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Sarky (![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} sarky) wrote in ![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/community.gif){kind=small} fandom_wank,@ 2005-01-14 16:39:00 |
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Jane Austen is spinning in her grave
And I bet you thought that the Jane Austen fandom would be endlessly polite...
Hyacinth Gardens is a community dedicated to racier fanfics based on Jane Austen's novels and the adaptations thereof and it seems to be rather prone to wank (unlike some other communities in the fandom). Perhaps this is because HG attracts some of the more fatuous and self-absorbed authors who like to think of themselves as famous and above criticism.
One of the peculiarities of the fandom is that it is considered bad form to publicly criticise an author. Any feedback given must be positive, thus stifling any form of constructive criticism and creating a vacuum where authors' egos can run rampant.
Someone starts a thread about what it is that attracts readers to certain stories. The answers are predictable - good plot, great characters etc. Someone makes the innocent remark that sex scenes that are badly written are a turn off.
So far, so normal.
Then Abigail R starts a new thread in which she bashes anyone who dares say that a sex scene might be badly written.
This is long and a bit of a rant, but if having sex scenes included in stories is important to you, you might want to read through it.
Just recently, in response to some comments that have been posted at HG, I've been feeling uncomfortable about having sex scenes I've written posted. I wasn't going to say anything about it, because I thought maybe I was being too sensitive or reading things that weren't there into what people were saying. Today I got an unsolicited email from another HG writer who was having similar sentiments, feeling doubt about whether she wanted to put a planned sex scene in her story given recent comments about sex scenes being too explicit and sometimes badly written. Since I'm much better about speaking up on someone else's behalf than on my own (and because I want to read her sex scene, because she writes good ones), I decided to say something, at the risk of offending some of the people involved.
Writing and posting sex scenes is taking a huge risk for most writers. It makes us feel exposed and embarrassed. Many of us would be in trouble if our employers/friends/family found out about them. Sometimes we're attacked on-line for writing them. Sure, writing about sex is also an empowering feminist statement about reclaiming our sexuality, but apart from that, it's scary as hell. For me, it's crucial to have an accepting and supportive environment if I'm going to post a sex scene.
Unfortunately, there have been some threads at HG recently that have made it feel less safe and supportive to me. It doesn't take a lot to change the atmosphere, just a few comments making implicit literary judgments on writers who include sex scenes, suggesting it is better or more effective not to include graphic detail. I don't have any problem if someone tells me they personally don't like sex scenes, though I'll tell them not to read my stories. I do have a problem when it's implied that my writing is somehow worse or less valuable for having them. I expect to run into such comments elsewhere, but I don't expect them at HG. And from a couple of posts by readers in these threads, I inferred that the comments were making some readers feel uncomfortable about admitting to liking sex scenes.
And then there was discussion of how awful bad sex scenes are, and let me tell you, it's not easy to tell if your own sex scene is bad or not, and if you feel like other people are out there sitting in judgment, it isn't conducive to making you want to post.
One of the odd things about writing is that for many of us, one critical comment can outweigh a hundred positive ones. Personally, I think that it's a vocal minority that is expressing the above sentiments, but I suggest that the less vocal people who like sex scenes or think they can be an integral part of a story might want to speak up and say so if they want writers to continue taking those risks. If two experienced HG writers are independently feeling this way, there are others out there feeling it too, and I can't imagine what new writers would feel.
A disclaimer: I do not claim to speak for all writers. Some, I'm sure, would disagree with what I have written, so let's not bother to have that fight, okay? Also, I am speaking as a writer and a reader, not as a moderator, and my views do not necessarily reflect the views of the HG staff.
And all hell breaks loose...
...Do you wish to chill these people's desire to share their opinions? The thread in question was asking why people read what they read. Not one poster said anything about wishing any author would not post sex scenes. Not one. There were some tongue in cheek statements about bad sex scenes, but there were more, many more, statements about how much most readers here enjoy them. Is the message to be gleaned here that if you don't agree with us, keep your mouth shut?...
...Regarding opinions that say stories are better off without them, um, all I say to that end is that I run an ADULT Janite website...
...I very much understand how sensitive authors can be - I've written a sex scene or two in my time, but never posted because I wasn't happy with them and couldn't face other peoples' opinions. But I think I would want to know what kinds of things about sex scenes, and other aspects of ff for that matter, appeal to readers or not, if only so that I improve my own...
...Everyone has to start somewhere in writing. The prospect of posting your work on a fairly public forum is daunting and frightening. If you want constructive criticism of your work, then find someone you trust and work with them PRIVATELY. Abigail is right that a single negative comment can make more impact than a bunch of positive ones. There is strong research in psych and economics that show that the value of negative events looms larger than that of a positive event. Beyond the pedantic, I don't think that many people realize how damming an offhand negative remark can be - it's magnified because it appears often without qualification and because it's in hard cold words for everyone to see. It's bad enough when delivered privately, but in public, that sucks. When you provide constructive criticism, you have a responsibility to the author to provide it with tact and compassion, which is why it's hard to do in a public forum online and generally left to betas. If you're interested enough in a story to provide ongoing feedback, then contact the author...
And so it goes on, with protestations of love for Abigail's writing, declarations from someone else that they're never going to post again, complaints about censorship etc etc.
