Current mood:	Amazed
Current music:	Kotoko: Agony

Another webcomic wank, yay!
Yay. First Megatokyo-concerned wank...and now another webcomic has blown up.

Or something.

Italyishida is a webcomic about a lesbian couple(*COUGH*). That's all it is, pretty much, skin, some game-related jokes, and more nude skin. That's all fine, though. Some guys like it, others do not. I personally stopped reading it a while ago, because I didn't like the portrayal of the main couple, but really, that is all taste.

Now, see, in the forum that hosts the forums of that webcomic, something happened. For "pedophilia RP"(whatever that is), someone got banned. And the author of that comic, JJ, unbanned that person and gave her the title "Naughty Lez", being completely oblivious to the fact that said person was a guy posting as a porn-actress-sex-crazed-lesbian(which everyone noticed, really, since it was just SOOO obvious). When the Admin of the forum, Macia, called about that, JJ removed his parts of the forums, apparently as some way of dealing pressure. Consequently, Macia takes down the comic. Yep, thats right, Macia paid for it.

He then posted a big message on the link, which described the situation in a rather heated way.

I am offended by the fact that a person can be straight all of their life, and one day can suddenly decide to be gay. I am offended by the fact that all men are either pigs, or wimps, and can cause women to become gay because they had performance anxiety. I am offended by the notion that you can make sexual icons out of little girls as long as you rubber-stamp them with "over 18 years of age". I am offended by the notion that as long as you come on really strong and make tons of unwanted advances (of course, this only applies to hot girls coming on to hot girls), you will ultimately find love. Or lust. Whatever. These themes and more are explored daily in this comic, and all in the name of "just a little fun." or "it's sexy!" I am not the first person to say any of this.

A snipped of it, the whole bit is here:
http://magical-art.com/loungewank.html
(thanks Pirate-Kitty-Captain-wife Eclair!!! ^_^)

As you see, it is a little heated. A lot of people take a lot of offence. Yeah, I think he really should have thought before posting. It gets reworded later, as seen in the below mentioned threads.

http://starshipmoonhawk.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32
More flames
http://www.italyishida.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8096
Even more
http://www.italyishida.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8120
A guy called Windex gets extremely angry and starts more flames
http://www.italyishida.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8098

Some snippets?

My mother was in an abusive relationship with my father for years, he even threatened to kill her while she was pregnant with me because she tried to leave. A year and a half ago, she left him. A couple months after, when she "came out" and introduced her girlfriend, I was the only one of her children who was happy for her. The other two dont even talk to her anymore. Ignorant comments like the one above perpetuate the notion something is wrong with being gay, or undecided, or even uncertian. Sexaulity is part of the individual, not the group, and people, as individuals, change. Get over it.
For the record, my wife and I celebrated our second wedding anniversary last Novembe

Aww.

Well Link, that would be all well and good, if Macia didn't make his (that's going to help in the future) opinions part of his issue with continuing to host it.
Personally I don't care. I know where one Joseco has relocated his e-crap, I know where it's parked, and where it will stay for some time.
However, if anyone's going to complain, apparent homophobia (that's not how I read it, nor would I be in any way under the circumstances offended if that was his point) posted where the whole internet can see it seems to be fair game.

*pets*

And so on.

It even spills to the artist of some porn webcomic site, or something, who complains about it, this also includes a rather long post from the M-guy who booted JJ and his comic.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/superhappy/146864.html?view=2156464#t2156464

Seriously. Nuttyness on all sides.
I'm not trying to defend either, really, before anyone tries to jump me ^^. I personally think one of the two is more nuts, but they don't really differ all that much.

(Post a new comment)

	notjo 2005-02-05 05:15 pm UTC (link)
	I'm all confused at why this was done. Comic is a bad comic, or artist did bad things on the forum. Wish M-guy would pick a lane, you know? (Reply to this)

enoh
2005-02-05 06:24 pm UTC (link)

Why does every one keep saying that the comics art is wonderful? I had a look at the last few comics. The art was OK, better than many perhaps, but not that amazing.

The other thing that amused me, was that every time some one tried to explain that they found some part of the comic's content offensive, the defending squad would pipe up with:

'But it's not even pornographic.'

