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Egplant dike ass ([info]jrs1980) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2004-10-07 02:43:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Righteous

IMDb wank. Hey, at least it's reliable.
The indie movie Saved! had a bit of IMDb wank on here back in August. It just came out on DVD and I'm not much for breaking new ground. (There's a few choice bits at Amazon, too [The message should not be that Christians need to accept sinful homosexual behavior but the message should be that Jesus Christ can change the homosexual.], but not much wank.) Anyway, between the fourteen "When is this coming out" and "What did you think"s, there's a bit of fun.

So, on the IMDb board for Saved!, pat-224, a self-proclaimed Christian, gives a thoughtful review that is made better just by having seen the movie. (You'd be surprised.) He concludes:

See the movie for yourselves people, if nothing else challenge yourselves in your beliefs and check yourself to see WHY you believe what you do. I do it as much as possible and as shocking as it may be, have never denounced my faith.
Enter Shoeihell. It's easier just to read the thread, but basically, s/he starts off sane, but keeps revisiting the thread and the sane...goes away. The OP hasn't responded yet, but other people are picking up the slack. The argument is basically "It doesn't say that in your religion." "The Bible says this." "Yeah, I don't believe in the Bible. What else you got?" and devolves into
So go ahead and think homosexuality is a sin if it turns your crank, because I think your faith is a travesty and a sham.
and
The Bible is a book of fairy tales and indeed, some are interesting and some lessons therein would seem to fit today.
Ahhh, respect for your opponent's beliefs. Gotta love it.

S/he also started up practically the same argument in a brand!new!thread!


(Post a new comment)


[info]adora_spintriae
2004-10-07 11:32 am UTC (link)
Remember Kids: Tolerance Swings Both Ways

Of people: yes. Of pig-ignorant and bigoted views: no.

The truth of the matter, as was made in the movie, is that Christians, for the most part, lack the vision of diversity & tolerance. That doesn't make them bad people, but people who can't think 'out of the box'.

It also makes them "Bad Christians".

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]oysteria
2004-10-07 07:10 pm UTC (link)
It also makes them "Bad Christians".

It's distressing how rarely this point is made. Christianity is, at heart, a nice religion, and if you follow Jesus's teachings, you should be a nice person. All for the good. People who go around beating up gays, Wiccans, and welfare mothers? Not nice. Jesus disapproves.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]bubosquared
2004-10-07 09:03 pm UTC (link)
In all fairness, Christianity does have a history of really, really bad PR. (You! Out of my religion!)

Jesus disapproves.

That so needs to be iconised! *hits google for pictures*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]littlest_lurker, 2004-10-07 11:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2004-10-08 12:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]littlest_lurker, 2004-10-08 01:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2004-10-08 01:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2004-10-08 07:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2004-10-08 10:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]senor_pinata, 2004-10-10 07:51 am UTC

[info]teratologist
2004-10-08 01:56 am UTC (link)
To be fair, there is that whole distressing Old Testament bears-eating-children, conquering-countries-and-taking-their-women-as-slaves, pissy-jealous-God thing. But the Jews have that too and most of them are pretty laid back about taking virgin slaves nowadays.

Also, Revelations? With the fire and smoke and locusts. I can see where that would freak people out, if one were to take it literally *coughTimLaHayecough*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-10-08 01:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fuzzytowers, 2004-10-08 03:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2004-10-09 09:33 pm UTC

[info]coffee_mug
2004-10-07 02:02 pm UTC (link)
Does my wankdar need fixing, because I never saw the wankiness. I mean, shoeinshell is obviously ignorant, but I don't know. If there's wank, I don't think it's all that extreme.

The OP had a good point. Everyone should question their faith once in a while. In fact, even those who don't believe should question their non-faith. It's only healthy.

I really want to see this movie. I didn't see it at this festival where it was shown, because I had to be at school, but I hope it comes out on DVD or something.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]coffee_mug
2004-10-07 02:02 pm UTC (link)
Er, shoeihell or whatever, sorry. Misread the name.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]chia_rhino
2004-10-07 02:40 pm UTC (link)
It's already out on dvd.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]coffee_mug
2004-10-07 07:41 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, in the US. I live in the "we-get-all-DVD's-and-films-very-very-late"-land.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]serai
2004-10-07 05:19 pm UTC (link)
Funny, I didn't see shoeihell doing anything but expressing his opinion. And not even very nastily at that. Being gay, I imagine he's had some pretty extensive opportunities to see just how bigoted and pissy Christians can get. Hell, I'm not gay, and I've gotten the sharp end of the stick from those people numerous times.

