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Irony ([info]isntitironic) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2005-01-26 07:00:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Flippant

Memoirs of a Wanker
I suppose anybody who cares already knows that Zhang Zi-Yi will be starring in Memoirs of a Geisha. I don't especially care, myself, but I came across the fact on Roger Ebert's website and thought, "oh, boy, I bet there's wank." And sure enough, pop on over to IMDB, and three out of six Memoirs of a Geisha threads are wank city. The two short ones I will summarize in full.

frog123 thinks the movie will suck. WhoLead tells him/her that he/she is wrong. tammyisaacsy2k just refuses to see the movie because 'the novel was too good'.

feilung888 thinks there's nothing wrong with the casting. There is some interesting discussion of the nature of stardom. namieamurosBf841 speaks for the entirety of Japan (although I'm sure most of Japan spells better than she does), saying if you're going to cast a Chinese woman as a geisha you might as well cast a white girl. bakuyaku snarks at her. moag agrees with feilung888, but links to an article that opens bakuyaku's eyes to why Chinese women shouldn't play geisha. andrew2003wong-1 says said article is racist. ghastlywarrior says ethnicity is irrelevant to casting. kyrilona says casting is done purely with box-office draw in mind. feilung888 makes some rather irrelevant point about Bruce Lee, leading to a discussion of stage names.

Then there's the long one:

amy_lee83 quotes a dictionary definition of 'racism' and says that the casting is okay. scj4533 says it's matter of equal opportunity for Chinese actresses. movieguy23 whines with arbitrary capitalization. WhoLead points out that filming's already started and complaining won't do any good now. dumpster_cakes says that anybody griping should go make their own movie. japanophile pulls a classic conversation-stopper by discussing his Asian fetish. theninthwave attempts to be ironic with some help from the CAPSLOCK OF RAGE. amy_lee83 pokes the troll. theninthwave says they can take this outside. blackbarbie20 doesn't get it. pas_si_simple offends everybody by saying there's really no difference between Japanese and Chinese. nquintil thinks the decision was good from an acting POV but not from a minority rights one... or something. sune2 says if Mel Gibson can play a Scot, then Zhang Zi-Yi can play a geisha. The post responding to hers was deleted by a moderator. ParkAMK says all Asians look alike and she knows because she's Korean. The reply to her is deleted, but her response, telling the poster to work on his/her/its English, remains. Another deleted post. daringdestiny thinks the casting is 'crazy'. imready points out that this book about a Japanese woman was written by a European man. jumpbackjack calls 'racism!' QueenMushroom takes exception to a misspelling. namieamurosBf841 can't spell and abuses the ! key. jude_w80 says 'chill, it's just a movie'... and that's only about a third of the thread. Much more wank remains for those who wish to keep scrolling down.



(Post a new comment)


[info]mistressrenet
2005-01-26 04:36 pm UTC (link)
...so am I the only one who thought the book sucked and so don't really care?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ladybirdsleeps
2005-01-26 04:53 pm UTC (link)
Probably not. Questions of sensationalism and inaccuracy aside, it's only average story-telling, IMHO. (That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it, but it does mean I have no urge to return to it and couldn't care less if they cast the movie entirely with sock puppets.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-01-26 04:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hinata, 2005-01-26 05:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]coyote, 2005-01-26 05:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2005-01-27 12:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarracenia, 2005-01-26 06:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2005-01-27 12:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarracenia, 2005-01-27 12:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dawnswalker, 2005-01-26 08:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2005-01-26 10:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2005-01-26 11:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dawnswalker, 2005-01-27 08:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kalicephirot, 2005-01-26 09:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iscoffy, 2005-01-27 12:08 am UTC
(no subject) - kroki_refur, 2005-01-28 01:37 pm UTC

[info]sesana
2005-01-26 06:48 pm UTC (link)
The woman it was based on hated it. She later wrote her own version, because she was very unhappy with how she and her culture were portrayed. Not to say anything about the quality of either, because I haven't read them.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-26 06:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]xero_sky, 2005-01-26 07:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]littleshebear, 2005-01-26 10:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]roz_mcclure, 2005-01-27 12:12 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 04:17 am UTC

[info]penelope
2005-01-27 12:25 am UTC (link)
I'm still in book-hate mood. Yes, the book was a piece of crap, and I don't care either. And the reason I ended up reading the book in the first place, was that due to the mysterious workings of my constantly baffled mind, I managed to confuse it with Shonagon's Pillow Book that someone had recced to me.

I expect the film to be better actually. There will be pretty clothes to look at, and hopefully dramatic soundtrack to keep me awake.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aloysius, 2005-01-27 01:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]penelope, 2005-01-27 01:37 am UTC

[info]adora_spintriae
2005-01-27 12:38 am UTC (link)
Nope, I'm right there with you and your world-dominating icon.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2005-01-27 02:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-01-27 03:56 am UTC

[info]marumae
2005-01-27 07:59 pm UTC (link)
Nope.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]hinata
2005-01-26 05:55 pm UTC (link)
So it's a minority rights issue if an Asian person plays an Asian character just because they are from different countries? Seems more like a nationalistic issue, really. Can't play that card if they are technically from the same minority.

