The Shield: Kitty Killer Wank
It's old. It's a small fandom. But it's got animals involved!

Background: This all started when one of the detectives (Dutch) on The Shield strangled a cat in an apparent attempt to understand what motivates a killer. It was pretty graphic and it stirred up some shit on the boards.

I'd have to say it starts right about here with QuaintlyModern and caseylane pronouncing the scene over the top and unwatchable. katymo declares the scene compelling, but with a comedic ending. Clockstomper24 chimes in that he was saddened by the kitty's death, but is confused over the anger starting to mount on the board. Mr. Pointy agrees...except for the sadness part. He proclaims his hatred of cats and begins to bait posters in a not so subtle manner. turtlegirl bites and advocates the rape and murder of humans rather than killing a cat. JesseBaker claims "shock for shocks sake" and Jose Cheung says he had a front row seat to a shark jumping.

RandaPrince says watching the cat strangling was worse than watching the previous episode's male on male rape. She furthermore congratulates the fictional cat on getting some good shots in on his imaginary attacker. Mr. Pointy swoops in and takes her to task and even manages to get in a shot at PETA using her own post as ammo. Jose Cheung jumps in to defend RandaPrince's stance with minor backing from Grifter. Clockstomper24 drops the gloves and comes out swinging on Mr. Pointy's side. jmr states she can watch children be killed, but not animals. Mr. Pointy comes back in basically telling jmr her priorities are fucked and saying he's "silly that way".

sgib recognizes the humor and gets in a couple of good one liners (see last line, third paragraph for my favorite). jmr looks like a psycho by restating she isn't bothered by a fictional child's murder after just posting that she cannot bear to see a fictional animal die. Clockstomper24 pours gas on the fire, jerry cries "Why, Dutch, why?", and Mr. Pointy attempts a half-assed cease fire while still goading the cat lovers by proposing "we drop the debate on the Neckwringing of Doom that Dutch unleashed on the Magical Cancer Curing Pussy of Ghandi". jmr agrees, but only after "I say just one more thing on the subject" and starts again.

katymo sneaks in a funny under spoiler tags, but tasteier and jerry aren't satisfied with the amount of damage Dutch received while strangling the kitty. jerry holds out hope for a kitty revival. tasteier strangely admits a new phrase in her vocabulary.

JackiFL admits to the strange vocabulary addition as well. Newbie plumedserpent comes in, disregards the FAQ, rehashes what was already discussed, rallies everyone to protest, and informs the masses that it was *gasp* a toy cat. Grifter and Brandon snark on her gently, but Mr. Pointy is not amused. suctionprints cheers him on as he drops all niceties.

plumedserpent questions the scruples of the entertainment industry and turtlegirl defends it's honor. plumedserpent keeps it going. Everybody else ignores them.

trancer puts things in perspective and coins the term "stunt pussy". Mr. Pointy continues his onslaught on plumedserpent and is rewarded with what is basically a "Whatever" post. The mod, keckler, finally jumps in and warns plumedserpent. However, Mr. Pointy is responding at the same time and they post only minutes apart. Mr. Pointy declares himself the winner by labeling plumedserpent "full of sound and fury...signifying nothing". Then he apologizes to the mod! Her response? "That's fine, but let's get back on topic."

Fabulous.

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herongale
2004-10-01 12:46 pm UTC (link)

I dunno. Animal abuse, even fake animal abuse, is intolerable. I haven't seen the scene in question, but it seems like it would be pretty hard to watch.

I have a hard time imagining how this would be acted out without forcing a cat to actually feel scared, even if it isn't actively harmed. That's the big difference between using animals and using children in cinema... child actors are usually protected from psychological trauma (rightly so). I'm pretty sure animals do not enjoy this protection. So even if an animal is not harmed, it still might be subject to terror. I don't like that.

I'm sorry. I'm sure this wank is all funny and stuff based on over-the-top reactions on both sides of the debate. But I won't be reading it. The underlying issue is just too damn depressing.

