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I put the ram in the ram-a-lam-a-ding-dong ([info]telesilla) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2004-10-09 02:39:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Super Six One is going down! or; Pliajiarizm in BHD fandom
The wank, it stalks me like a big stalking thing that strides across fandom wanking as it strides.

OK actually, I'm only involved in this one as an observer, but Black Hawk Down is my newest Bright Shiny Object fandom.

So, stewardess_lotr wrote a very popular BHD fic featuring "Hoot" Gibson (Eric Bana) and Todd Blackburn (Orlando Bloom). Things were going swimmingly with the fic being praised to the skies and everyone was happy.



Along comes alarielle, who grabs enough of stewardess' fic to cause cries of plagiarism to ring forth across the land. Stewardess has pulled the fic and asked alarielle to pull her fic. That part of it is only wanky in that alarielle hasn't owned up to her crime, but that whole thing is documented at length in this post in stewardess' LJ and isn't the real reason for this post.

The real wank gets going in comments to that post. The first whole page of comments is about what you'd expect -- stewardess' friends showing up and being comforting, outraged, supportive and so on. When suddenly, along comes penny_bridge who thinks that stewardess' claims aren’t valid and then, warns stewardess that under Irish libel laws (alarielle and penny_bridge both being Irish) she could be sued for slander, OMG!

It's really a mini wank, but is compounded by the interesting fact that penny_bridge created her LJ on the very same day she commented on stewardess' post. But it's a coincidence because:

in case you think i know this alarielle, i don't. i know it is odd. Irish guy being the first to put hand up and say Question to evidence. I don't know who she is in real life and If i do know the girl well not to worry i don't know she is alarielle. (if that makes sense to any one.)

Um ... okay!


(Post a new comment)


kroki_refur
2004-10-09 03:35 pm UTC (link)
It is risky to use my AU as source material, for all of my Hoot/Todd stories are an original work thinly disguised as fanfiction.

This type of plagiarism is easily spotted, yet it never ends, for there is always a fresh crop of folks who wish to be lauded as writers without doing the actual writing bit.

I am confident enough to make alterations to reality, for I know the reality I am altering

It may just be me, but I get really annoyed when people use "for" instead of "because" in this kind of context. People, you're writing a cool-headed denunciation of (alleged) plagiarism, not Lord of the Rings! It just sounds unbearably pompous...

/rant

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]renata_hpjc
2004-10-09 10:52 pm UTC (link)
That's what semicolons are for. Yup.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2004-10-09 03:48 pm UTC (link)
This should go in i_wank and you know it. Grudge wanks here make YOU look wanky.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]kyuuketsukirui
2004-10-09 04:04 pm UTC (link)
Wha? How is it [info]i_wank if the poster isn't even involved? I suppose I shouldn't expect mice to use logic.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]eyebrowofdoom, 2004-10-09 04:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2004-10-09 10:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2004-10-10 02:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pseudoblu, 2004-10-10 03:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]darkrose, 2004-10-10 03:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dana_kujan, 2004-10-10 02:29 pm UTC

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-10-10 05:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]telesilla, 2004-10-10 05:56 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-10-10 05:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telesilla, 2004-10-11 07:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]renjenri, 2004-10-10 08:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]msilverstar, 2004-10-10 07:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2004-10-11 04:23 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-10-11 05:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]msilverstar, 2004-10-12 01:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oulangi, 2004-10-12 01:30 am UTC

[info]mouseybrown
2004-10-09 06:49 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for those few kind words. We'll give them full and due consideration before filing them under "Total Gobshite".

Thank you and come back soon, ya hear?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]calluna
2004-10-09 07:50 pm UTC (link)
See, because you changed the wank by observing it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]txvoodoo, 2004-10-09 09:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]25th_of_april, 2004-10-10 07:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2004-10-09 09:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]isntitironic, 2004-10-10 05:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]vassilissa, 2004-10-10 08:34 am UTC

[info]ashenmote
2004-10-09 04:23 pm UTC (link)
A lot of stuff to read for no wtf-moment in return. :(

The penny_bridge person looks incoherent and precocious. Like someone who just got a LJ and now butts in to impress everyone with their independent-thinking skillz and free unwarranted advice.

But my socks&minions-spidersense doesn't ring here, sorry.

(Reply to this)


[info]melusine
2004-10-09 05:36 pm UTC (link)
Maybe it's just me, but I've seen little made-up details in some of my fics repeated in others and, instead of crying out "I WILL SMITE THAT DIRTY PLAGIARIST WITH A SPORK OF FIRE!", I just grinned and was tickled that someone liked that detail enough to use it in their fic. I honestly don't see what the big deal is in cases of fanon drift. Word for word plagiarism is an issue, but not what she's talking about.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]kraken_sleeps
2004-10-09 06:13 pm UTC (link)
I think I'd be bloody flattered. I, ah, lifted a description of a character's ability to dance from a fic I read, managed to credit the wrong writer in my A/Ns and when the real writer came across it, she thought she'd pinched it from me!

(this anecdote has a happy ending; I changed my A/Ns and the writer in question was very flattered)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rob1
2004-10-09 07:32 pm UTC (link)
Yea, I saw this before and managed not to chime in on the original thread, but I didn't think it was a clear cut case of plagiarism either. It may be sloppy research a 'fanon drift', but nothing to throw a fit about.

Reminds me of that one wank where someone screamed 'plagiarism' because someone else wrote an X-men fic with Logan and Rogue baking gingerbread cookies- and 'OMG!!! they were shaped like X-men, just like in my fic!!!'

Eh, given that fanfic is derivitive, I think hypocritical to get too upset about other folks being derivitive of our own work. Direct copying- yes. 'Inspired by'- not so much.

