Guns, Xanderzone and Wank...why am I not surprised?
Well, it's been a while, but the Xanderzone returns strong with a wank on the Federal Assault Weapon Ban Repeal.

Four straight yahoogroups pages of wank. Scary scary wank.

Interesting views of History, Nazis, Fascists, the old "Guns don't kill people..." and some other fun stuff is in here. The whole things http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/XanderZone/messagesearch/67658?query=federal%20assault%20weapon (here) but you'd have to be a member to read it.


OT post, then ListDaddy response, then it gets scary.
Does anyone else thing that letting this ban go the way of the Dodo is a BAD
idea? I remember when it went into effect and a guy down the street from me was
hauled off to jail for having an automatic AK-47 and tons of full-mags. Just my
two cents.



Did the guy down the street shoot anyone with it prior to being hauled
away?

If not, the Ban is irrelevant.

Contrary to popular belief it doesn't matter how many bullets are in
your clip. If the person wielding the gun is halfway competent and he
wants you dead, it's only going to take *one*.
I found this scary...am I alone?



More Tenhawk response..
Hello fenix_burns,

Did the guy down the street shoot anyone with it prior to being
hauled
away?

If not, the Ban is irrelevant.

I must, respectfully, disagree. The ban is not made irrelevant just
because the guy Nick knew didn't shoot anyone.

It is insofar as the example he mentioned.

In the larger perspective, the ban is laughable. Much the same as
similar legislation here in Canada. Bad guys want guns, bad guys GET
guns. Any gun, any time.

Gun Control is an insult to law abiding citizens.

Contrary to popular belief it doesn't matter how many bullets are in
your clip. If the person wielding the gun is halfway competent and
he
wants you dead, it's only going to take *one*.

That's a pretty big "if", since, if the man is _not_ in any way
competent and wants an entire schoolyard dead, that would be possible
through the grace of an AK. A 9mm pistol would make such a scenario
rather more unfeasible.

An AK on full auto into a school yard will result is 99% of the ammo
*wasted*. A 9mm into a school yard will result in a much higher
bodycount except under very specific and relatively unlikely
situations.

There is a reason why 'rock and roll' isn't how a proffesional shoots
an assault weapon.

Assault weapons differ from pistols. In the hands of a raving loonie
they are infinitely more likely to cause indescriminate damage.

No, they are likelier to create *random* damage.

Personally, given the choice between a lottery where everything in the
background is potential target and an aimed pistol... I'll take the
lottery. You've got more chances of escaping unscathed if the guy
thinks he can spray and pray then if he aims his shots.

On the other hand, this has little to do with XZ or fanfic, so maybe I
should shut up now.

-shrug- It has a lot to do with some stories actually.




Hello therin_dracul,

Monday, September 13, 2004, 5:09:20 PM, you wrote:

I figure its only a matter of time before another crazy shoots up a
Mcdonald's and kills 21 people without having to reload.

LOL

It takes less then three seconds to change a clip... and that's
assuming that you're a klutz with no finger dexterity.

I've often wondered what the people who pass these laws are
thinking... That maybe the lunatic will take those three seconds in
the middle of his killing spree and think "Gee... maybe this ISN'T the
way to get *positive* attention?"



Hmm, I think he was refering to the Luby's massacre in Killeen Tx.
Funny you hear almost nothing about the woman who left her pistol in
her car because it was illegal to carry in the state at the time. She
might have saved a few lives.




Um...this one is either REALLY dumb or very scary...not sure which.
gun control dont work. and thats a simple fact. all gun control laws and banning
did was remove the ability of the legal civilian to protect themself from the
illegal criminal. -such as my self, the latter-

i will freely admit right here and right now, i am a criminal. i have a record,
with misdemenor and felony charges on it.

and you know what? it is easier and CHEAPER for me to get ANY rifle or pistol
and accessories thru the 'market' than you lawabiding citizens can thru legal
means.

guess what else.

i am FIRMLY against gun control laws simply because it gives a civvie NO CHANCE.
none at all.

i have a gun. you dont. i can do what i want, and you cant do jack.

i have a gun. so do you. i walk the other way.

any questions?




