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Marysia ([info]chaos_seahorse) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2004-11-06 00:12:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current music:Therion - Wine of Aluquah

D&D/Star Wars Wank
Although this thread is still fairly civil right now, the subject itself strikes me as pretty whiny and wanky, and I think it's worth keeping an eye on in any case.

A thread is created on the D&D forums complaining about "oriental crap" in D&D sourcebooks. Many people seem to believe that D&D should be entirely western-based, while others like the idea of adding Asian elements. Others point out that nobody's forcing anyone to use these ideas in campaigns if they don't want to, but apparently even having pages taken up by discussions of non-Western materials is somehow offensive.

Also, discussion about whether or not Star Wars has Asian influences.

A few quotes:
"Well, I am sorta going agree with the OP's rant here. Not because the "oriental stuff" is worthless, no. It's not. It's because i am tired of reading all the Anime' boys and self-appointed experts who WILL constanly whine and complain about anything slightly oriental."

"they should make seperate books for oriental garbage or just make oriental web enhancements."

"That's one problem with oriental stuff, you can't pronounce anything without having a tumor. I'm exagerating but what the heck is a giru and gimu for example?"

Attempt at sarcasm:
"I am the end all and be all of DnD players. nothing should be in the game that doesn't bend to my elitist tendencies!"

And retaliation:
"nice attempt at seeming snide and intelligent while attempting to point out others prejudices and short-sightedness."

The third page is where the potential for actual wank seems to be developing:
"I'm not insulted.

I'm actually amazed at how touchy people on these boards are.

Everyone always seems to think that everyone else is insulting them.

I'm merely commenting on the issue."

"This whole thread is one big exercise in "I know more about medieval culture than you do becuase I spent my lonely Friday evening reading a book about Norse mythology."



(Post a new comment)


[info]dana
2004-11-06 02:14 pm UTC (link)
Granted, I'm in no way a huge Star Wars fan but I thought that the Jedi were based on the honour and discipline of the samurai. That Lucas was a huge fan of the old Japanese samurai films and that's where he got his ideas and he's said that somewhere.

And the concept of the Force, if that's not based on Taoism or something similar I don't know what is, it's certainly not something that comes from an American Western - although I do know there are some Nordic mythological influences (the father being the enemy, having to kill the father, blah, blah blah), but I can still pick up that the Jedi are a very romantic idealised Asian warrior sect, master and apprentice, yes, the entire structure of the Jedi.

I don't know how that could be considered a bad thing, I love that stuff, Jedi are pretty cool. Oh, yes, also,wank is bad ;)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]dana
2004-11-06 02:20 pm UTC (link)
OK, now I go read it, I see that someone gets the force being taoist. Cool, I totally picked up on that when I watched Star Wars, "OMG, Lucas ripped it off from the Tao Te Ching, you bastard" *cough* ;) There are worst ways to get into eastern philosophy.

Oh yes, once again, tsk, tsk, tsk. Wanks is very bad ;)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sukeban
2004-11-06 09:35 pm UTC (link)
Well, as you said the Force is roughly equivalent to the Tao and the flow of the Qi; "jedi" comes from "jidai eiga" (Japanese period pictures, i.e. the ones with samurai) and George Lucas has acknowledged that the inspiration for SW IV came from Akira Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress. All of this is pretty much mainstream by now.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2004-11-06 10:32 pm UTC (link)
I started taking kendo over the summer, and recently when I've watched Star Wars I've seen kendo moves in the lightsaber battles. So, yeah, that alone is proof of Asian influences in Star Wars, and it just goes on from there - Jedi are like Samurai, the Force has elements of Zen and Tao, etc...

(And the names, come on. Obi-Wan? Yeah.)

[shinjokitty @ lj]

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]ashenmote
2004-11-06 02:44 pm UTC (link)
Reading D&D forums online or in Dragon is so soothing and enjoyable. People arguing about I-don't-know-what-it-is-or-why-I-should-care always have this effect on me.

they should make seperate books for oriental garbage.

That's what they did when I was your age, young padawan. Didn't sell, though. *giggles*

And I find it amazing how, if I make a icon that seems just not applicable on anything, the appropriate wank comes along the next moment.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


kroki_refur
2004-11-06 03:29 pm UTC (link)
And I find it amazing how, if I make a icon that seems just not applicable on anything, the appropriate wank comes along the next moment.

But you see, if you don't use your Breakfast Club icons I can't tell who you are without reading your username. That is Just No Good.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ashenmote, 2004-11-06 03:43 pm UTC

kroki_refur
2004-11-06 03:31 pm UTC (link)
"This whole thread is one big exercise in "I know more about medieval culture than you do becuase I spent my lonely Friday evening reading a book about Norse mythology."

Mmmm, Norse mythology wank.. my favourite. Unfortunately, I can't find any references to Odin in the thread... *fetches magnifying glass*

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]crysiana
2004-11-06 11:13 pm UTC (link)
Oh, good. I might have had to go harm people. Which is to say, I might have had to say, "Step off my religion, bitch," but there you go.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]eclair
2004-11-06 04:03 pm UTC (link)
"This whole thread is one big exercise in "I know more about medieval culture than you do becuase I spent my lonely Friday evening reading a book about Norse mythology."

