(Post a new comment)

	purplepopple 2003-05-22 06:31 am UTC (link)
	heh. Nothing beats the wanking on AOL's American Idol message boards... (Reply to this)

	moonjaguar 2003-05-22 06:53 am UTC (link)
	I watched a "Good Bad and Ugly" special of AI once. Sometimes my brother tunes it in (then again I'll watch Anna Nicole at times so I can't talk). Ya know, I wonder if there are any Nashville Star communities? (well I guess I could look). I'm just wondering if that one gets the same online gabble. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	faintly_macabre 2003-05-22 07:05 am UTC (link)
	There's not one on LJ. Don't know about blurty, ujournal, etc. etc., but there's not one on LJ. Hey, we could start one and then I bet the wank would come. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	nevadafighter 2003-05-22 07:10 am UTC (link)
	Oh, if you haven't seen the show and don't want to be spoiled, don't click on the links. Pfft, the giant red "RUUUUUBEN!!!" eliminated any chance of mystery, really. It's so much fun watching the "shame on you people for not using a simple cut tag!" argument sparking up again. warms hands over flames (Reply to this)(Thread)

	oxydosic 2003-05-22 03:38 pm UTC (link)
	By not clicking on the links, i meant, don't go to the boards ;p. But yeah, watching them bitch about LJ cuts always warms my heart. It's the wank that never goes out of style. Frankly i wouldn't even bother going to that board til the show was over if i didn't want to be spoiled. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	franklymydear 2003-05-22 04:41 pm UTC (link)
	Lolol. I love the one who wrote in huge capital letters yelling at the West Coasters who spoiled the results (those fiends should be banned from the community immediately for not using lj-cuts, naturally). It's called... not looking on potential spoiler boards before watching the show.... hmmm, bright ones :D (Reply to this)(Parent)

daijinryuu
2003-05-22 09:30 am UTC (link)

The Television Without Pity boards are great too, though nowhere near as swamped as anyone expected them to be, oddly. Still, some wonderful quotes:

Because the geeky, sweet, and wonderful people never win when up again the cool football players. You'd think I would have learned how popularity contests play out after 22 years on this Earth. You know what? It was about image after all.

But, my personal favorite by far:

I'm sad and angry and upset at tonight. A guy who was LAVISHED with undeserved praise beat out a far mor talented boy who worked his ass off EVERY SINGLE WEEK, and it's made me extremely upset. I'm trying to console myself by telling myself that Clay will still be around, but it isn't enough. CLAY WAS CHEATED OUT OF HIS MOMENT , and I don't care if Fox intentionally manipulated the votes or not- they gave Ruben an unfair advantage with all the pimping.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

oxydosic
2003-05-22 03:42 pm UTC (link)

Because the geeky, sweet, and wonderful people never win when up again the cool football players. You'd think I would have learned how popularity contests play out after 22 years on this Earth. You know what? It was about image after all.

*sporfle*

All about image..that kills me. And on the LJ board they'd say that there was no chance Rueben could win because he was fat. I think this person has slight issues that stem from being a geek treated badly by jocks in high school.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kristenk2 2003-05-22 07:04 pm UTC (link)
	Word. I'm still laughing at the idea Ruben was considered a "cool football player". He was? By whom? Ruben and Clay both seemed like social outcasts to me, but for different reasons. Neither one came across as "cool and popular". (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	jfpbookworm 2003-05-22 08:33 pm UTC (link)
	I don't know who considers him cool either, but Ruben was in fact a football player. See the Q&A here. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kristenk2 2003-05-22 11:55 pm UTC (link)
	I stand corrected. :) Football player, yes; cool, no. Not in the high school mentality sense of "coolness", that is. (Reply to this)(Parent)

misswindy
2003-05-22 08:12 pm UTC (link)

A guy who was LAVISHED with undeserved praise beat out a far mor talented boy who worked his ass off EVERY SINGLE WEEK, and it's made me extremely upset. I'm trying to console myself by telling myself that Clay will still be around, but it isn't enough. CLAY WAS CHEATED OUT OF HIS MOMENT , and I don't care if Fox intentionally manipulated the votes or not- they gave Ruben an unfair advantage with all the pimping.