It's not like Asian people are being played by white people anymore. Seeing Katharine Hepburn playing a Chinese woman amused me greatly. Especially when you added in the slight accent.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sepiamagpie
2005-01-26 08:56 pm UTC (link)
well, they do look different.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-26 10:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2005-01-26 10:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telophase, 2005-01-26 11:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]charmian, 2005-01-26 11:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]charmian, 2005-01-26 11:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telophase, 2005-01-26 11:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-02-18 06:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]telophase, 2005-02-18 06:46 am UTC
(no subject) - cicer, 2005-01-27 07:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fuzzypink, 2005-01-27 12:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2005-01-27 12:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]platedlizard, 2005-01-27 04:17 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 06:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2005-01-27 06:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fyren, 2005-02-18 06:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]charmian, 2005-01-26 11:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]inalasahl, 2005-01-31 03:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2005-01-31 03:51 am UTC

[info]marlo
2005-01-27 12:58 am UTC (link)
I can understand that from the viewpoint of a North American, but you have to understand the history between China and Japan. They're very different countries and very different cultures, and there is a history of conflict between the two as well, just for example, say, the Japanese occupation of Manchuria before the 1949 revolution? If you told a Chinese person, "Oh, you're Asian, so you and Japanese people are the same minority," a lot of them would be very insulted by that. Whether or not it's a question of nationality/minority is kind of splitting hairs. They're not all the same. You might as well put black people, east Indians, and people from the middle east
in there as well and say, "these people are all a minority because they are the coloureds." Y'see?

I was going to start a rant about how this is an Asian movie, but I see that it has an American director, so that doesn't really work.

A question to everyone: is this movie all going to be in English? If so, that's interesting, because I haven't heard Li Gong or Zhang Ziyi speak english before, so that'll be cool.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]marlo, 2005-01-27 01:10 am UTC
(no subject) - cicer, 2005-01-27 07:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stopthatgirl7, 2005-01-29 03:34 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 06:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marlo, 2005-01-27 06:33 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 05:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 08:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-29 02:26 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-29 04:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sizer, 2005-01-31 07:26 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-01-27 01:36 am UTC (link)
Seeing Katharine Hepburn playing a Chinese woman amused me greatly.

Nothing beats John Wayne as Gengis Khan (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049092/):P .

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 04:32 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-29 04:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bakunina, 2005-01-31 07:02 am UTC
It has to be said...
[info]shatfat
2005-01-28 06:14 am UTC (link)
Patrick Stewart playing a Frenchman.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-28 08:13 am UTC

[info]afrai
2005-01-30 01:17 pm UTC (link)
So it's a minority rights issue if an Asian person plays an Asian character just because they are from different countries?

Because everybody in Asia looks exactly the same, Asians being the homogeneous bunch they are. Uh-huh.

Can't play that card if they are technically from the same minority.

Asians aren't a minority in, you know, Asia. It's not a minority rights issue. It's an issue of casting people who actually look like the people they're supposed to play.

It's not like Asian people are being played by white people anymore.

Oh, yes, how progressive of Western filmmakers! I'm sure we Asians ought to be very grateful.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]lykaios
2005-01-26 07:14 pm UTC (link)
I liked that book. But then, I like everything. With the possible exception of the ending of said book, which was a letdown.

(Reply to this)

Hee
(Anonymous)
2005-01-26 08:54 pm UTC (link)
What's even funnier about this whole wank of Chinese vs Japanese is that the damn book was written by Arthur Golden, who was certainly neither Chinese nor Japanese...

Ava.

(Reply to this)


[info]sepiamagpie
2005-01-26 08:55 pm UTC (link)
Mmmmmm Zhang Ziyi...

Oh right. Wank and opinions. Uh.

Damn communists!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]marlo
2005-01-27 01:00 am UTC (link)
them's fightin' words!

::holds up hammer in one hand, sickle in the other::

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2005-01-28 09:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marlo, 2005-01-28 06:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]plazmah, 2005-01-27 05:25 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-28 03:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2005-01-28 09:18 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-02-01 11:20 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-01-26 09:44 pm UTC (link)
Some people really ought to get a fucking life.

Just out of curiosity, what the fuck is racist about an actor wanting to try portaying someone of a different race? Yeah, she or he would not be the same as the character genetically, but - NEWS FLASH - that's why it's called "ACTING". Because the person is pretending to something she/he is NOT.

