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St. Ignatius of Antioch ([info]ignatius) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2005-01-05 18:39:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Grouchy
Entry tags:fandom: buffy the vampire slayer

Wank Expansion
When we last left the Buffy/Angel fandom, they were having fun with an anonymous lust meme, and Jennyo was asking “Why?” Things have kinda escalated since then. Jennyo posted a rant which I don’t know how to summarize, because it’s all over the place. The two main points: queer play (hugging, smooching, boob-squeezing, ectra) in virtual space can be bad, since it turns queerness into a spectacle and makes it an Other, something done to be cool; also, fandom has a feminism problem, especially seen in a “certain set of boyslashers,” who put out work with “clearly anti-woman attitudes.”

Swmbo responds, pissed that someone’s questioning the way she and her friends express themselves.

Jane Davitt also takes offence, defending her use of *hugs*, and sniping about the “appallingly written screeds” these “people who pride themselves, for no adequare reason that I can see, on being intellectuals” are coming up with.

In the meantime, Jennyo grumbles about the “anti-intellectual disingeunity of fandom,” and other people grumble that she’s usurping the term intellectual.

Much fun is had in all the comments. If by “fun” you mean snippy insults, “word”-ing of snippy insults, meta on top of meta, mentions of fandom_wank, and a lot of poor-us-vs-mean-them whining. But this is fandom_wank, so you probably do.



(Post a new comment)

it gets better
(Anonymous)
2005-01-06 06:33 am UTC (link)
Check out the follow-up, Jennyo's fandom reading comprehension quiz, just so's y'all can test whether you're idjits or not: http://www.livejournal.com/users/jennyo/407014.html

My favorite part? The equally condescending comment from our old friend Sarah T. (harriet_spy) and the comparison Jennyo draws between "the bullies" who disagree with her and George Bush.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: it gets better
[info]thebratqueen
2005-01-06 06:52 am UTC (link)
[reads quiz]

Hmm. You know, I think I read just fine. I was able to comprehend right away that JennyO is absolutely starved for attention.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: it gets better - (Anonymous), 2005-01-06 10:06 am UTC
Re: it gets better - [info]thebratqueen, 2005-01-06 07:40 pm UTC
Re: it gets better - [info]mpoetess, 2005-01-06 06:01 pm UTC
Re: it gets better - (Anonymous), 2005-01-06 06:14 pm UTC
Re: it gets better - [info]thebratqueen, 2005-01-06 06:52 pm UTC
Re: it gets better - [info]mpoetess, 2005-01-06 08:15 pm UTC
Re: it gets better - [info]thebratqueen, 2005-01-06 08:27 pm UTC
Re: it gets better - [info]sockkpuppett, 2005-01-07 06:15 am UTC
Re: it gets better - [info]thebratqueen, 2005-01-07 06:17 am UTC
Re: it gets better - [info]sockkpuppett, 2005-01-07 06:20 am UTC
Re: it gets better
[info]andsoyoudied
2005-01-07 09:50 am UTC (link)
Me, I find harriet_spy's position deeply depressing - couldn't be that I understand JennyO's position perfectly and still disagree, it's got to be my untrained unintellectualism and downright stupidity that drive me to disagreement. Are you expressing opinions because you think they're a point of fannish interest and want to hear other people's honest feedback or are you just here to prove that you're the Bitter Queen of all fannish things you survey?

Isn't that like, the opposite of what intellectualism is supposed to be about?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: it gets better - [info]ingrid, 2005-01-07 03:28 pm UTC
Re: it gets better - [info]inalasahl, 2005-01-09 02:58 am UTC

[info]rachelmap
2005-01-06 07:04 am UTC (link)
Pffft. What a lot of fuss over something so easy to ignore.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shatfat, 2005-01-07 03:19 am UTC

[info]deeablo
2005-01-06 07:21 am UTC (link)
Yawn. Really. Just, yawn. It's so masturbatory... in a completely boring and not-good way.

(Reply to this)


[info]aycelcus
2005-01-06 07:52 am UTC (link)
Anyone else notice a trend in that little fandom comprehension quiz? (although it can't really be a trend when there's only two items...)

