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Why Yes, I WAS Raised By Hyenas! ([info]raisedbyhyenas) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2003-06-06 09:59:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:drunk

Comicfic is positively RIPE with wank, did you know?
For instance, take this guy. He is so wanky (in the classic sense of self-obliviously righteous pseudo-intellectual wankery, which is my favorite kind!) that there was once a journal devoted specifically to parodying his posts. (Yes, Wank Will Eat Itself!) He is like a volcano of wank. He lies deceptively dormant for aeons, and then BOOM there goes Pompeii. Worth waiting for, really.

Anyhow, observe the latest. I would summarize this as "I write fanfic and I regularly attend out-of-country fanfic conventions and a good portion of my life revolves around other fanficcers BUT I AM NOT A FEEELTHY 'FAN' -- I am an ARTISTE, god damn it, and though you slope-browed troglodytes may have Friended my journal you are not sapient enough to comprehend the difference. Feh. Feh, I say. Please argue with me, I'm not done being superior yet."

And then FritoKal weighs in and, uh, my eyes started bleeding at about that point, so I'll let somebody else tackle that. But do NOT let her distract you! Do not lose sight of the original wank: "I'm not a fan (despite mountains of evidence to the contrary) because fans suck and I'm really quite impossibly cool." Try to get your brain around that. I'm still trying. Guess I'm a troglodyte. Ook.

(EDIT: Whoops! I've just been told that at least one of that unholy brood monitors F_W, so expect incoming haughty rebuttal in five...four...three...)



(Post a new comment)


[info]esorlehcar
2003-06-06 08:08 pm UTC (link)
No, I said I write comic book fanfiction. I'm not a 'fan' of it. A fan is someone who observes. I take part, I do things, I make things happen. I am a writer, not a fan. By that horrible logic, Elijah Wood has to be a member of LotR RPS fandom.

Oh, my lord. What a moron.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]aruru
2003-06-06 08:39 pm UTC (link)
*reading that as well as the rest of the thing*

Wait, wait... so actively participating in fandom makes you LESS of a fan than the average fan? And by this logic, someone who plays soccer CANNOT admire the sport he plays anywhere as much as someone who just watches it?

...

......

.........I don't know whether to break out in a fit of hysterical laughter or pound my head against the wall at this.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]blakey
2003-06-06 08:43 pm UTC (link)
It's like he honestly can't comprehend the difference between being part of the actual original work, and creating fan work! I particularly love that he says he writes to tell stories, not because he's a fan. And yet he writes fanfiction! The only reason I can possibly think of for that is that he's just too lazy to come up with his own characters, etc. Prime, self-deluded wank!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nita, 2003-06-07 09:39 pm UTC

[info]daijinryuu
2003-06-06 09:32 pm UTC (link)
I'm having difficulty following the horrible logic that leads to the conclusion that "person writing fanfiction = fan" is horrible logic.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]sajasma
2003-06-06 09:46 pm UTC (link)
I know! I was all *boggle* when I read that bit. Is he saying that Elijah Wood writes his own RPS Lotrip fan fiction? The fuck?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]esorlehcar, 2003-06-06 09:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2003-06-06 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hugsnkisses, 2003-06-07 01:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lulinda, 2003-06-07 12:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]misswindy, 2003-06-07 04:24 am UTC

[info]maryavatar
2003-06-06 08:41 pm UTC (link)
Wow, a veritable sea of wank and wank by-products. The wank is thick enough to support large mammals, and perhaps even heavy-container shipping. Oooh, I guess I'm not a fan either, since I've actually done more than sit passively in front of the TV and breathe.

Does switching channels to specifically watch a show disqualify you from fandom? 'Cause, y'know, that requires effort.

(Reply to this)


allen
2003-06-06 08:50 pm UTC (link)
It's sad, but reading your first paragraph, I didn't even have to click the link to know who you were talking about. *g*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

HAH! Really? Wow!
[info]raisedbyhyenas
2003-06-06 08:56 pm UTC (link)
Well, according to my comicfic friend (who's laughing hysterically at this right now), "it was either him, Dex, or one of the Smith brothers." The North American Alliance Of Comicwank.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: HAH! Really? Wow! - allen, 2003-06-06 09:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2003-06-06 09:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]raisedbyhyenas, 2003-06-06 10:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2003-06-06 10:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]raisedbyhyenas, 2003-06-06 10:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hugsnkisses, 2003-06-07 01:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]zannechaos, 2003-06-07 04:16 am UTC