Christ, if saying what you think on a topic, and sticking to your position, is wanking, then what isn't?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]oysteria
2004-10-07 07:12 pm UTC (link)
Remember, wank=anything the wank reporter disagrees with, no matter how reasonably expressed.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]serai
2004-10-08 04:26 am UTC (link)
Hm, thanks. I'd been wondering about that for quite a while now. I had some vague idea that there was some sort of reasonable definition to this, but I guess I was wrong. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]oysteria, 2004-10-08 05:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]serai, 2004-10-08 09:12 am UTC

[info]kookaburra
2004-10-07 08:44 pm UTC (link)
I think the wank = people talking about Christianity when they have no idea what the hell they're talking about. And that goes for people on both sides of the debate.

Also, when Shoehell quotes the Bible, and when someone else does it, and does it to support him, he jumps down thier throats.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]serai
2004-10-08 04:09 am UTC (link)
OK, just a second. I gotta put your brakes on here. How are you judging who knows "what the hell they're talking about" when it comes to Christianity? It's not as if it's some obscure, foreign faith practiced in Outer Mongolia that no one in Western countries would understand. There's nobody in the Americas or Europe, just for a start, who isn't going to have some views on Christianity (even if they aren't believers) which are based in perfectly valid personal experience. The fact that you may not agree with them hardly makes them nonsensical or ill-informed.

I'm getting pretty tired of Christians (of whatever stripe) getting all high and mighty about how those who don't agree with their particular sect are somehow know-nothings or blasphemers. Christianity is a huge umbrella, encompassing beliefs as different as literal scripturalism, veneration of saints, Gnoticism, the homousion - homoiousion controvery, and angelic script magic, to name just a few. So any attempt to deride someone else with a different view as having no right to speak is ignorant at best.

And as to know knowing what one is talking about when it comes to the behavior of Christians, excuse me but anyone who has ever come in contact with such behavior has authority to talk about it. Any action can be made the subject of an opinion by anyone who witnesses it. If I started yelling at you in the street for wearing the color green, you'd be perfectly in your rights to think me a lunatic. Likewise, if I walked up to you and gave you a piece of cake just because I thought you looked hungry, you'd be within your rights to think me a nice person. If Shoeihell has been the subject of ugly behavior from Christians on account of being gay, he's certainly got a right to think them assholes, and to say so as well.

Further, I don't see him "jumping down" anyone's throat. He's made a very valid point - backing up a point by quoting Scripture to someone who does not place any moral authority on the Bible is useless. He states it very clearly. It's the people who keep insisting on doing it, having been told it won't get them anywhere, that are spinning their wheels.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - meshou, 2004-10-08 05:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]serai, 2004-10-08 05:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]24601, 2004-10-08 06:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkwitch666, 2004-10-08 03:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2004-10-08 05:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]serai, 2004-10-08 06:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2004-10-08 06:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]entelodont, 2004-10-08 05:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]serai, 2004-10-08 06:04 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-10-09 04:23 am UTC
*snort* - [info]serai, 2004-10-09 05:25 am UTC

meshou
2004-10-07 10:27 pm UTC (link)
His response to someone saying "I don't think you're going to hell. I never read it in the bible." was "Yes you do, you have to! It's in your dogma! And either you believe it or you're smart! DECIDE." and "You believe a lie! Lie lie lie!"

Yeah. Way to alienate someone on your side, Shoeihell. I get a feeling no matter how I treated him, me trucking with Jesus would mean I was an evol gay basher.