See, this isn't fan wanking. This is supportable fact. The PR machine of the show really HAS been shoving Ruben Studdard down the public's throat as the "front runner" (despite having been in the bottom few a couple of times) since the semi-finals.

It's also fact that the strongest criticism he ever got was "You ought to think about mixing it [your style] up a little next week" no matter how bad he sang (and it was off-key and undynamic much of the time), whereas Clay, whose voice, regardless of what you think of his performance style and/or appearance, was technically superior in every way, got called horrible, embarrassing, and ugly on a near weekly basis no matter how flawless his performance. So the person you quoted was in no way exaggerating or dramatizing. That IS how it went down.

I mean, Simon Cowell was quoted by Newsweek last week as saying that he deliberately sabotaged Kimberley Locke in her last week because he "want[ed] Ruben in the finale." (He apparently wasn't worried that Clay would be there either way on merit.)

As an AI addict since last season, part of the fun for me and almost all the viewers is the idea that WE have a say in the way the show turns out, and the way these kids' careers go. The show was made via its stake in audience participation, so that it was truly America's choice for who we wanted to see and hear. The shadiness this year has taken the wind out of thousands of people's sails, which to me is a real shame.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

iczer6
2003-05-23 12:00 am UTC (link)

>>See, this isn't fan wanking. This is supportable fact. The PR machine of the show really HAS been shoving Ruben Studdard down the public's throat as the "front runner" (despite having been in the bottom few a couple of times) since the semi-finals>>

Oh. My. God! You mean that the fate of a bunch of semi-talented teenagers does NOT rest in the hands of America's youth?! You mean that the people that run the show might have a [GASP] agenda!?

I can't believe that a trustworthy and upstanding corporation like FOX would EVER attempt to screw over the people!

Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

misswindy
2003-05-23 12:07 am UTC (link)

You mean that the fate of a bunch of semi-talented teenagers

Hee! Only one of the top 12 was a teenager. Ruben's my age (mid20s) and Clay is 23 or 24. And honestly, as a MusicNazi, I think four out of the top 5 were very talented, and a couple that got lost earlier (Rickey Smith and Vanessa Olivarez, the latter with whom I got to hang out with a bit when she was down in Miami) were very capable vocalists too. There were fewer cring-opportunities this season, for sure.

does NOT rest in the hands of America's youth?! You mean that the people that run the show might have a [GASP] agenda!?

Right, but why bother having people vote at all if you're going to be announcing in Newsweek that it doesn't matter? It's just bizarre and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kristenk2
2003-05-23 12:34 am UTC (link)

Right, but why bother having people vote at all if you're going to be announcing in Newsweek that it doesn't matter?

Because it *doesn't* matter. Simon could hate or love a contestant all he liked, but if the voters didn't agree with his analysis then they could ignore him and vote for whomever they wanted. After all, look at how long Josh lasted; Simon *loathed* him and the voters didn't seem to care.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

iczer6
2003-05-23 12:59 am UTC (link)

>>Right, but why bother having people vote at all if you're going to be announcing in Newsweek that it doesn't matter? It's just bizarre and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.>>

To give folks the illusion that they have control.

I'll add that I'm not talking about the judges, I'm talking about the FOX executives.

I mean it's pretty obvious that the people running the show have their favorites and their own agenda to push.

But maybe I'm just hideously bitter.

Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

misswindy
2003-05-23 01:05 am UTC (link)

To give folks the illusion that they have control.

What illusion? They're running around telling Newsweek they tried to rig it.

I'll add that I'm not talking about the judges, I'm talking about the FOX executives.

Dude!!! LOL!!! AI's judge IS the show's executive producer. Simon Cowell owns everything having to do with American Idol! He and his best friend, Simon Fuller, produce the show AND all the contestants' albums. It makes no sense! Anyway the point remains, you can't blame people for being all "What the shit is this???!" right now. You know?

I just don't think it's all that wanky, is all.