Just a bit of sense...
Well, to add my 2 cents...

Here, in Germany, the gunlaws are a lot strikter than in the USA and I
think it is the right way. I mean only a responsible person should be
allowed to own a gun or other similar damaging weapon. And yet
sometimes you can read about the police arresting some gun-nut that
had illegaly bought and collected weapons. Or a man going on an
amok-run with a Samurai katana, a man trying to push a woman in front
of a train or a fed up housewife opeing all the gaslines to blow her
house to kingdom come. If a human wants to do damage, he/she will find
the means to do so, but we shouldn't make their way of obtaining the
means easier than they should be.


But apparently not...
Problem is you've got a government deciding who is 'wothy' to own a
gun. Rich guy and his bodyguards, ok. Poor girl in a bad part of town,
sorry not worthy, you'll have to deal with that rapist or stalker
another way, good luck finging a cop when you need 'em.



And we're back to the scary...WITH HOLOCOST REFERENCES!! It wasn't truly wanky until we broke a law...

Well, to add my 2 cents...

To be cold.
ANY German quotes should be disregarded.

Or do you remember the years 1933-1945? You have a _object_ lesson
in recent history why gun control was _bad_... and the first guns
they took were the Jews.

Sorry, but European attudites to gun control _EXCEPT_ Switzerland
sicken me. Personally, I've always wondered WHY we stationed 2 full
corps or _more_ in your land, when it's _clear_ you want to be
slaves.

ANd you just proved my point. Humans are QUITE inventive when it
comes to killing. All you do by restricting guns or other weapons
to law abiding folk is to make it harder to protect themselves.


Pray tell... how is this a good thing?

ANd before you say the Goverement will protect you...
Ask the Rom how they felt with the protection of the Germans.
Or the Jews.
Or the Russians.
Or... _I_ can go on.
While _I_ agree that responlbity is required to posses a weapon,
that should be _training_, not "Oh, you're a cop, or rich rich."

YOUR view _leads_ to ditaroships. This is why I honeslty belive
we'll be back in no more than 30 years, or you all will be killing
each other. ANd if we have to come back a THIRD time in rage and
fury... do you really think we'll let you have your freedom _again_?

Here, in Germany, the gunlaws are a lot strikter than in the USA
and I
think it is the right way. I mean only a responsible person should
be
allowed to own a gun or other similar damaging weapon. And yet
sometimes you can read about the police arresting some gun-nut that
had illegaly bought and collected weapons. Or a man going on an
amok-run with a Samurai katana, a man trying to push a woman in
front
of a train or a fed up housewife opeing all the gaslines to blow
her
house to kingdom come. If a human wants to do damage, he/she will
find
the means to do so, but we shouldn't make their way of obtaining
the
means easier than they should be.

*snort*
263 Homicides in Tokyo one year.
147 of them? Knife. As in KICHTEN Knife.

Get a grip. The _only_ effective deterenet to crime is a _armed_
popluace.
Ask the people living south of you, say Switzerland? Nation with the
2nd (or 1st, can't recall right now) gun possesion in the word?
Take a _long_ look at their crime rate, in all cats, and compare it
to yours.

_very_ intresting data.

(and do _per_ captia, not total number)
Also, compare US crimes _per_ capita to your own.

Also intresting data.



And response:
Yo, man, I'm half German myself and while I do feel bad about what my people
once did to the Jews, don't go slinging things like this around, Cold or not.
Yeah, there are some out there who think they did the right thing, but trust me,
there are some out there who lived through it that can't get any sleep at night
after what they and their family did to the Jews and everyone else.



