Who knew LOTR fans could get any crazier? Over evolution?
At RingQuest, a LOTR forum, there is a debate thread. Well Elbereth Took, makes a post stating seventeen facts that prove evolution is wrong! GASP! Most of the facts are a bit stupid, in my opinon. Anyway, people reply and well debate.

Elbereth Took retaliates!

what i am trying to prove to ya all is that evolution is NOT a fact. does ANYONE agree with me about that??

second, i DO understand evolution. if I am ignorant about something, will you please tell me WHAT I am being ignorant about instead of just saying "I have no grasp on it". what is "it"?

third, everything has a beginning. you were born. your mom and dad were both born. EVERYTHING in this life we know has a beginning. why wouldn't everything everything ANYTIME have a beginning also?

fourth: as for the peppered moths, that was a perfect example of MICROEVOLUTION. because of the growth of factories in London, the amount of soot on buildings and trees grew too. when one moth was born with peppered wings, it was able to survive better than the other ones cuz it camaflouged better. Thus that helpful trait was passed down to its children etcetera. the point is, the moth did NOT turn into a butterly. it stayed a MOTH. PLEASE give me an example of where one species changed into another species through mutations. THANK YOU to the person who can find that!!

fifth: "genetic info contained in every cell of the our bodies is about the same as a library with 4000 books. the probability that mutations and natural selection produced this vast amount info even if matter and life somehow arose, is essentially zero. It would analagous to continuing the following procedure utnil 4000 books have been produced.
a)start with a meaningful phrase
b)retype the phrase but make some errors and insert some additional letters
c)examine the new phrase to see if it is meaningful
d) if it is, replace the orginal phrase with it.
e) return to step B
to accumulate 4000 books of meaningful information, this procedure would have to produce the equivalant of far more than 10 to the 40000th power animal offspring. (just to begin to understand how large that number is, realize that the visible universe has less than 10 to the 80th power atoms it it.)"

sixth: "techniques are not available for measuring the degree of similarity between forms of life. These genetic distances are calculated by taking a specific protein and examining the sequence of its components. the fewer changes required to convert a protein of another organism into the corresponding protien of another organism, supposedly the closer the relationship. similar comparisons can now be made between the genetic material (DNA and RNA) of diff. organisms. the results of these studies seriously contradict the theory of evolution. there is not a TRACE of evidence at the molecular level for the traditional evolutionary series: simple sea life--fish--amphibians--reptiles--mammals. each category of organism appears to be almost equally isolated. one computerbased study, using cytochrome C, a protein used in energy production, comparted 47 different forms of life. if evolution happened, this study should have found that for example, the rattlesnake was most closely related to other reptiles. Instead, based on this one protein, the rattlesnake was most similar to man." all the studies contradict the fact that monkeys and men should be the closest. wrong.

seven: please don't treat me like i'm dumb or stupid. i DO know ppl who would call themselves Christians who also believe in evolution. i'm not a sixth grader. so don't treat me like one. as a Christian also, i have problems with ppl who believe that, because if you are Christian you have to believe the Bible as literally true... but that's another debate.

eight: why aren't humans evolving to something higher? why haven't we had any mutations yet that have began to transform us into a higher species? if evolution is true, why aren't there many organisms who are in the process of evolution RIGHT NOW? and why can't we find any proof of that mutation/natural selection process every happening?

to me, there are way too many problems and questions about evolution.

She is once again treated like the idget she is, and replies. The funniest part is this little ditty.

one more thing about LANGUAGE. I KNOW you need to be taught language so that you can speak it. Perhin gragne... dang i can't remember your name sorry!... but you are proving my POINT! how did language START? was in just "ingrained" in the very first cell or what? if it has to be taught, how did it start when there was never anyone to teach?

*headdesk*

Later Moinkers asks for everyone to read November's issue of National Geocraphic,as it had an aritcle about evolution in it. A few people read it, and them ET posts saying "one thing I'm having some trouble believing is that ya all are the SAME ppl who in the agnosticism post said "there is no truth", "I could be born as a cow again, i could go to heaven, i could turn back into dirt, we just can't know". How do you KNOW for such a FACT that evolution is right? And if evolution is right, then there IS no god this world is just chemicals.", not realizing that not everyone is agnostic.


ET then makes a post, writing "i'm saying you all are racist" which was a 'typo'. *sporfles*

People get pissed off! SHOCK!

Moinkers:That's it. I'm done here. I am not and have never been racist in any way, and if you're going to start throwing around accusations like which are absolutely unfounded, I'm through. Have a nice bigotted, closed-minded life.

Then ET, posts saying it was a typo!

I DID NOT MEAN TO CALL YOU ALL RACIST!! i swear, it was a typo! you know typing that much can make you make some mistakes.
i said, "i'm saying that you all are racist, i'm just pointing out that what Rosie said and what evolution implies IS racist--because it's the survival of the fittest, and WHO is the fittest? well, Darwin believed it was the Caucasians."
I meant to put a "not" in between "i'm" and "saying". swear! if you read after the comma, the sentence makes a lot more sense with a "not" in there!!!
no, i don't believe that you're all racist!!!!!!!!!!!!

Poor little exclamation mark. *cries for it*

After a little more debate, ET says she's leaving! Oh, noes!

that's it. i'm leaving. actually, Moinkers, i am reading the national geo. article right now.
you don't have to bash me. this is debate, NOT: hey everybody let's jump Elbereth took. all your remarks about how fundamentalist Christians should leave their beliefs at home, how you think you can predict what i can say, how you think i'll say "morality is racist" ??? and everything else--that's it. just cuz of a little typo you call me closeminded bigot. no apology. i know how it goes. THAT'S IT.
fundamentalilist Christians should go home, huh? well, just cuz i'm leaving doesn't mean i'm going home. i carry my beliefs with me everywhere i go. nobody can suppress them. if i told you all go "go home" with your evolutionist beliefs you would probably tell me i'm a closeminded bigot and you'd kick me off the forum for not "tolerating others opinions". but if you say that I should go home--you all just gang up on me.
EVOLUTION IS JUST AS MUCH A RELIGION AS CREATIONISM.

But she comes back!

She later blows up about it being all right for the ancient Aztecs to sacrafice to thier gods.

Wow. I can't believe what you just said. THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE RIGHT. SACRIFICING HUMAN BEINGS HAS BEEN CONSIDERED NORMAL AND PERFECTLY OK, AND IN THOSE SOCIETIES, IT WAS.
so it was totally ok for the Aztecs to slaughter hundreds of innocent captives and gouge out their hearts or toss young girls into wells and let them drown just because they thought they needed to appease their gods. That was OK????

She still goes against the other people's views,ignores a request not to write in all capatls for a dyslexic person,and gives her excuse for bad grammar!

The best excuse yet: I'm a black girl! You want me to have perfect Queen's English? I'm sorry, I ain't gonna promise you I won't ever say "ain't" again in this post. I'll *try* my hardest to refrain.

Then Perhin, quits the thread and basically calls ET an idiot.

"GAH! I'm quiting this thread because of your lack of the capability to listen to the other side and obviously only paying attention to half of last week's science lesson."

And that's all for now...It should get more wanky when ET replies.

ETA: Another person quits debating, and to most of the replies to ET's latest post she is answered with "This has nothing to do with evolution. Please start a new thread is you wish to discuss further".