When will people learn that there's more offensive things than porn.

Still
I am offended by the fact that a person can be straight all of their life, and one day can suddenly decide to be gay.
Is really wanky. I agreed with pretty much all the rest of that paragraph, but that sentence was just begging for an ass kicking.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	the_clansmen 2005-02-05 09:36 pm UTC (link)
	I find the idea of porn being illegal more offensive than porn. [nods] (Reply to this)(Parent)

	redjackcash 2005-02-05 06:48 pm UTC (link)
	And here, we get a very long and wordy explanation by Macia himself. As for the comic, I agree with enigma above...man, awful art. Seriously, without the aid of different clothes, you cannot tell the lesbians apart. "Anime style" art is no excuse to be lazy and not give defining features to your characters. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	the_clansmen 2005-02-05 09:39 pm UTC (link)
	...Yeah, the artist can draw, but you are totally right. Which one is which? Gah o.o (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	schuldig 2005-02-05 10:58 pm UTC (link)
	I've concluded you can tell by the way they part their hair. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	adora_spintriae 2005-02-06 04:03 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, the artist can draw In that "I've read too many 'How to Draw Manga' books" way. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

ilpalazzo
2005-02-06 06:24 am UTC (link)

To my mind, it's impossible to read too many of those suckers. They're like cotton candy. And have you seen the one that teaches you how to draw girls' underwear? It's CLASSIC! Pubic clefts barely obscured by demure white cotton and EVERYTHING.

*ahem*

Anyway, that said, I agree that the comic art needs serious work. Give the guy a few years, make him draw things other than skinny short-haired blondes for a while, and maybe he'll develop a recognizable style of his own.

Or someone could just hit him with a truck.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	xburnbabyburnx 2005-02-06 08:55 am UTC (link)
	snort Seriously. I want to hurt the people whom I see walking around with those books. >_ (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

adora_spintriae
2005-02-06 09:07 am UTC (link)

I have a personal grudge against them. When I went to buy this utterly gorgeous book at the store, the saleslady said "Oh, so you're into that anime stuff. Have you seen the 'How to Draw Manga' books?"

I managed to get out, "Can I Eftpos that?" without strangling her, because quite obviously, yes, I had seen them, since they took up an entire 3 shelves of the store and made it harder to actually find good books on the subject, such as the one I was buying and all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	isa 2005-02-06 04:40 pm UTC (link)
	GAH. I got that book for Christmas and am so desperately, terrifyingly in love with it. Good taste for YOU. The large portion of the artists in there are just freaking phenominal... ::pets her copy and whispers sweet nothings to it:: (Reply to this)(Parent)

	mastervex 2005-02-07 09:36 am UTC (link)
	I just got that book, for my birthday...mmmm. So shiny. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	mastervex 2005-02-07 09:49 am UTC (link)
	Do you have "Japanese Comickers", too? It seems to be the same series, or something? Anyway, also very shiny. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	adora_spintriae 2005-02-07 11:52 am UTC (link)
	No, but I shall definitely look for it. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2005-02-11 02:06 am UTC (link)
	That image makes me think it's a comic about incest. Even though I know it isn't. ~Ketsuban (http://www.livejournal.com/~ketsuban) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	eclair 2005-02-05 08:38 pm UTC (link)
	The comic was incredibly crappy. That being said, I was actually surprised to see the comic go down. I mean, yay lesbians without any plot and just random snogging! ~~Who doesn't love that?!~~ Though, I kept reading it because it was laughably bad. I should cut that hobby. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	eclair 2005-02-05 08:42 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, yeah. Here's the original letter they put up on the site to replace the comic and to explain why the host took it down. http://magical-art.com/loungewank.html (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	chikane 2005-02-05 09:35 pm UTC (link)
	La Pucelle/Rhapsody Pirate Kitties!!!!!!! LOVE! Sorry ^^; (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	eclair 2005-02-05 09:46 pm UTC (link)
	Pirate kitties... and their CAPTAIN. If you want, you can edit your post and include the link I posted if you. Since yeah, its the whole document that you snippeted from that you can't find. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	chikane 2005-02-05 09:50 pm UTC (link)
	In there, and properly thanked, Miss Eclair (I hope the Dark one...xD). Sankyu ^^ Yay, I now know how to edit. Very hard to find ^^; Ahem. Their captain was just so funny. ^^ Especially against the poor whale =/ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iczer6 2005-02-05 08:45 pm UTC (link)
	The lounge, I remember that comic, never got into it. When I wanted cute lesbians and humor I went to girly. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	the_clansmen 2005-02-05 09:38 pm UTC (link)
	...Heee. That comic has me giggling. Just enough crack to make it _really_ interesting. ^_^ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	megmurry 2005-02-05 10:28 pm UTC (link)
	Yes, I liked those lesbians. They were cute and stole pants! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	enoh 2005-02-05 11:52 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, the love I hold for Girly and for Cute Wendy before it. The comic that finally explained why my attempts to boil water failed (damn elephants). I swear, Josh Lesnick turned me gay :P (Reply to this)(Parent)