Well, the "Down with Lard" thing was. I cant' believe that chick is 23.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

iczer6
2003-05-23 01:08 am UTC (link)

>>AI's judge IS the show's executive producer. Simon Cowell owns everything having to do with American Idol! He and his best friend, Simon Fuller, produce the show AND all the contestants' albums. It makes no sense! Anyway the point remains, you can't blame people for being all "What the shit is this???!" right now. You know>>

In my defense I'll say that I've never watched the show. I'm not that fond of the whole 'Reality TV' craze. I really don't get it.

So I honestly had know idea that Simon was the one running the show.

I feel a bit stupid now....

Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	mynxkittie 2003-05-23 10:55 am UTC (link)
	Miami? What part? ^^ I still can't believe I missed the mall tour. I really wanted to meet Jim Verraros and pat his head. (Reply to this)(Parent)

circus
2003-05-23 12:03 am UTC (link)

Ruben was in the bottom two or three once in the entire competition. I'll grant you that Simon Cowell was pretty vocal about his preference for Ruben, and I'm not familiar with what you're referring to when you say "deliberately sabotaged Kimberley Locke in her last week because he "want[ed] Ruben in the finale."" Is this the selection of the songs thing?

But I watched the last weeks and I don't recall at all that Clay was harangued on a 'near weekly basis' either. I remember more than one positive review from Simon in the final weeks and the other two are never that negative to begin with. It's not like Clay didn't one or two crappy performances himself.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was some tinkering going on, but it's not like the people who liked Ruben were drugged by crazy squids. Some of us preferred him. Though, you know, maybe it was crazy squids sent by Fox.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

misswindy
2003-05-23 12:33 am UTC (link)

I'll grant you that Simon Cowell was pretty vocal about his preference for Ruben, and I'm not familiar with what you're referring to when you say "deliberately sabotaged Kimberley Locke in her last week because he "want[ed] Ruben in the finale."" Is this the selection of the songs thing?

No, Simon said in last week's issue of Newsweek that he was very dismayed by the rehearsals, because Kimberley was so much better than Ruben, and Clay was a definite for the finale, and he didn't want a Kimberley/Clay finale. He wanted a Kimberley/ Ruben finale. So he admitted to purposely giving her a hard time and going easy on Ruben, who sounded like he'd garbled with a metal dish scour, to purposely sway the vote.

In an article posted today in The Washington Post, Kimberley Locke confesses that she also thinks Clay (with whom she's moving in next month in L.A., so she may be biased) never had a chance in hell of winning, revealing that the producers told them quite explicitly that "they wanted Ruben" as the winner.

THAT's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

But I watched the last weeks and I don't recall at all that Clay was harangued on a 'near weekly basis' either.

The word "horrendous" was used 5 weeks ago. "Horrible" was 2 weeks ago ("Grease"). Tuesday night, "This Is The Night" got an "I hate your song" from Randy, and a "Hideous" from Simon. Simon also told him that "I can't believe how fucking ugly you used to be, but now you're handsome" in that same episode.

Simon ALSO made sure to throw out a bunch of "Hey, FANGIRLS! And any homophobic Josh Gracin fans who may vote for Clay! CLAY MIGHT BE GAY. Because he sounds like a Broadway singer. And Broadway=gay!" remarks every single week, including the finale.

remember more than one positive review from Simon in the final weeks and the other two are never that negative to begin with.

Simon ragged on Clay's appearance on a weekly basis. There was not one week, not ONE, where Simon did not give Clay a double-edged compliment about the way he looked, while NEVER noticing those enormous ratty stupid fucking 205 mumus that Ruben wore or the fact that he's as big as a house.

It's not like Clay didn't one or two crappy performances himself.

One or two out of, what, 30? I'd say those are pretty good odds. Ruben, on the other hand, was hit or miss all the way.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was some tinkering going on,

They've. Admitted. There. Is. Contestants AND producers.

but it's not like the people who liked Ruben were drugged by crazy squids. Some of us preferred him. Though, you know, maybe it was crazy squids sent by Fox.

Hee! Stupid FOX squids ruin EVERYTHING.