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	solelyfictional 2004-10-01 05:57 pm UTC (link)
	I think it was pointed out in amongst the wank that it was in fact a fake cat, at least for the strangling part. You couldn't really pretend with an animal anyway, it'd scratch you to bits. Just trying to give the damn things worming tablets results in grevious injury. ^_^ (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	fuzzytowers 2004-10-02 12:04 am UTC (link)
	LOL Pilling a cat is one of the top five things I am least likely to want to do in a day. It hurts. A lot. ^_^; Animals can defend themselves, but they do have limits. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	herongale 2004-10-02 03:08 am UTC (link)
	Oh, a fake cat is different. :) I couldn't read the wank to closely, the very idea of it traumatized me, so I missed that bit. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	mouseybrown 2004-10-01 01:23 pm UTC (link)
	This reminds me of a dairy wank back when Twister (remember that monstrosity?) came out and someone went on a chatboard to bemoan the cruelty to cows in a scene where two animals of the bovine persuassion get sucked up into a tornado. It was four pages and 15 comments of "shut the fuck up! You suck" before the wanker twigged that the cows weren't real ... (Reply to this)(Thread)

	big_bad_wolf 2004-10-01 02:15 pm UTC (link)
	...Wow, there really are some astounding idiots on the intARweb ... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2004-10-01 05:47 pm UTC (link)
	Hee. Or try being on the Buffy newsgroups at the beginning of S6. "OMG, Willow KILLED BAMBI! I'm SO TRAUMATIZED!" --funwithrage (Reply to this)(Parent)

	alpheratz 2004-10-01 09:43 pm UTC (link)
	...That's almost as good as believing that the flying cow in Monty Python and the Holy Grain was real. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mouseybrown 2004-10-01 11:35 pm UTC (link)
	But that was real! And they put it in a catapault! Those Python bastards!!! Won't someone think about Daisy? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	jaseroque 2004-10-02 03:06 pm UTC (link)
	It was a real cow, though! It was just... already dead. (Really.) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2004-10-04 05:42 pm UTC (link)
	Actually, I think it was just one cow. grin (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mouseybrown 2004-10-05 01:38 pm UTC (link)
	Actually, I think it was just one cow. grin looks embarrassed Well ... erm ... the trauma (yes, the trauma) was such that it felt like more. A whole flock of cows being twirled in the air. Very upsetting. I needed counselling for months. nods (Reply to this)(Parent)

	trollprincess 2004-10-01 02:33 pm UTC (link)
	Dutch killed a cat?! mind boggles (Reply to this)(Thread)

	jennilee 2004-10-01 08:07 pm UTC (link)
	Oh brother. rolls eyes Oh, and check out my shiny new JF account! ^_^ (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	jennilee 2004-10-01 08:08 pm UTC (link)
	And oops, that wasn't supposed to be a reply to you! I always click on the wrong link... (Reply to this)(Parent)

blue_linnet
2004-10-01 09:19 pm UTC (link)

Alright..you know, I went and read the thread, and at first I had sympathy for the anti-cat-killer side moreso, but now, well..I like animals fine. I love cats. But I don't understand why some people will get SO much more upset over animal distress than human distress. It's like..it's fine to watch men, women and children being maimed, tortured, raped and killed, but as soon as an animal gets involved it's the most horrible thing ever? What? Why? I saw this in high school quite a bit. After the Columbine murder, some of the people were making sarcastic/joking remarks about it, but a local story about a dog who got killed brought them to tears. I don't know..it sucks when an animal gets hurt, but good lord people.

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(Anonymous)
2004-10-01 09:25 pm UTC (link)

I honestly don't know what it is, but I will cry 10 times harder and more easily whenever I hear a sob story about an animal, than with anything to do with people. It's not because I think it's fabulous when people die/get hurt. And I also get really upset at child abuse, but the animal thing is just slightly worse than that as far as my response is concerned. Maybe we're just completely inured to the violence of humans upon humans? I have no idea. I can't help it, it is 100% knee-jerk reaction.

