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Irony ([info]isntitironic) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2005-02-09 10:05:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Mundane

Once again, HP fandom proves its ability to wank anywhere, anytime.
I instigated this one, but was not actually involved.

What happened was that I posted something I hoped people would find mildly amusing on [info]fanficrants.

Okay, fanficcer boys and fanficcer girls - but mostly fanficcer girls - gather around! We're going to play a little game! Don't worry, it's not hard... all you have to do is answer one simple little question.

WHICH IS HOGWARTS?

this one?

OR

this one?

Take your time. This is not a trick question.


So people comment. People snark. It is a normal [info]fanficrants day. And then [info]junediamanti shows up wearing the crown of ultimate canon-nazi. I fear everything has been very polite so far, but it amused me nevertheless.

junediamanti: It is a trick question, actually. Picture A is taken from a cheap and nasty fanfic to be found on an ffnet near you. Picture B is taken from an equally inaccurate (but very expensive and glossy looking) fanfic to be seen on you television set provided you have either VHS or a DVD. Both are fanon. B is prettier.

meshou: Disagree. Second isn't just based upon the books, it's sanctioned by the author as something she wants her name on, and involves heavy input directly from her that didn't come from the books. If she didn't, she wouldn't have signed contracts, nor would she take part in helping promote the movies. They are a separate source material. There are most likely visual things in there she sanctioned not in the books. She has taken actors and told them what would happen in future books so they would have a better clue how to play their characters faithfully. I wouldn't call it canon, but I would call it a supplement to canon, and certainly not fanfic.

junediamanti: The agreement is after the fact. And generally they would show her what they had planned, not involve her in the design. I personally do not consider the movies as canon, that is all.

meshou: So wait-- she did not sign her name to give permission to make a Harry Potter movie? I'd think she'd be outraged if they made it without her approval or permission, or if they didn't publish something faithful to her books. Steven King took his name off Lawnmower Man at considerable loss, I don't believe JKR couldn't have done that.

fernwithy: Whether she signed permission or not is irrelevant--where the books differ from the movies (a point which increases with each one), the books are canon and the movies are wrong. Where they don't differ, the movies are fan art. That said, of the two pictures, only one depicts a British castle. You could have as easily put up Winsor Castle, and it would still be the right answer. ;)

I wonder if we'd be having this same discussion if I'd used an illustration from the books. "JKR didn't draw that! It's not canon!"


(Post a new comment)


[info]mistressrenet
2005-02-09 07:22 pm UTC (link)
People really will argue about anything! Whee!

(Reply to this)


[info]nevadafighter
2005-02-09 07:30 pm UTC (link)
So . . . the movies aren't canon?

Huh?

That makes NO sense.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]twocorpses
2005-02-09 07:32 pm UTC (link)
Sure it does. JKR didn't write the movies, they were adapted from her books. And there are lots of things in the movies that aren't in the books. :)