[info]ymfaery
2003-06-06 08:51 pm UTC (link)
You know, considering who's being discussed, I'd take the entire thing with a grain of salt. I'd also wonder if there was something that got left out--that batch knows each other in RL, and this sounds like something that was part of a conversation.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-06 08:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2003-06-06 09:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-06 09:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sajasma, 2003-06-06 09:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2003-06-06 10:05 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]lm, 2003-06-07 03:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lcsbanana, 2003-06-07 07:46 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]amatia, 2003-06-09 01:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]amatia, 2003-06-09 01:55 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]amatia, 2003-06-10 12:09 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]amatia, 2003-06-11 02:53 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-08 01:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2003-06-06 10:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]raisedbyhyenas, 2003-06-06 10:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2003-06-06 10:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2003-06-06 10:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]renjenri, 2003-06-07 01:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2003-06-07 03:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]schoenschoen, 2003-06-07 02:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sajasma, 2003-06-06 10:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-06 10:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2003-06-06 11:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-07 12:07 am UTC
Ooops, forgot to mention... - [info]ymfaery, 2003-06-06 09:31 pm UTC
Re: Ooops, forgot to mention... - [info]aruru, 2003-06-06 09:50 pm UTC
Re: Ooops, forgot to mention... - [info]ymfaery, 2003-06-06 10:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2003-06-06 10:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-06 10:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2003-06-06 11:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-07 12:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2003-06-07 12:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]raisedbyhyenas, 2003-06-06 08:58 pm UTC
Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP.
[info]aruru
2003-06-06 08:53 pm UTC (link)
Also:

As proven, a writer of fanfiction doesn't necessarily have to enjoy the source of their work, simply to be aware of it and be able to portray it in their own way.

Because you know, just writing an original series using these as a source of inspiration instead is just TOO HARD.

That's it, I'm going to write an Evangelion fanfic where Shinji isn't spineless, Gendo isn't a cold bastard, Rei isn't an emotionless mute, and Asuka ain't bitchy. Who cares if I didn't like the anime* and found it horribly boring, I'll just portray it in my own way so it'll be kewliez! And it'll have tons of Touji x Shinji and Kaworu x Shinji s3xx0rz!!!!!!1!11


*[The anime, not the manga. As far as I've gotten in it, the manga is actually pretty cool. Sadamoto really should've been the one directing EVA, not Mr. SO D33P Existential Angst Anno.]

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]pradaloz, 2003-06-06 09:54 pm UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]ymfaery, 2003-06-06 10:19 pm UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]aruru, 2003-06-06 10:48 pm UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]schoenschoen, 2003-06-07 02:59 am UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]puipui, 2003-06-08 04:45 am UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]iczer6, 2003-06-07 02:56 am UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]aruru, 2003-06-07 03:32 am UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]iczer6, 2003-06-07 03:38 am UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]aruru, 2003-06-08 12:27 am UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]diamonde, 2003-06-07 03:59 pm UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]zannechaos, 2003-06-07 04:46 pm UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]aruru, 2003-06-07 07:36 pm UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]aruru, 2003-06-07 07:40 pm UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]snacky, 2003-06-07 09:11 pm UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]aruru, 2003-06-07 11:01 pm UTC
Re: Further "WHAT THE SHIT?" moments in the OP. - [info]schoenschoen, 2003-06-07 08:33 pm UTC

[info]ereshkigal
2003-06-06 09:01 pm UTC (link)
Man, if you go by that logic then people who go to church aren't real Christians.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]carolinecrane, 2003-06-06 09:24 pm UTC

[info]aruru
2003-06-06 09:23 pm UTC (link)
BTW, did anyone make it all through the wank to this reply by one of his friends at the end? There's some amusing lines in it, particularly this one:

5. Those "My fandom blahblahblah icons" are stupid and generalize the behavour of an entire fandom.
5a. The origin of those icons may have been to mock fandom generalizations.


"MAY?!"