Why do you opress us so?!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sesana
2004-11-08 07:23 am UTC (link)
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]kadath
2004-11-06 06:17 pm UTC (link)
Does anything else bring wank quite as sad as D&D does? Goddammit, you functionally-illiterate fanboys, quit making it so people look at me funny when they find out I play D&D.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go level up my half-dragon drow sorceror/fighter.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]mistressrenet
2004-11-06 11:11 pm UTC (link)
Oh, thank God, I thought I was the only one going, "but...what's this stuff about the wild mages?"

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2004-11-08 05:14 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2004-11-06 06:40 pm UTC (link)
OMFG. If they said "oriental" one more time I might have to kill them all. And they didn't even capitalize it! Just because the source material for D&D is the very western Tolkien doesn't mean Asian influences are of Teh Devil. And it's ASIAN, FUCKERS! NOT ORIENTAL! I AM NOT A CARPET!

...oh dear. *looks embarrassed and cleans up*

eisoj5 (http://www.livejournal.com/users/eisoj5) on lj

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]wankprophet
2004-11-06 07:04 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, do clean up...you got disOriented and splooged all over yourself the Oriental rug.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]megmurry
2004-11-06 07:55 pm UTC (link)
That's what happens when they call the sourcebook "Oriental Adventures", though.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2004-11-06 09:19 pm UTC (link)
OMFG. If they said "oriental" one more time I might have to kill them all.

YES. Thank you!

As someone who is majoring in Asian Studies, I have come to hate that word with a passion. Aside from the fact that these days the only way it's used is for carpets, there's also the connotation of racism that it carries. In my understanding, it is somewhat like calling black people "negros" (although depending on *where* you're referring to, I'd say that in some places it would be on the scale of "nigger").

Of course, in this case I guess the word fits, since they are being racist pricks. Them calling it "Asian garbage" would not be much less offensive to me.

Now I'm off to go beat my head against the wall repeatedly at the stupidity rampant in our world.

-ADR

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2004-11-06 11:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2004-11-07 04:18 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-11-07 04:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pokecheck, 2004-11-07 10:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pokecheck, 2004-11-07 10:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2004-11-08 03:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pokecheck, 2004-11-08 11:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2004-11-08 11:12 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-11-08 07:45 am UTC
(no subject) - layne, 2004-11-09 03:24 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-11-09 07:35 am UTC

[info]iczer6
2004-11-06 09:44 pm UTC (link)
I'll help you hide the bodies, and I'm a self-admitted dorky anime fangirl.


Icz

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]dana
2004-11-07 12:01 am UTC (link)
Consistent though, if they think the 'oriental' influence in D&D gaming is teh bad then they probably have a similar world view as those in the British Empire with those wicked 'orientals'.

Can't trust them you know, those weird eastern religions are gonna send us all to hell.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pokecheck, 2004-11-07 10:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2004-11-08 01:22 am UTC

[info]mael
2004-11-07 02:15 am UTC (link)
I dunno. I mean, it might just be because I've never lived outside of Italy so I had no idea the word "oriental" carried negative connotations but, as ADR said, I think the racist crap would have been present whether or not they used "Asian" instead of "Oriental".

Again, this is me who had NO idea it was considered not!PC. We italians use both "asiatico" (asian) and "orientale" (oriental) and they both carry the same emotional baggage. We call westerners "occidentali", after all.

Sure, I thought its use in the english language was mostly literary but... how did it pick up all the negative shite?

*curious*


(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-11-07 05:07 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-11-08 07:10 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2004-11-07 04:24 am UTC (link)
Dear god thank you. I keep picturing carpets milling about with swords and fighting dragons, and I got very confused.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]capn_triangle, 2004-11-08 09:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]slackerbitch, 2004-11-08 11:46 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2004-11-08 04:47 pm UTC

[info]majinkarp
2004-11-06 08:55 pm UTC (link)
Star Wars has no Asian influences? I suppose Lucas made up the name "Padme" himself then.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]cleolinda
2004-11-06 10:00 pm UTC (link)
"Obi-Wan" is totally a Spanish name. Didn't you know?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cairea, 2004-11-06 11:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-11-07 01:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cairea, 2004-11-07 01:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pokecheck, 2004-11-07 10:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wereleggo, 2004-11-07 03:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2004-11-08 03:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]baskinglizard, 2004-11-07 05:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2004-11-08 02:48 am UTC

[info]xero_sky
2004-11-07 08:13 am UTC (link)
"I know more about medieval culture than you do becuase I spent my lonely Friday evening reading a book about Norse mythology."

Umm, wouldn't that be a true statement, generally speaking?

(Other than the whole Norse religions being largely replaced by Christianity by the medieval period thing, that is. But let us not split hairs.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Putting on my tweedy academic face - [info]valarltd, 2004-11-08 08:16 am UTC
Re: Putting on my tweedy academic face - [info]xero_sky, 2004-11-08 08:30 am UTC
Everyone's a little bit rascist...
[info]peejee
2004-11-07 10:43 pm UTC (link)
To quote Avenue Q

Brain buddy, where've you been?
The term is "asian american!"

I know you were not intending to be
But calling me oriental - offensive to me!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Everyone's a little bit rascist... - [info]back_button, 2004-11-09 01:06 am UTC

[info]capn_triangle
2004-11-08 09:40 am UTC (link)
Oh, The Wank, It Hurts!

Speaking as a low-level Thief whose party bested a samurai and divided the booty, and who had no idea what a Tanto was, except that the weird-looking dagger that was his share did an extra point of damage...

"Oriental crap" in D&D is okay by me!

(Reply to this)


 
   
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