I am firmly on the side of movies!=canon. :D

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-02-09 07:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]senor_pinata, 2005-02-09 07:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-02-09 07:48 pm UTC
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(no subject) - [info]seppuku, 2005-02-09 11:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2005-02-10 12:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fuzzytowers, 2005-02-10 02:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-02-09 08:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nekoneko, 2005-02-09 08:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-02-09 08:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ahiru, 2005-02-09 10:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-02-10 03:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lessis, 2005-02-10 12:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-02-09 09:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-09 09:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-02-09 09:26 pm UTC
Han shot first! - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-09 10:07 pm UTC
Re: Han shot first! - [info]ahiru, 2005-02-09 10:45 pm UTC
Re: Han shot first! - [info]princessdot, 2005-02-10 03:03 am UTC
Re: Han shot first! - [info]blackjackrocket, 2005-02-11 09:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaina, 2005-02-09 11:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-02-09 11:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-10 12:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-02-10 12:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-10 01:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-02-10 01:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]monkeybird, 2005-02-10 04:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]teapotgirl, 2005-02-10 01:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-02-10 01:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-10 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaina, 2005-02-10 04:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-02-10 05:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]plazmah, 2005-02-10 06:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-10 09:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lizzypaul, 2005-02-10 04:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-02-10 05:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]plazmah, 2005-02-10 06:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-10 09:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaina, 2005-02-10 04:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]plazmah, 2005-02-10 06:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-10 09:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]plazmah, 2005-02-11 01:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-02-10 03:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]plazmah, 2005-02-11 01:15 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-02-10 09:10 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-02-10 10:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaina, 2005-02-10 04:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]monkeybird, 2005-02-10 04:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaina, 2005-02-10 05:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]goblin, 2005-02-10 07:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaina, 2005-02-10 08:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-10 09:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jerel, 2005-02-13 08:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-02-11 12:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaina, 2005-02-10 04:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-02-10 06:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-09 11:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaoscheebs, 2005-02-10 04:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2005-02-11 09:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruuger, 2005-02-09 08:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stubbleglitter, 2005-02-09 08:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruuger, 2005-02-09 08:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]big_bad_wolf, 2005-02-10 08:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]feyth, 2005-02-11 08:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2005-02-09 09:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stubbleglitter, 2005-02-09 10:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2005-02-12 12:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bitca, 2005-02-09 10:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stubbleglitter, 2005-02-09 11:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dorothy1901, 2005-02-10 12:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]stubbleglitter, 2005-02-10 12:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaoscheebs, 2005-02-10 04:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rawles, 2005-02-11 09:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]starherd, 2005-02-09 08:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-09 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruuger, 2005-02-09 09:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bitca, 2005-02-09 10:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruuger, 2005-02-09 10:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-09 10:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruuger, 2005-02-09 10:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-09 10:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jrandomlurker, 2005-02-10 02:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-02-10 03:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jrandomlurker, 2005-02-10 03:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eryn, 2005-02-10 05:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-02-10 06:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]__kat__, 2005-02-11 06:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jerel, 2005-02-13 08:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-02-09 10:54 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2005-02-10 03:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]elffromspace, 2005-02-10 09:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]asira, 2005-02-10 02:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]naienko, 2005-02-13 04:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]asira, 2005-02-14 02:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lindentree, 2005-02-10 04:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ellensmithee, 2005-02-10 12:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]stopthatgirl7, 2005-02-11 09:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-02-11 12:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kalicephirot, 2005-02-09 09:29 pm UTC

[info]narcissam
2005-02-09 09:16 pm UTC (link)
*nods* Movies aren't canon. Sometimes they contradict canon. Unless you want to call them movie-canon. Next argument?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nevadafighter, 2005-02-09 11:18 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

(Anonymous)
2005-02-10 04:06 pm UTC (link)
The movies are absolutely NOT canon. They're commercialized bastardizations of it.

I enjoy them and respect them, but they're not canon.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2005-02-09 08:05 pm UTC (link)
Meh. The LOTR fandom wanks about this continuously, and it's an old argument in the HP fandom. (As well as Anime, apparently from the comments above.)

You're right. It has been pretty polite. And not terribly wanky.

-Lorazia on LJ (longtime lurker, account creation on JF is currently off)

(Reply to this)


[info]soraphilia
2005-02-09 09:07 pm UTC (link)
Something about junediamanti's lack of contractions really irritates me.

(Reply to this)


[info]narcissam
2005-02-09 09:09 pm UTC (link)
I'm giving this 'wank' a thumbs down. I need more than a polite discussion over the definition of canon to amuse me.

(Reply to this)


[info]dunc
2005-02-09 09:32 pm UTC (link)
If 10 years in fandom has taught me nothing else, it's that arguing about 'canon' is about as useless as trying to explain separation of church and state to a frothing evangelical.