	redwarrior 2005-02-05 08:47 pm UTC (link)
	Jesus, it's like watching a girl-girl porno film that was MADE for straight guys. ~~I have the sinking feeling that all Italy and Aya need is TEH COCK to go straight again.~~ (Reply to this)(Thread)

	chikane 2005-02-05 09:23 pm UTC (link)
	THis is precisely why I do not read it anymore. Many at shoujoai were very excited about it, but it just passed me =/ (Reply to this)(Parent)

Response
(Anonymous)
2005-02-06 12:10 am UTC (link)

First off, apologies for being anonymous, but I wanted to reply to a little of this. I am Macia Paladin former host of The Lounge. Two points: I agree that my index page was inflamatory. That is not the chief reason I removed it, though. The chief reason was that it was political grandstanding. Was it a cheap shot, as some have suggested? (not necessarily here, mind you.) I don't think so. I have tired to explain it to the best of my ability.

Second point: My posts on the subject are usually long because it is more complicated than "I got pissy with John and we split." As for "picking a lane", I did. I said that the Lounge, and it's views PROMOTE the behavior that led to the removal of The Lounge because the artist takes no responsibility to his fans when he presents his work. He is culpable for their actions. Disclaimers are a cop-out. Sadly, John himself has no PUBLIC comment for any of this.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: Response iczer6 2005-02-06 12:46 am UTC (link)
	because the artist takes no responsibility to his fans when he presents his work. He is culpable for their actions. How is he responsible for what other people choose to do in their own time? It's a webcomic, not an attempt at brainwashing the populace. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Response
(Anonymous)
2005-02-06 02:13 am UTC (link)

Quite right Macia. Gretting, I am Shard, former head moderator of The Lounge Forums, and the central issue here is really not the morality and content of The Lounge. It is an issue to be sure, but as the article, The Lounge was pulled from the host due to the fact that JJ let back in one "Amazon Princess" who was indeed banned from The Lounge Forums for willful enganging in cybersexual relation with a minor, and that is the sort of thing that would put my friend here in leagl jeapordy. Also, all of this messy bussiness could have indeed been avoided had JJ come out of hiding and spoke to us in a clam manner and jusr accepted culpability for his actions, but he didn't, and well what happened, happened. Let me ask a question here, have any of you seen JJ make any public, or even private statments about this situation, becuase I and many others have not, and we don't expect him to do so anytime soon.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Response iczer6 2005-02-06 02:16 am UTC (link)
	Ah. I understand then. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Response adora_spintriae 2005-02-06 04:10 am UTC (link)
	and the central issue here is really not the morality and content of The Lounge Then maybe you should take this down, and stop making it sound like it is. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	adora_spintriae 2005-02-06 04:09 am UTC (link)
	I am offended by the fact that a person can be straight all of their life, and one day can suddenly decide to be gay. ... Jeeze, don't try and step in all the offence you're going to cause with your Rant of Moral Righteousness™. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-02-06 04:23 am UTC (link)
	Yea, we took that down a couple of days ago, what you are looking at is a hosted snapshot of the original message from my colleague, we have explained all of this many times in detail on the forums. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-02-06 04:50 am UTC (link)
	Shard, hold on a second. Morality is only PART of the issue, but it is an EQUAL part because MORALITY is what caused us to dispute the return of someone dangerous. The problem is that everyone keeps trying to fivorce the two issues, and they are inextricably linked. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-02-06 04:56 am UTC (link)
	Fair enough, morality is an important part of the issue here, be we do wnat to be clear that it isn't the issue of the content of The Lounge that got JJ kicked off from the host. No, it is the moral issue over that JJ mistakenly let let a dangerous degenrate pedophile back into the community, which put everybody at risk and then failed to answer for his actions. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	adora_spintriae 2005-02-06 09:30 am UTC (link)
	So? I've read the forums, and it still doesn't account for the offensive idiocy that says "Pulp webcomics must be realistic in their depiction of sexuality and relationships". (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2005-02-06 04:58 am UTC (link)
	Your icon is so great that "evolvefish.com" just made a sale. :) -LJ user "bekkoko" (Reply to this)(Parent)