It's no less or more bizarre for a Chinese actor to play a Japanese character than it is for an Italian actor (Al Pacino) to play a Scottish character (that guy in Revolution. Stop laughing. I mean it!) Is it racist for an Arab actor (Tony Shalhoub) to play an Italian chef (Primo in Big Night)? Or for that matter, how come nobody ever cried "racist!" when a Welsh actor (John Rhys-Davies) played a Khazad (Gimli Gloinson)? Not to mention American actors (Elijah Wood, Sean Astin) playing English-accented Kuduks (Frodo and Sam). That must have been racist, because of course we Americans are just so cavalier about things like that.

It's a fucking CHALLENGE, whether you're just putting on an accent or heavy makeup or prosthetics or whatever.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-01-26 09:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 02:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-01-27 04:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]belafarinrod, 2005-01-26 10:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-01-26 10:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]belafarinrod, 2005-01-27 01:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-01-27 04:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]caffeinatedjedi, 2005-01-27 01:47 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 02:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2005-01-26 10:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]littlest_lurker, 2005-01-26 11:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]roz_mcclure, 2005-01-27 12:14 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 12:32 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 02:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bakunina, 2005-01-31 07:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]thoms, 2005-01-27 09:12 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-01-26 10:10 pm UTC (link)
"I am afraid that this book and upcoming film will encourage Americans to restore at least one of these stereotypes. To see Japanese women -- and by association, all Asiatic women -- as nothing but gentle, delightful, passive, and utterly powerless little personal servants of men.

Seems a lot more important an issue than the nationality of the actress playing Sayuri."

You know, just like House of Flying Daggers, Hero, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon will make everything think that all asians can fly.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-26 10:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubba_ray, 2005-01-26 10:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-26 10:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2005-01-27 12:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pokecheck, 2005-01-27 01:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]platedlizard, 2005-01-27 04:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2005-01-27 03:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fryingpanofdoom, 2005-02-02 01:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2005-02-02 01:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]plazmah, 2005-01-27 05:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2005-01-26 10:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-01-26 10:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2005-01-26 10:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-01-26 10:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]littlest_lurker, 2005-01-26 11:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-01-26 11:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ashenmote, 2005-01-27 01:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]isobelsomething, 2005-01-26 11:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marlo, 2005-01-27 01:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pokecheck, 2005-01-27 09:18 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 05:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenglass, 2005-01-27 10:21 pm UTC

[info]gal_montag
2005-01-26 11:06 pm UTC (link)
I suppose anybody who cares already knows that Zhang Zi-Yi will be starring in Memoirs of a Geisha.

*a splodes!*

I love Zhang Zi-Yi way to much to care if she's Japanese or not.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 02:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2005-01-27 04:26 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 05:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2005-01-27 05:55 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 06:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2005-01-27 06:28 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 08:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mutsuki, 2005-01-27 08:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-28 04:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_clansmen, 2005-01-27 08:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2005-01-27 09:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_clansmen, 2005-01-27 09:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2005-01-27 08:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-01-27 08:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2005-01-28 05:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2005-01-27 09:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2005-01-28 05:29 pm UTC

[info]kalika_maxwell
2005-01-27 12:09 am UTC (link)
*sulks* I have a Fullmetal Alchemist wank on my hands but I'm pretty sure I'm going to get involved(some friends already are). Anybody wants to pick it up?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2005-01-27 12:40 am UTC

[info]marlo
2005-01-27 12:50 am UTC (link)
I read the book and liked it. I love Zhang Ziyi. I've had wayyyyyyy too many fights about racism dating back to my Militant Political Years in college (oh yeah, such an oldie I am at 24).

I've written and re-written this comment a bunch of times, and the only conclusion I can come to in this wank is that these wankers are stupid and boring. This argument is an old one. They need someone who's a little more batshit to come and stir things up a little. I demand more crazy!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]the_clansmen, 2005-01-27 08:27 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-01-27 01:50 am UTC (link)
Huh.

You know Hitler is always invoked in wanks? Since the Japanese committed their own holocaust against the Chinese in WW2, are they going to invoke the Emperor?

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2005-01-27 02:57 am UTC (link)
My only problem with the casting is that the movie is in English and last time I checked Zhang Ziyi didn't even UNDERSTAND enough English to accept her MTV award for best fight.

Even if that has changed Chinese accents and Japanese accents could not be more different. I think it will be jarring >.o

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]innsmouth_eyes, 2005-01-27 03:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]heddychaa, 2005-01-27 08:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marlo, 2005-01-28 06:26 pm UTC

[info]annabelle_lee
2005-01-27 04:48 am UTC (link)
Hmm. For once, I'm utterly clueless. Sure, I read the book, but it seems that it must have been so boring, the memories of it oozed out somehow. I have no opinion on it either way.

But everything else? Methinks they doth protest too much and that's hilarious.

(Reply to this)


[info]the_clansmen
2005-01-27 08:25 pm UTC (link)
I found the casting decision there vaguely odd, but Ken Watanabe is playing the Chairman and Ken Watanabe is the greatest actor ever, so the casting people get a thumbs-up from me.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bakashinobi, 2005-01-28 07:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_clansmen, 2005-01-28 08:09 pm UTC

 
   
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