(Course, not like I went through in read the fics, so I suppose it could have been bad enough to warrant the rant. Maybe.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-10-10 03:06 am UTC

[info]sahz
2004-10-09 05:50 pm UTC (link)
Dammit where's that "playjerizm" icon when you need it? :P

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]cleolinda
2004-10-09 08:12 pm UTC (link)
Will mine do?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]artimusdin, 2004-10-09 09:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cleolinda, 2004-10-09 11:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]artimusdin, 2004-10-09 11:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhi_silverflame, 2004-10-09 11:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]artimusdin, 2004-10-09 11:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ichigatsu, 2004-10-10 06:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]artimusdin, 2004-10-10 06:46 am UTC
(no subject) - mbutterflye, 2004-10-10 07:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]artimusdin, 2004-10-10 07:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iscoffy, 2004-10-12 04:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sahz, 2004-10-10 05:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sahz, 2004-10-10 05:00 pm UTC

[info]oulangi
2004-10-09 09:14 pm UTC (link)
*Is still sobbing that it's GONE*

(Reply to this)


[info]lots42
2004-10-09 09:25 pm UTC (link)
Blackhawk Down slash disturbs me on so many different levels.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]xero_sky
2004-10-09 11:28 pm UTC (link)
Me too.

But not in a happy, shiney "Wheee! A new fetish!" kind of way.

:(

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2004-10-10 02:57 am UTC (link)
No effin' kidding. It's like RPS, but ... not. CONFUZION.

(Perhaps I'm only biased because Black Hawk Down left brain scars like no other. That's the last time I rhetorically ask, "hey, how do those turret gunners not get mowed in half?". Weep.)

~sairobi @ LJ

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]andsoyoudied
2004-10-10 12:31 am UTC (link)
Meh. Maybe it's mean of me, but I always find the drama self-aggrandizing when everybody on the Internet besides the plagiarist agrees with you that it was a Bad Thing.

(Reply to this)


[info]megmurry
2004-10-10 06:10 am UTC (link)
I sent her one or two more emails, strongly suggesting she do some research.

So she stopped sending her emails, did what the OP wanted her to, and the OP KEPT EMAILING HER? Am I the only one who thinks maybe the OP went a bit overboard with her crusade here?

But alarielle doesn't know this, as she has done no research other than seeing the film, so she has made mistake after mistake, using only my and other BHD fanfiction as her source material.

Yeah, how dare she use the source material as source material! Bad writer!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]kyuuketsukirui
2004-10-10 06:22 am UTC (link)
Yeah, how dare she use the source material as source material! Bad writer!

That's not what she said at all. She said that this girl used her fic (which apparently is quite AU in many ways) as source material.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]boadicea, 2004-10-10 07:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]crysiana, 2004-10-10 08:26 am UTC

[info]zarla
2004-10-10 07:30 am UTC (link)
I've had Hoot ask Todd a couple of times, "You okay?" The first story in which he did it was Reprimand, during which Todd also looks Hoot up and down. It was posted August 23. On August 27, alarielle posted her graveyard fic, in which Todd "gives Hoot the once-over," and asks "Y'okay?". It's little stuff, but irritating as hell.

Does this sound really paranoid ta anyone else?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Actually
[info]zorrorojo
2004-10-10 08:38 am UTC (link)
without having read either fic, I'd say that that sentiment isn't copied from one author to another-- it's a trite, unimaginative, descriptive bit of writing used by mediocre writers everywhere.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]mrbimble
2004-10-10 09:23 am UTC (link)
dunno... I read the original post and discussion and didn't see plagiarism. I see an author that wrote a very popular series of AU stories... so popular that another fan took some of her conventions, dialog patterns and such and applied them to her stories.

yes, I know the official definition of plagiarism includes taking someone else's ideas, not just word-for-word stealing. But it also seems to me that when one is writing in a fandom, particularly a *small* fandom, that certain ideas/conventions become accepted. It's 'fanon'.

[for example, in La Femme Nikita, it's generally accepted that Michael can cook and Nikita can't. Is this canon? No. But someone, somewhere, wrote a story incorporating this idea and it was very popular and other writers used it too. Is that plagiarism?]

Seemed to me that stewardess was a little paranoid about her stories and her universe creation. ::shrug:: Can't blame her, but I don't agree with her that the other girl truly plagiarized.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]crysiana
2004-10-10 08:32 am UTC (link)
...I don't know if anyone here can answer my question, but is it, as they say, commonly accepted that if you watch a movie based on real events/a book, you have to also read the book and research the real events in order to write about it? Or is that just another facet of the wank?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]iczer6
2004-10-10 10:03 am UTC (link)
I don't think you *have* to do anything if you want to write a fic, but I do think it's a good idea to try and learn as much about the canon as you can before putting a fic up.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]megmurry, 2004-10-10 10:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]crysiana, 2004-10-11 12:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2004-10-11 03:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]crysiana, 2004-10-11 04:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2004-10-11 04:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]singe, 2004-10-11 07:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2004-10-11 07:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aloysius, 2004-10-10 10:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]crysiana, 2004-10-11 12:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aloysius, 2004-10-11 10:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]crysiana, 2004-10-11 03:30 pm UTC
good question - (Anonymous), 2004-10-11 03:04 am UTC
Re: good question - [info]crysiana, 2004-10-11 03:58 am UTC
Re: good question - [info]crysiana, 2004-10-11 04:01 am UTC

[info]sajasma
2004-10-11 02:25 am UTC (link)
Wait...she's trying to get her Hoot/Blackburn series published as original fiction?

Er.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]msilverstar, 2004-10-12 01:23 am UTC


 
   
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