annabelle_lee
2005-02-06 08:16 am UTC (link)

Ah, the Lounge. I never read it, seeing as it had no real plot, but I saw a bunch of art for it that JJ has up at his dA site. It's like cotton candy; pretty, sweet, and has no nutritional value whatsoever.

However, from what I get that this shitfit is all about, there's a serious bad judgement call from all around. JJ must have been on drugs to miss that the loony on the forums was a geniune freak and to even encourage his/her/its behavior, but Macia's removal of the whole comic was stupid.

What did it accomplish anyway, Macia? The whole fandom of the Lounge thinks you're batshit insane for trying to control them. They see you pulling the webcomic as you trying to censor their access to something that they see as completely harmless fun.

Now I personally think it's crazy to get worked up about something that really has no meaning, which is why I'll be pointing and sniggering in the corner, thanks.

Damn, I talk too much. WTF.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-02-06 09:41 am UTC (link)
	::cough:: the anonymous man in the black hat thinks macia removed the comic because he no longer wished to be affiliated with what morals or lack thereof were idolized by the comic. there is also the betrayal of trust the author of the comic demonstrated when removing the ban on the predator without contacting the administration on the establishment. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	annabelle_lee 2005-02-06 09:56 am UTC (link)
	Hell, I know that and you know that, but do the fans? Probably not. They see this as something akin to 'self-aggrandizing grandstanding bullshit' considering how the situation was dealt/not dealt with. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2005-02-06 02:06 pm UTC (link)
	Just to let you sexual offenders like the one JJ let back on the forums was a big no-no. The Lounge is back at its old Keenspace location, but JJ apparently removed his stuff from the forums in some manner of a hissy fit. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2005-02-06 10:12 pm UTC (link)
	That would be correct. (Reply to this)(Parent)

(Anonymous)
2005-02-09 06:13 am UTC (link)

Macia stopped the comic because him and JJ aren't really in a good term anymore and after all it was his money that was being spent to keep the domain and webspace up, so I guess it makes sense... you wouldn't be paying for what you don't think is worth anymore, y'know?
And it's not like the Lounge is gone for good. It's back on keenspace, up and running just fine.

All in all, I think the whole "situation" has gotten a little out of hand and unnecessarily blown out of proportion. Ah well, hopefully it will die down some time soon.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

annabelle_lee
2005-02-09 06:47 am UTC (link)

No, no, no. You're not getting my point. Macia was in his rights to pull the comic, but not in the way he did. He basically attacked the fandom of the Lounge because they liked what they did and even though he pulled down his 'rant', he still continues to make this into a moral issue and generalizes all fans just because of one wacko.

Instead of airing out his agenda against these people, why didn't he just say "Hey, I'm not sponsoring the Lounge anymore. JJ will be moving it to a new home; thanks for your patronage."? It's a hell of a lot more simple and if he still felt strongly against it, he could have said so in private, to JJ himself.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	ladyrogue 2005-02-07 06:41 am UTC (link)
	Am I the only one who's completely confused? Because last time I checked, you can't just decide to be gay! I can't wake up tomorrow morning and decide I'm attracted to girls more than I am to guys, it doesn't work that way! Or is this not the issue being argued/ranted about? I really can't tell! (Reply to this)