Honestly, I feel incredibly bad that Ruben's victory is tainted by FOX's meddling and obvious stupidity. Ruben doesn't suck by any means. Clay is indisputably a better vocalist, but Ruben deserved better than to be overshadowed by accusations of an undeserved million dollar contract. You know?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

circus
2003-05-23 05:29 am UTC (link)

Dude, Clay is probably better off having more ability to pick and choose what contract he signs, you know? I doubt Simon's is the best someone could get. Or are they both obligated to take Simon's offers, as it were? With the exposure all the last three got, they probably all will get well-deserved contracts pretty quickly. Maybe it's better to be Kimberley who has even more choice, and totally deserves a recording contract.

Which isn't the point, of course, because it does mean something to win. :)

And you know, personal bias here, but I just liked Kimberely and Ruben's voices more than Clay's. But I like Leonard Cohen's and Tom Waits's singing voices, so I clearly have no vocal training or taste. Heh.

When it come to the judges' comments, I remember the first time my friend forced me to watch, I kept asking her, "so wait, what's the value of the judges? Why are they there? It's all about the votes at this point?" Simon can say whatever, it's about whether people disagree or agree. So Simon rags on people in rehearsal or what have you or makes snide comments -- I can see the effect on the contestants but they all seemed pretty hardy, and I don't know that it affected the votes per se. God, look at Josh Gracin, speaking of people abused by Simon.

Wasn't there also some stink about the songs they had for Kimberley on her last show and Clay getting ragged on for his performance on Vincent when he had no rehearsal time? That's some fucked up crap right there.

Mostly, I didn't find Ruben hit or miss at all for the eps I saw, I was rooting for him because I enjoyed the songs. And generally, I found Simon's comments and critiques pretty off from what I liked each time. Song selection and not talking about rehearsal time or lack thereof strikes me as fixing totally, but Simon being his asnine self I don't completely buy as a fixing.

My god, we're our own wank now, I can't believe we're talking about this AI stuff in fandom_wank! But then, again, better company than most of the communities I've seen discussing this.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

mynxkittie
2003-05-23 10:53 am UTC (link)

There was not one week, not ONE, where Simon did not give Clay a double-edged compliment about the way he looked, while NEVER noticing those enormous ratty stupid fucking 205 mumus that Ruben wore or the fact that he's as big as a house.

HAHAHA. Too true. I don't know how he can critique anyone's clothing when Ruben kept "representin'" day in and out with those jerseys. Randy called it "keepin' it real"; I called it "unoriginal".

(Reply to this)(Parent)

pipssister
2003-05-25 12:29 am UTC (link)

My Mom said something similar. I remember her being annoyed that nobody ever said anything about Reuben's appearance, but everyone else was either ragged on for their looks (Clay) or their weight (Kimberly).

To be honest, I'm not fond of Simon, either. It's good to see someone actually be critical (Paula and the black guy really weren't) but I hate it when he makes comments about their personal appearance. Plus, he dissed Kate Hudson on Regis and Kathie Lee, saying she had no career, when she's more famous than he is and...

Okay, now *I'M* wanking. I'll shut up. :-X

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	mynxkittie 2003-05-23 10:41 am UTC (link)
	How do you explain Nikki winning over Tamyra last year, then? Fox wanting to let the audience think they indeed had control? This has me curious, 'cause while I hated Tamyra (yawn), she was better than Nikki. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lm 2003-05-25 12:13 am UTC (link)
	I don't think there was this kind of controversy last year. FOX seemed a lot more honest about the whole competition then. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sorchar 2003-05-22 06:45 pm UTC (link)
	Happy birthday, by the way. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	sagralisse 2003-05-22 07:46 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, happy birthday! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iczer6 2003-05-22 11:56 pm UTC (link)
	>>I don't really get the appeal of the show myself. Oh, if you haven't seen the show and don't want to be spoiled, don't click on the links.<< You and me both hon. I honestly can't bring myself to care if these people win, lose or get hit by a giant flaming comet, [though I'm rooting for the comet.] Icz (Reply to this)