Be all for whatever you're into, just don't expect everyone to agree with you.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2005-02-09 09:41 pm UTC (link)
Too true. I used to get involved in those debates, but that was 10 years ago and I like to think that I have better things to do now.

(Though I can't resist pointing out that distinctions between, say, book and film have been argued over by librarians and other such professionals for a long time, because it affects the cataloging of materials. From our perspective, HP, the books, and HP, the movies, are indeed separate and distinct works. There's a lot of incredibly boring theory behind this assertion, but it works for me. Pun unintended.)

(rimrunner @ LJ)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dunc, 2005-02-09 10:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-02-09 10:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankismyfandom, 2005-02-10 06:12 am UTC

[info]adora_spintriae
2005-02-10 03:05 am UTC (link)
But if all of fandom stopped arguing about canon, there'd be nothing left to argue about!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-02-10 05:16 pm UTC

[info]carlanime
2005-02-09 10:18 pm UTC (link)
Because jokes aren't to laugh at, they're jumping-off points for tedious arguments!
Way to go, junediamanti. Hey, did you know every time you make a completely humourless remark, a bunny dies?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]eryn
2005-02-10 05:04 am UTC (link)
Do I spy a Corner Gas icon?

[/random]

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]carlanime, 2005-02-10 03:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - skadi, 2005-02-10 07:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]heddychaa, 2005-02-13 12:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]heddychaa, 2005-02-13 12:32 pm UTC

[info]kicklecubicle
2005-02-09 11:01 pm UTC (link)
(raises hand) Ooh, ooh, ooh! I know! It's the first one! The first one!

Wake up in the mornin'
Feelin' shy and lonely
Gee, I gotta go to school

Don't think I can make it
Don't think I can take it
I'm wonderin' what I'm gonna do

But then I look around and see
That someone is smiling right at me
...WAIT!!! That someone's talkin' to me
Hey, I got a new friend

Everybody can succeed, all you need is to believe
Be honest with yourself, forget your dues and doubts
C'mon give us a try at Degrassi Jr. High

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]carlanime, 2005-02-10 01:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kicklecubicle, 2005-02-10 02:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]carlanime, 2005-02-10 03:34 pm UTC
icon! - [info]livii, 2005-02-10 04:57 am UTC
Re: icon! - [info]carlanime, 2005-02-10 03:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lindentree, 2005-02-10 04:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]livii, 2005-02-10 04:56 am UTC
Wank?
(Anonymous)
2005-02-10 02:01 am UTC (link)
Can somebody explain to me just what defines a wank, and how on earth the above discussion - in which not a single flame is exchanged - can be called a wank?

-Privatemaladict on LJ

(Reply to this)(Thread)

From the Community front page - [info]schoenschoen, 2005-02-10 02:12 am UTC
Re: From the Community front page - (Anonymous), 2005-02-10 02:53 am UTC
Re: From the Community front page - (Anonymous), 2005-02-10 02:57 am UTC
Re: From the Community front page - (Anonymous), 2005-02-10 03:01 am UTC
Re: From the Community front page - (Anonymous), 2005-02-10 03:29 am UTC
Re: From the Community front page - [info]elffromspace, 2005-02-10 09:27 am UTC
Re: From the Community front page - [info]loony666, 2005-02-11 02:16 am UTC
Re: From the Community front page - [info]pokecheck, 2005-02-10 03:42 am UTC
Re: From the Community front page - (Anonymous), 2005-02-10 03:49 am UTC
Re: From the Community front page - [info]pokecheck, 2005-02-10 03:53 am UTC
Re: From the Community front page - (Anonymous), 2005-02-10 03:55 am UTC
Re: From the Community front page - [info]nevadafighter, 2005-02-10 06:49 am UTC
Re: From the Community front page - [info]llama_treats, 2005-02-10 05:26 pm UTC
Re: From the Community front page - [info]toxictattoo, 2005-02-10 06:15 pm UTC
Re: Wank? - (Anonymous), 2005-02-10 04:09 pm UTC
Re: Wank? - [info]givemethepen, 2005-02-14 07:00 am UTC

[info]jrandomlurker
2005-02-10 02:05 am UTC (link)
When I finally establish my media empire publish my books and crap, I'm going commission other novelists, comic artists, musicians and random drunken street performers to create at LEAST fifteen different versions of the universe . Then I will give contradictory answers to questions in interviews. Finally, I'm going to declare that only -fanfic- should be considered canon.