He didn't start this in response to anything even remotely anti-gay, and the only anti-gay Christian was a member of the LDS. Seeing as their beliefs make many other Christians go "Wait... BUH??" you can pretty safely assume that what Mormons say they believe doesn't necessarily apply to any other denomination.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2004-10-08 01:44 am UTC (link)
Most Christians don't even consider Mormons a denomination of Christianity. We consider them another religion entirely. Their beliefs veer too far from Christian doctrine.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - meshou, 2004-10-08 01:55 am UTC
(no subject) - bigi, 2004-10-08 02:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xylona, 2004-10-08 03:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sesana, 2004-10-08 07:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]froda_baggins, 2004-10-08 08:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2004-10-09 08:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]serai, 2004-10-08 04:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oysteria, 2004-10-08 05:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]serai, 2004-10-08 06:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]misswindy, 2004-10-08 10:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]serai, 2004-10-09 05:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]misswindy, 2004-10-09 06:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oysteria, 2004-10-09 09:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]misswindy, 2004-10-09 07:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oysteria, 2004-10-09 08:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]misswindy, 2004-10-09 10:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]misswindy, 2004-10-09 06:58 am UTC
Catholics aren't Christians??????? - (Anonymous), 2004-10-17 12:39 am UTC
Re: Catholics aren't Christians??????? - [info]serai, 2004-10-17 04:32 am UTC
Re: Catholics aren't Christians??????? - (Anonymous), 2004-10-17 09:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]thwackboom, 2004-10-08 12:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]serai, 2004-10-08 05:55 am UTC
(no subject) - meshou, 2004-10-08 07:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]serai, 2004-10-08 07:30 am UTC
(no subject) - meshou, 2004-10-08 08:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]serai, 2004-10-08 09:08 am UTC
(no subject) - meshou, 2004-10-08 10:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dwarfjen, 2004-10-08 10:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkwitch666, 2004-10-08 03:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashenmote, 2004-10-08 04:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkwitch666, 2004-10-09 04:39 am UTC

[info]wordjunkie
2004-10-08 05:27 am UTC (link)
Jesus Christ can change the homosexual

O__o

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]littlest_lurker
2004-10-08 07:27 am UTC (link)
with the power of his mind.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-10-08 08:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2004-10-08 10:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]windex_junkie, 2004-10-08 02:46 pm UTC

[info]andsoyoudied
2004-10-08 10:32 am UTC (link)
I actually had Jesus Christ to reveal himself again, he would change the homosexual. Into a happy homosexual.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]froda_baggins
2004-10-08 08:05 am UTC (link)
Hm. Seems very self-contradictory to me. Some of what Shoeile or whatever-the-heck his/her name is said made me nod in agreement, but when s/he started going on about how I've been "brainwashed"? Yeah, not cool. I'm not going to tell her/him that s/he is brainwashed for what s/he believes, so don't do it to me, thanks.

(Reply to this)


[info]andsoyoudied
2004-10-08 10:36 am UTC (link)
The Bible is a book of fairy tales and indeed, some are interesting and some lessons therein would seem to fit today.

</i>Ahhh, respect for your opponent's beliefs. Gotta love it.</i>

Well, I think the Bible is a set of metaphores, whose non-literal meaning rings still true today. Is that disrespectful?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]darkwitch666
2004-10-08 03:22 pm UTC (link)
OMG!! DUN ANYLIZE MI BELEEFS!!!111! LIEK WHOA!!!!111!!11!

;)

I think it's a really heavy book.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]andsoyoudied, 2004-10-08 07:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkwitch666, 2004-10-09 04:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]andsoyoudied, 2004-10-09 01:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]misswindy, 2004-10-09 07:03 am UTC

[info]misswindy
2004-10-08 10:31 pm UTC (link)
I think the Bible is a set of metaphores, whose non-literal meaning rings still true today. Is that disrespectful?

I personally don't think so, even though I disagree. There's something inherently infantilicizing, derogatory and inflammatory about calling people's beliefs "fairy tales" though, all of which is lacking in your statement. =)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]andsoyoudied, 2004-10-09 01:43 pm UTC

[info]kraken_sleeps
2004-10-08 03:22 pm UTC (link)
I feel a Red Dwarf quote coming on:

Lister: They're just using religion as an excuse to be extremely crappy towards each other.
Toaster: So what else is new?

And that's only in this thread. Nevermind what happened in the original wank. *sighs*

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]wordjunkie
2004-10-09 12:53 am UTC (link)
And that's only in this thread. Nevermind what happened in the original wank. *sighs*

religion makes me cry.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kraken_sleeps, 2004-10-09 06:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lots42, 2004-10-09 09:35 pm UTC

[info]reinhardt
2004-10-09 01:38 am UTC (link)
I think I love you now.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kraken_sleeps, 2004-10-09 06:22 pm UTC

 
   
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