PARANOIA anyone?
Nick: I'm also part german, and have _FREINDS_ who are German... and
currenlty live there.
I'm not trying to be mean, hey, shit, man... look what we (The US)
did to the Indians, or the Japanese to (Insert X here...) (I'm part
Japanese, too...) My _point_ is... the only _safe_ popluace from
others... is a armed one. I'll even go as far as to state, given
the situational variables present in Germany, _at_ the time of the
election, it does _NOT_ suprise me what happened, and to be even
meaner, it'd have likey happened in _ANY_ nation... and Hilter was a
piker when it came to mass deaths.
See Stalin or Mao, why don't you?

_I_ was intentonally hitting the actions of the Germans, yes. I
_don't_ apoligze for it, though _to_ those who are offened by it,
I'm basically sorry that you are. To _not_ know history, is to
repeat it.
Never. Ever. Again. _EVER_.

Be Offended. But remember it. Otherwise, it'll happen _again_.

Or, is Serbia enough of a proof for that theory?

Nick, it's like this.

Die free, or live in chains.... and still die. Your choice.

_MY_ choice. Die free, head up, gun in hand, knowing I _did_ my
best to protect myself and others.

Yours might be different.
Your choice... but when they put the chains on you... don't look at
me.




I'm SOOO not pissing off anyone on this list for a while!
and pacifism only makes you a slave or worse, dead. some people aren't
willing to talk or hear reason. these are the people we are all worried
about, not the reasonable ones. reasonable people don't start wars or
fights. they look for solutions to their problems.

If given the opportunity to talk, I will talk. you shove a gun in my face
because you want my *THINGS* I guarendamnty you will not survive the
encounter. (just for the record, my score is a bit better... 2 wins, 4
draws, 1 loss and in none of those cases was I given a choice in the
matter.... and yes, violence is the last refuge of the damned. each of those
seven incidents I still remember their faces as it occurred. and yes, I do
view them as failures, and learn from them what I can, and acknowledge that
not every fight is avoidable, and sometimes we choose to put ourselves in
harms way to protect others.)




Because everyone who's ever shot a gun has perfect aim always...
"Guns, for all their faults, are basically the modern equivelent of a
sword or scalpel. While that doesn't guarantee you won't kill
unintended targets, the odds are heavily against it."

Id like to draw issue with this statement, as its rather blatantly false.

A considerable number of firearm deaths are unintentional or
accidental in nature.

If you want to talk somethign that doesnt do a whole lot of collateral
or incidental damage, your in need of something sharp and pointy.

Even then, theres the old hack about 'doubled edged swords'




Just...so...scared...
Umm... I'm not certain I understand what side you're coming down on
here, so I'm just going to comment anyway... ignore if you agree with
me... reply if not.


Actually not so laughable as all that.

For one, the Military, as well equipped as they are, are NOT well
equipped to hold a nation under tight control.

A well armed militia could easily force even a modern military force
to retreat, assuming they were willing ti stick it for the long haul.

There is a reason why the Military trains elite teams to work with
small arms.

A Tank can NOT hold a city against it's will. It can only destroy the
city.

A Bomber can NOT keep territory under control, it can only flatten it.

etc etc etc.

People who don't understand the military often think that the bigger
weapons make rifles and pistols obsolete. They don't.




Um...I must have missed that class...
An unpleasant fact of life that was forcibly demonstrated to
the USA by a friendly little group known as the Viet Cong...

Yes, like it or not, and I understand WHY many don't like it,
governments can't be trusted, and America's Founding Fathers
believed that like they believed the sun would rise every
morning. So, to their eyes, the only politician you can trust
is the politician who has your gun pointed at his head.

Bullets keep politicians and lawyers honest. ^_^ Not MY
philosophy, but the philosophy of Thomas Jefferson and
Samuel Addams.

Keep a gun over the fireplace, and be ready to kill off
every politician at a moment's notice and at the drop of
a hat... that was the motto of the Founding Fathers.