Just to mess with people like the OP.

It's fiction. Enjoy it or don't. Who cares?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2005-02-10 03:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pope_shane, 2005-02-11 12:13 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-02-13 08:27 am UTC

tourette
2005-02-10 03:48 am UTC (link)
Rowling has said that the Great Hall in the movies is her Hall, so it was created by her in the sense that she made sure it looked as it should. I presume that by the standards of most, it wouldn't be considered "canon" unless she'd built the building herself. Which is okay by me, but I think the matter of the sets is slightly more grey than that.

Things in the movies that actually differ significantly from the books are another matter. For example, various scenes where Hermione has someone else's lines. Here, I would say that because the movies deviate from the source, they are not canon. However, because the look of the Great Hall in the movies does not directly contradict the source, while it might not be considered "canon" per se, it does not mean it is uncanon either. Rather like the Ron/Hermione ship - it is plainly not canon, since it has not appeared in the books. But because canon is incomplete, it cannot be considered uncanon yet, as there is potential there. I don't know what one calls something which is neither canon nor uncanon, but that might just be because I need to stop waffling on and go to bed.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]elektra3, 2005-02-10 04:51 am UTC

[info]annabelle_lee
2005-02-10 04:52 am UTC (link)
The horse is dead, Jim. Let it go. Really.

There's all sorts of canon, even in HP. Movie-canon, book-canon, fanon, and JKR-canon (which I ignore because while she's a good writer, she's also slightly ditzy and doesn't keep her facts straight). Just pick one and STFU.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2005-02-10 11:02 am UTC

[info]furiosity
2005-02-10 03:56 pm UTC (link)
You know, I was going to comment on that with a link to HPL's map of Hogwarts and Environs. I'm glad I didn't. :P

<-- book-canon nazi *looks around*
Should I have said "canon whore" instead? *eyes the Deleterius icon wank fearfully* *flashes tits to onlookers, just in case*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-02-10 05:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - kroki_refur, 2005-02-10 05:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]furiosity, 2005-02-10 05:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]theartema, 2005-02-10 06:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-02-14 03:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-02-15 02:36 am UTC

[info]jfpbookworm
2005-02-10 06:12 pm UTC (link)
And here I thought the wankiest bit was the implicit complaint that HP fanfic shouldn't ever have teenage melodrama.

*chough* *changh*

(Reply to this)


[info]narcissam
2005-02-10 06:21 pm UTC (link)
I think that what I really dislike about this wank is not that it isn't funny (it isn't to me, but mileage varies), but that it's all about the OP's feelings being hurt and seeking validation in FW. She wasn't wanking in the first place, that's true, but it still bothers me to see people using FW to redress presumed wrongs.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-02-10 11:54 pm UTC

[info]redjackcash
2005-02-10 07:04 pm UTC (link)
Blah blah blah boring. They're sanctioned by the author, they're friggan' canon. That's my definition, and I find it works well. I don't muck about with it just because there is something I like about it.

(Reply to this)


[info]pope_shane
2005-02-11 12:12 am UTC (link)
Ten buck says the ranter is a diehard Severus/Remus 'shipper. And last time I looked, JK didnt sign off on homoerotic subtext.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-02-11 01:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pope_shane, 2005-02-11 01:48 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2005-02-12 11:48 pm UTC (link)
((is Gunneryunagirl on livejournal))

As I said in that topic, the movies aren't canon. If they were, does Harry have blue eyes or green eyes? =\

(Reply to this)


 
   
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