Jane Austen would be horrified.
And I bet you thought that the Jane Austen fandom would be endlessly polite...
Hyacinth Gardens is a community dedicated to racier fanfics based on Jane Austen's novels and the adaptations thereof and it seems to be rather prone to wank (unlike some other communities in the fandom). Perhaps this is because HG attracts some of the more fatuous and self-absorbed authors who like to think of themselves as famous and above criticism.
One of the peculiarities of the fandom is that it is considered bad form to publicly criticise an author. Any feedback given must be positive, thus stifling any form of constructive criticism and creating a vacuum where authors' egos can run rampant.
Someone starts a thread about what it is that attracts readers to certain stories. The answers are predictable - good plot, great characters etc. Someone makes the innocent remark that sex scenes that are badly written are a turn off.
So far, so normal.
Then Abigail R starts a new thread in which she bashes anyone who dares say that a sex scene might be badly written.
This is long and a bit of a rant, but if having sex scenes included in stories is important to you, you might want to read through it.
Just recently, in response to some comments that have been posted at HG, I've been feeling uncomfortable about having sex scenes I've written posted. I wasn't going to say anything about it, because I thought maybe I was being too sensitive or reading things that weren't there into what people were saying. Today I got an unsolicited email from another HG writer who was having similar sentiments, feeling doubt about whether she wanted to put a planned sex scene in her story given recent comments about sex scenes being too explicit and sometimes badly written. Since I'm much better about speaking up on someone else's behalf than on my own (and because I want to read her sex scene, because she writes good ones), I decided to say something, at the risk of offending some of the people involved.
Writing and posting sex scenes is taking a huge risk for most writers. It makes us feel exposed and embarrassed. Many of us would be in trouble if our employers/friends/family found out about them. Sometimes we're attacked on-line for writing them. Sure, writing about sex is also an empowering feminist statement about reclaiming our sexuality, but apart from that, it's scary as hell. For me, it's crucial to have an accepting and supportive environment if I'm going to post a sex scene.
Unfortunately, there have been some threads at HG recently that have made it feel less safe and supportive to me. It doesn't take a lot to change the atmosphere, just a few comments making implicit literary judgments on writers who include sex scenes, suggesting it is better or more effective not to include graphic detail. I don't have any problem if someone tells me they personally don't like sex scenes, though I'll tell them not to read my stories. I do have a problem when it's implied that my writing is somehow worse or less valuable for having them. I expect to run into such comments elsewhere, but I don't expect them at HG. And from a couple of posts by readers in these threads, I inferred that the comments were making some readers feel uncomfortable about admitting to liking sex scenes.
And then there was discussion of how awful bad sex scenes are, and let me tell you, it's not easy to tell if your own sex scene is bad or not, and if you feel like other people are out there sitting in judgment, it isn't conducive to making you want to post.
One of the odd things about writing is that for many of us, one critical comment can outweigh a hundred positive ones. Personally, I think that it's a vocal minority that is expressing the above sentiments, but I suggest that the less vocal people who like sex scenes or think they can be an integral part of a story might want to speak up and say so if they want writers to continue taking those risks. If two experienced HG writers are independently feeling this way, there are others out there feeling it too, and I can't imagine what new writers would feel.
A disclaimer: I do not claim to speak for all writers. Some, I'm sure, would disagree with what I have written, so let's not bother to have that fight, okay? Also, I am speaking as a writer and a reader, not as a moderator, and my views do not necessarily reflect the views of the HG staff.
And all hell breaks loose...
...Do you wish to chill these people's desire to share their opinions? The thread in question was asking why people read what they read. Not one poster said anything about wishing any author would not post sex scenes. Not one. There were some tongue in cheek statements about bad sex scenes, but there were more, many more, statements about how much most readers here enjoy them. Is the message to be gleaned here that if you don't agree with us, keep your mouth shut?...
...Regarding opinions that say stories are better off without them, um, all I say to that end is that I run an ADULT Janite website...
...I very much understand how sensitive authors can be - I've written a sex scene or two in my time, but never posted because I wasn't happy with them and couldn't face other peoples' opinions. But I think I would want to know what kinds of things about sex scenes, and other aspects of ff for that matter, appeal to readers or not, if only so that I improve my own...
...Everyone has to start somewhere in writing. The prospect of posting your work on a fairly public forum is daunting and frightening. If you want constructive criticism of your work, then find someone you trust and work with them PRIVATELY. Abigail is right that a single negative comment can make more impact than a bunch of positive ones. There is strong research in psych and economics that show that the value of negative events looms larger than that of a positive event. Beyond the pedantic, I don't think that many people realize how damming an offhand negative remark can be - it's magnified because it appears often without qualification and because it's in hard cold words for everyone to see. It's bad enough when delivered privately, but in public, that sucks. When you provide constructive criticism, you have a responsibility to the author to provide it with tact and compassion, which is why it's hard to do in a public forum online and generally left to betas. If you're interested enough in a story to provide ongoing feedback, then contact the author...
And so it goes on, with protestations of love for Abigail's writing, declarations from someone else that they're never going to post again, complaints about censorship etc etc.
Jane Austen would be horrified.
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