--sappy anon

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	ipomoea 2004-10-01 10:01 pm UTC (link)
	JMO, I think it has to do with the perception of animals as being more trusting, weaker and more defenseless than other people, who are perceived as being more equal in regard to ability to fight back. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

oysteria
2004-10-01 11:26 pm UTC (link)

That's my take on it. (I have the same knee-jerk reaction to stories/depictions of violence towards animals, especially domesticated animals.) The more innocent--or if you prefer, more ignorant--and helpless the victim, the more upsetting I find it--violence towards children is more upsetting than violence towards adults, violence towards a trusting pet or a harmless, unaggressive wild animal is more upsetting than violence towards a grizzly bear.

When I thought about it, I decided that I wouldn't be more upset by watching a cat be strangled to death than a baby--but I'm a lot more likely to be subjected to the image of a cat being strangled. Media does abound with images of abused children--children being beaten by adults or other children, being hit by cars or having fatal accidents (but mostly offscreen), occasionally, the actual image of a dead child--and also with pictureless stories about maimed or murdered children. However, at least in the books I read and the movies and shows I watch, actual graphic depictions of young children being murdered are extremely rare--especially in comparison to actual graphic depictions of adults being murdered.

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	kinneas 2004-10-02 06:07 am UTC (link)
	I just like my kitties and doggies and hamsters (no, they smell) and whatnot ;_; Global mass media will spell the ruin of the world. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	crysiana 2004-10-02 06:25 am UTC (link)
	I was going to post, but you just described what I feel much better than I could. It reminds me of the scene in Boondock Saints where a cat is shot. The movie contains a lot of violence, but the only thing that actually made me feel horrible was the cat. I nearly cried when it died, and I whapped the person next to me on the back of the head for laughing. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mael 2004-10-04 12:09 am UTC (link)
	but it was really funny I mean, it made me very upset. Oh, okay. It did. Just a little. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	chaos_seahorse 2004-10-02 10:44 am UTC (link)
	I feel pretty much the same way, I think. Animal abuse just upsets me a lot more for some reason, though child abuse does bother me more than violence towards adults. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	squib 2004-10-02 12:59 am UTC (link)
	Not just that, but animals can't be asshats. The problem with humans is that they come with all the annoyances of being human. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	lurker32 2004-10-02 02:27 am UTC (link)
	Not just that, but animals can't be asshats You haven't met my cat, obviously. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-10-03 07:30 am UTC (link)
	AHAHAHA! Cats are the exception for all things. (Reply to this)(Parent)

lurker32
2004-10-01 11:33 pm UTC (link)

I dunno. You can argue that at least a human knows why s/he's being hurt, even if the reason is "this other human is insane". You can't say to the kitty "Junior did a bad thing to you, but he's gone away and he won't hurt you anymore" -- or, well, you can, but he's even less likely to understand you than a kid would be. It's worse than hurting a person in the same sense as hurting a kid is worse than hurting an adult.

People who have no trouble with child abuse but cry over the widdle doggies, OTOH... well, those people have Issues.

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mbutterflye
2004-10-02 06:39 am UTC (link)

To me, seeing an animal abused is akin to seeing a child abused. They're dependant on you, don't understand why you're doing that to them and are likely to be scarred for the rest of their life after having been harmed by you. Adults are more resilient in the fact that they have the mental capacity to cope with abuse with time. At least, most of us do. *shrugs* I just can't help but see harming something that is in your care and dependant on your for its very life as extremely disturbing/sickening/what have you.

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ladybirdsleeps
2004-10-02 11:46 pm UTC (link)

For me, it's not a matter of how wrong it is - it's more upsetting because of how accepted it is.

When I see a depiction of child abuse on TV, I'm not thinking of the toddler that had a firecracker shoved up its ass, gasoline poured over its fur, and was set on fire. I'm certainly not thinking about how many people seriously think that doing such a thing was funny.

It just hits closer to home, to me. I don't think that makes me crazy.

