...a majority of teenagers" to "therefore they're just like two girls who developed a deep paranoid fantasy world and conspired to commit violent matricide." Personally, I just wish she'd stop to remember that there's no "e" in ridiculous, before she posts her more-or-less reasonable comments about spellcheck being one's friend, and not posting stories in a public place if one doesn't want criticism. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	mpoetess 2003-05-19 10:02 am UTC (link)
	[er. Anne Perry.] (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sagralisse 2003-05-19 06:57 pm UTC (link)
	Thanks mpoetess. It doesn't seem that wanky if her entire exposure to RPS has been popslash Mary Sues. Maybe someone should send her some lotrips... wait, not the wedding fic though. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mpoetess 2003-05-19 07:02 pm UTC (link)
	No, no, not the comfy chair wedding fic! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sagralisse 2003-05-19 07:06 pm UTC (link)
	The wedding fic... the only fic in the world that will make you BEG ON YOUR KNEES for Mary Sue to show up with a semi-automatic rifle. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	tinfoil_portia 2003-05-19 08:15 pm UTC (link)
	What is this new evil? I beg thee, link me to this fic-spawn that i might laugh at its evilitude:-o (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sagralisse 2003-05-19 09:48 pm UTC (link)
	Grrr... I can't. It's at the Gutter. Shouldn't be that hard to find. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	soleta 2003-05-20 04:49 am UTC (link)
	I missed that. I don't know whether I should be thankful or not. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	wizzard 2003-05-19 08:50 pm UTC (link)
	Did someone mention the comfy chair? Oh, and I agree with Portia. Links to torture us all must be provided! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	phosfate 2003-05-19 11:07 pm UTC (link)
	And after the wedding fic...the Mpreg! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sagralisse 2003-05-19 11:14 pm UTC (link)
	And by then I'm hoping Mary Sue will reenact the spaghetti dinner scene from Alien. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	starkeymonster 2003-05-20 07:48 pm UTC (link)
	*cowers* Not the Mpreg. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	morganya 2003-05-19 08:41 pm UTC (link)
	If I remember right, she's also the lady on the GAFF messageboard who offered to write porn about anyone who sent her their personal information and then when someone (Lecithin?) volunteered, backed out, to the tune of, "Well, I won't write it, because I don't know that you are who you say you are." It's not nice to tempt people with porn like that. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	snacky 2003-05-19 09:57 pm UTC (link)
	Wait. Poodles? Anne Perry? RPS? The hell? I feel like I came into a movie ten minutes late and missed the important connection. (Reply to this)

nevadafighter 2003-05-21 07:28 am UTC (link)

The stuff about the poodles is way funny and the rest of it has logic you can drive a Buick through, but I like the point about canon characters being forced OOC just to satisfy the therapeutic or fanciful aims of the writer. An AU *insert canon name here* isn't really *name*. It becomes a different character who's just a doppelganger. I'm lapsing into seriousness. Argh. *grabs tinfoil hat* (Reply to this)