Every. Single. Right. Answer. Was "C".

I can almost hear her little fannish voice screaming at me from behind that little letter: "C? See? See! I am the ultimate LJ user, fair and balanced and you all suck and I'm great! I took Psychology in College yay!"

She wants so badly to be seen as this paragon of fen.

I'd *boobslap* her wanky ass... but that would probably mean I was trying to be all cool and lesbian. And I like Yaoi, so I'm also responsible for the downfall of modern feminism and the regression of society back to the times when women were chattel and not allowed to vote or own property or go on the internet and omg I am a traitor to my sex how dare i?

I am teh evil. *sobs*

(Reply to this)

from JennyO's reading comprehension quiz
(Anonymous)
2005-01-06 08:12 am UTC (link)
If I say in my LiveJournal, "I am curious about and maybe a little turned off by Little Timmy's appropriation of black culture for play," which of the following am I actually saying?

Wow, that is so different in tone and content from her original, not-too-coherent rant.

Sure, you can glean something similar to her chosen quiz answer out of her rant, but she says a lot of other things in it too, as well as says some things that can fairly be interpreted as offensive.

If she doesn't want people to emotionally misinterpret what she's saying, she should probably dial back her own emotion in what she's saying, and also maybe decide on what point she wants to express. And then express it clearly. And do so in the rant itself! And not in the reading comprehension quiz she posts later.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: from JennyO's reading comprehension quiz - (Anonymous), 2005-01-06 08:47 pm UTC
*Rolls eyes*
[info]iczer6
2005-01-06 08:39 am UTC (link)
Mean Evil Jen still thinks reading 95% boyslash and no femslash ever is a symptom of some deeper issue involving fandom and their perception of female sexuality,

Or, here's a thought, maybe Kimmy [GASP] isn't turned on by femmeslash but enjoys being silly with her friends.

Revolutionary I know but I think I'm on to something.


Icz

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: *Rolls eyes* - [info]rachelmap, 2005-01-06 09:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]morganya, 2005-01-06 10:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ignatius, 2005-01-06 11:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]morganya, 2005-01-06 08:38 pm UTC
Hi, I'm a Lesbian and I don't like Femmeslash - [info]shatfat, 2005-01-07 03:26 am UTC
Re: Hi, I'm a Lesbian and I don't like Femmeslash - [info]thebratqueen, 2005-01-07 04:51 am UTC
Re: Hi, I'm a Lesbian and I don't like Femmeslash - [info]kate74, 2005-01-08 02:37 pm UTC
Re: Hi, I'm a Lesbian and I don't like Femmeslash - [info]thebratqueen, 2005-01-08 06:42 pm UTC
Re: Hi, I'm a Lesbian and I don't like Femmeslash - [info]kate74, 2005-01-09 12:09 am UTC
Re: *Rolls eyes* - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-01-06 03:26 pm UTC
Re: *Rolls eyes* - [info]kerikeri, 2005-01-06 11:00 pm UTC

[info]deadlettero
2005-01-06 10:41 am UTC (link)
Um... what is up with Jenny O? Has she always been the queen of pseudo-intellectualism, or was it a slow descent into the world of "If you don't agree withe me then you can't comprehend simple ideas!"

*Dante voice* I think I hate her.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-06 12:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-01-07 01:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thebratqueen, 2005-01-06 07:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]deadlettero, 2005-01-07 04:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thebratqueen, 2005-01-07 04:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cel, 2005-01-07 11:58 pm UTC

[info]prettyveela
2005-01-06 11:46 am UTC (link)
Down with Angel and Buffy!

It's all about Spuffy bitches!

*waves Spuffy flag*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-06 12:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]prettyveela, 2005-01-06 01:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2005-01-06 01:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]andsoyoudied, 2005-01-06 02:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kben, 2005-01-09 04:35 am UTC

[info]kristenk2
2005-01-06 03:02 pm UTC (link)
My goodness, that's a lotta words just to say you don't like boobie jokes.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-01-06 03:42 pm UTC

[info]firebad
2005-01-06 04:00 pm UTC (link)
I honestly tried to read that, but then came the involuntary sleeping.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]baskinglizard, 2005-01-06 11:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]firebad, 2005-01-07 01:09 am UTC

[info]funwithrage
2005-01-06 04:09 pm UTC (link)
So if I think that women in Buffy--especially post-S6 Buffy--do kinda suck, this makes me a horrible misogynist?