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blue_linnet
2004-10-03 12:14 am UTC (link)

Sorry; I didn't mean to imply that you were crazy. Many people have given eloquent defenses on why they feel this way, and I think it's reasonable to be upset by it. I think that it's more like...okay, I *don't* feel any particular distress at seeing a fictional animal harmed (no more than a human at any rate). When I hear about real stories where that happens, I get really bothered (especially by people who think that's amusing...seriously, what the fuck?), but just..not to any greater degree than when it's people. So I'm getting that it's just an emotional reaction some people have. I think that because it's very widespread, and because I *don't* have that particular reaction, it's a little baffling to me on some level.

Not sure if I'm explaining this...I think that it's fine to be more bothered by a particular sort of abuse or violence, but some of the people on the thread seemed to be saying that it was objectively worse for that show to be depicting such things, and I don't agree with that. The 'animals are innocent' argument makes some sense, but so are a lot of the people who get killed on crime shows, often extremely gratuitously.

I actually haven't seen The Shield, so I can't comment on that direct instance, though.

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oxydosic
2004-10-04 07:04 pm UTC (link)

I don't know what it is, but i can watch people being chopped up in movies all day long but if anything happens to an animal it bothers me a lot. I'm really glad i didn't see this scene on the show, because it probably would have given me nightmares. I'm just really sensitive about stuff happening to animals, even though i know one actually isn't being hurt in the movies/tv/ Though i don't trust some idiots out there to now try it just to see what it's like.

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(Anonymous)
2004-10-02 01:17 am UTC (link)

I can't believe that people are still going on about this. At the time, I remember having an extremely negative reaction...but not just for the cat, but for Dutch's very mind. He always seems to be on the edge to me, and I was so worried about him around that story line.

The Shield is a very, very harsh show, full of violence, and fear, and horror, and things are turn your stomach. I don't think they've ever gone over the top, but you better be prepared for what you're going to see. It was a show designed to be on HBO, and it still behaves that way.

pepperlandgirl4@lj.

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	alina_kalime 2004-10-02 02:10 am UTC (link)
	I guess no one should show these kids the Bonsai Kittens hoax. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-10-03 07:38 am UTC (link)
	I can't decide whether I'm freaked out or entertained. Of course, that is what makes an excellent hoax. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-10-03 09:54 am UTC (link)
	Actually that hoax bothered me a lot. Not cuz of the kittens, but because it reeked off, "those krazy azns like to bend kitties OMG! In Japan, people do this! It's art! HAHAHAH those crazy 'orientals'." >.> Bah. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2004-10-02 02:54 am UTC (link)
	The character was arrested, right? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-10-02 03:06 am UTC (link)
	The character's a cop and prior to that incident was regarded by fans as one of the few cops who was also a "good guy". (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2004-10-02 10:39 am UTC (link)

Dude, why would he be arrested? That was probably one of the most mundane thing any cop has done on that show. I can see it now. Captain Aceveda is debating "Should I go after Dutch the cat killer or should I go after Vic, the corrupt, blackmailing, theiving, murdering bastard" (and those are only his illegal doings...it doesn't bring in into the picture all the unethical shit he does.)

Besides, nobody knew about the cat incident.

Also, at the end of the season, Dutch adopted an unwanted kitten and seemed to genuinely like it and didn't seem to have any threatening or awful intentions towards it. I doubt it's going to be a pattern of behaivor.

pepperlandgirl4@lj

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	(Anonymous) 2004-10-03 06:51 am UTC (link)
	Dude, why would he be arrested? Because what he did is illegal... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-10-03 07:39 am UTC (link)
	Really? Hurting a toy cat is illegal? I'd better go smack my cat around a bit, then. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-10-03 10:01 am UTC (link)
	I'm talking about the character, not the actor. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-10-04 02:39 am UTC (link)
	I'm digging this anon thread, and will thus help it grow. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	backfromspace 2004-10-02 05:00 pm UTC (link)
	Am I the only one who flashes back to the X-Files in the part with Jose Chung? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2004-10-04 07:31 pm UTC (link)
	And I thought I was weird for making that connection. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	panthea 2004-10-04 09:05 pm UTC (link)
	Dude. This is the first time I've EVAR had this problem. RandaPrince? Step off my name, dude. Not that I'm even following this thing at all. But... really. Step off the name. (Reply to this)