I can live with that. I mean, hell, I've also kissed other girls at parties, and am thus clearly this woman's idea of Satan Incarnate as it is. Also, maybe it's just being at Liberal University X too long, but the terms "white privilege" and "straight privilege" and "heteronormative" have ceased to be things I can take at all seriously.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-06 04:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]msmanna, 2005-01-06 04:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]charmian, 2005-01-07 12:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]msmanna, 2005-01-07 11:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2005-01-08 03:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-01-07 05:36 am UTC
sheep, sheep, we're all sheep she says!
(Anonymous)
2005-01-06 04:22 pm UTC (link)
Getting inside the heads of the sheep

Oh jesus effin christos, jennyo and her sheep again? What, did her mommy not breastfeed her as a child? Is that why we're exposed to these weekly rants about her ambiguity towards those of us with VAGINAS? She gets her spleen so worked up about how grown women choose to interact with each other, and why she can't just shout out orders to fandom from her Pussy Pink tower and command the "sheep masses" to obey. It only gets interesting when her fellow sticky-fingered BIGBRAINMETA-spewing pals chime in. Heh. Destina and Harrietspy. All we need is Te to chime in (in total pseudo-smartz agreement, naturally) and it would be spooge the likes of even God has not seen. No, not even in Sodom!

As a point of interest, did you know that sheep vagina is the closest thing to the feel and temperature of a human one?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: sheep, sheep, we're all sheep she says! - [info]msmanna, 2005-01-06 04:37 pm UTC
Re: sheep, sheep, we're all sheep she says! - [info]senor_pinata, 2005-01-06 05:56 pm UTC
Re: sheep, sheep, we're all sheep she says! - (Anonymous), 2005-01-06 06:20 pm UTC
Re: sheep, sheep, we're all sheep she says! - (Anonymous), 2005-01-06 10:41 pm UTC
Re: sheep, sheep, we're all sheep she says! - (Anonymous), 2005-01-06 11:27 pm UTC

[info]captainecchi
2005-01-06 05:21 pm UTC (link)
My response to Jennyo's entire rant is "Sweet Jesus, put down the Foucault and the Judith Butler before you hurt somebody." I, too, have a liberal arts education. I do, was forced to watch pr0n in class in the name of education. I could wank JUST LIKE YOU. Nobody is impressed by your pseudo-intellectual posturing that only serves to rationalize bias as deeply felt and as deeply ingrained as any your fellow fen may have.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nights_mistress, 2005-01-06 10:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]captainecchi, 2005-01-06 10:47 pm UTC

[info]pyratejenni
2005-01-06 05:34 pm UTC (link)
She's got some good points buried under all the verbiage. I've run across m/m slash writers who go beyond "femslash doesn't do anything for me" to "that is SOOOOOO GROSSSS! IT'S WRONG!" and can't see the hypocracy. And there was that wank a few months back about how hetero-frottage wouldn't be allowed in some frottage community on LJ because hets had plenty of space elsewhere for their "normal" sex.

But.. well. Damn, they're good and buried.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

what is up with the slash vs het thing? - [info]shatfat, 2005-01-07 03:35 am UTC
Re: what is up with the slash vs het thing? - [info]mortifyd, 2005-01-07 04:07 am UTC
Re: what is up with the slash vs het thing? - (Anonymous), 2005-01-18 08:16 am UTC
Re: what is up with the slash vs het thing? - [info]mortifyd, 2005-01-18 08:26 am UTC

[info]ichigatsu
2005-01-06 05:36 pm UTC (link)
I confused her with the girl from a few wanks further down. Probably because Jenny is the boring and Sarah's crazy muse ranting makes me groan O.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-01-07 05:39 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-07 11:33 am UTC

[info]dawnydiesel
2005-01-06 09:55 pm UTC (link)
Ok, this chick obviously is one of those people that talks just to hear her own voice.

I really have nothing to say but how fucking annoying. Just because one can spell intellectual doesn't mean they are.

(Reply to this)


[info]charmian
2005-01-07 12:14 am UTC (link)
I just don't get why she's confused by people who like m/m and don't really care much for f/f. If they were all "OMG lesbians are scary!!!" I would agree that they were anti-gay, but if they're just not reading femmeslash while not denouncing it, what is the problem? Okay, if they are actually lesbians themselves who don't like f/f, I would say that is strange, the same way I think het women (or men for that matter) who think het is icky are weird, but who knows what their issue really is? But it could possibly, for some people, be motivated by, er....being sexually interested in men much more than women? And thus leading to a tendency to read m/m more than f/f?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2005-01-07 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]charmian, 2005-01-07 01:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2005-01-07 01:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]charmian, 2005-01-07 01:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2005-01-07 01:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]charmian, 2005-01-07 01:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]msmanna, 2005-01-07 03:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thebratqueen, 2005-01-07 05:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]shatfat, 2005-01-07 03:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]doyle, 2005-01-07 04:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2005-01-07 05:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]doyle, 2005-01-07 05:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2005-01-07 05:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2005-01-07 05:46 pm UTC

[info]ivyincubus
2005-01-07 03:04 am UTC (link)
Are you that boozy sorority girl in the dance club getting up on her best friend so the hot guy will be the filling in your sandwich?"

No, actually, I'm the fannish sorority girl too busy planning fundraisers and maintaining my GPA to get boozy in a club. Maybe if you want people to stop subverting your culture you should stop doing it to other people.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]msmanna, 2005-01-07 03:28 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-01-07 03:32 am UTC (link)
Wait, so same-sex hugs are queer? News to me, my straight friends, my mother, and everyone I've ever hugged platonically.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]shatfat, 2005-01-07 03:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]loony666, 2005-01-07 07:32 am UTC

cicer
2005-01-07 05:06 am UTC (link)
I rolled my eyes so hard I think I hurt myself. I'm gagging on the pseudo-intellectual wank over here, Jenny. Please shut the fuck up!

I'm a straight woman. I love slash, very occasionally like het, and have a complete disinterest in femslash. This doesn't mean I have some kind of repressed misogynistic urges, it just means that I'm a het woman, so I like cock. I don't read f/f because there's no cock. I read a little het because there is cock there, but why settle for a cock and a vagina, when I can have two cocks?

That? Is the reason I like slash. Period.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-07 03:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nzraya, 2005-01-14 10:12 am UTC

[info]pipssister
2005-01-07 04:51 pm UTC (link)
I'd actually agree that SOME slash and yaoi writers are very anti-woman. And it really bothers me when I have to read about Evil!Whiny!Bitchy!Buffy before I enjoy the porn.

But what the FUCK does that have to do with OL hugs? @_@

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2005-01-07 08:35 pm UTC (link)
Ultimately, the point here is, "okay, I don't think you mean anything mean by squeezing your writing partner's boobs in virtual space. But consider the ramifications of your queer play in a space where practicing queers have been told and even kind of feel is a safe space?"

...so, you flirted with a chick online, and she turned out to be straight? Is that what this is about?

Sometimes the faux-lesbian shit, especially given there are A) people who hook up via LJ, and B) lots of actual lesbians in fandom, is kind of exoticizing gayness.

Ah. Yup. You got turned down.
Sorry. It happens. Deal.

(Reply to this)


[info]panthea
2005-01-08 01:43 am UTC (link)
But consider the ramifications of your queer play in a space where practicing queers have been told and even kind of feel is a safe space?

This may just be me, but I always thought the "ramifications of queer play in a safe space" would be, y'know, minimal, because it is a SAFE FUCKING SPACE. Hence, we can all act as gay as we wanna act, without getting either beaten up or slapped on the knuckles by the Gay Police. One would hope.

Or is it "safe space if you can flash your lesbo credentials, otherwise you're OMG OPPRESSING MEEEE"?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-01-09 05:55 am UTC

 
   
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