Good god... dude, if you can't tell from a mere glance that those things were definitely meant to be TONGUE-IN-CHEEK, then YOU NEED A HUMOR TRANSPLANT, STAT.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Gee, you THINK?! - [info]raisedbyhyenas, 2003-06-06 09:40 pm UTC
Re: Gee, you THINK?! - [info]aruru, 2003-06-06 09:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2003-06-06 09:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-06 09:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2003-06-06 10:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-06 10:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2003-06-06 11:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2003-06-06 11:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pradaloz, 2003-06-06 11:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2003-06-07 12:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2003-06-07 01:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]renjenri, 2003-06-07 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]raisedbyhyenas, 2003-06-07 01:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]arabella, 2003-06-07 01:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2003-06-07 01:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]snacky, 2003-06-07 02:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2003-06-07 02:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2003-06-07 02:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]renjenri, 2003-06-07 06:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2003-06-07 06:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]renjenri, 2003-06-07 06:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mpoetess, 2003-06-07 07:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]renjenri, 2003-06-07 07:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]schoenschoen, 2003-06-07 03:05 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)
(no subject) - [info]schoenschoen, 2003-06-08 02:23 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

[info]nevadafighter
2003-06-06 09:32 pm UTC (link)
When did the word 'fan' become an expletive? I know it has a lot of negative connotations (the squealing fangirl, the obsessed fan, etc.) but why all this fear to use it? I don't particularly like the word, but I'm not afraid to use it when its appropriate.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-06 10:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2003-06-06 10:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-07 08:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nevadafighter, 2003-06-07 09:14 am UTC
Re: - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-07 09:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nevadafighter, 2003-06-07 09:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-07 09:47 am UTC
Re: - [info]nevadafighter, 2003-06-07 10:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-07 09:01 pm UTC
Re: - [info]nevadafighter, 2003-06-07 09:38 pm UTC

[info]pradaloz
2003-06-06 09:57 pm UTC (link)
Someone please tell me that he's screwing with us. Surely he can't be serious. I can't even read past the first few lines--I'm laughing too hard. I know this guy has a history here, but this is too outrageous to be for real.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-06 10:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pradaloz, 2003-06-06 11:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]raisedbyhyenas, 2003-06-07 12:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-07 12:23 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pradaloz, 2003-06-07 03:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-07 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-06-07 12:17 am UTC

[info]deeablo
2003-06-06 10:06 pm UTC (link)
Writing fanfiction is an act. Those who take an active part in it are not "fans", they're writers.

Vomiting is also an act. Take a look at your shoes there, sparky.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2003-06-06 10:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ingrid, 2003-06-06 10:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ymfaery, 2003-06-06 10:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2003-06-07 12:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]carolinecrane, 2003-06-07 12:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]raisedbyhyenas, 2003-06-07 01:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]amandatwop, 2003-06-07 04:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]carolinecrane, 2003-06-07 06:04 pm UTC

[info]guinevere33
2003-06-06 11:58 pm UTC (link)
I particularly like that when someone actually got our the dicitonary and said, "Dude: fan comes from FANATIC, which means intensenly interested in the subject", Mr. NoNoNotAFan didn't even bother to respond do that part of his reply.

(Reply to this)


[info]sorchar
2003-06-07 12:51 am UTC (link)
My head hurts again. You people have to stop doing this to me.

I think maybe he's really just a fan of his own pontificating. But that's just me.

(Reply to this)


[info]nekoneko
2003-06-07 12:54 am UTC (link)
Let me get this straight...

He writes fanfics, because he has 'just got stories to tell'. If he has these stories to tell, why does he even bother with the characters? Or is he trying to put a new spin on characters he doesn't really like? Doesn't that make him more likely to portray them badly?

...

Fuck it, I'm lost.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dawnswalker, 2003-06-07 08:05 am UTC

[info]lulinda
2003-06-07 12:59 am UTC (link)
Good lord I hate pretentious twits like this.

Get the fuck over yourself, buddy.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]gairid, 2003-06-07 02:33 am UTC
Come again?
[info]andraste101
2003-06-07 01:13 am UTC (link)
How can you write a story based on characters from a comic if you don't *read* the comic in order to meet the characters? By his own definition readers are "fans" so he's a "fan", too. Am I reading him right? But simply by virtue of picking up a pen and writing a story he's elevated to the status of artiste and no longer one of the drooling rabble? Wow. His readers must feel so honored and valued. Personally, I think it's a good thing that he doesn't want to be identified with fandom in any way. I mean, who'd want him?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Come again? - [info]dorothy1901, 2003-06-07 01:48 am UTC
Re: Come again? - [info]andraste101, 2003-06-07 03:32 am UTC
genuine question
[info]lcsbanana
2003-06-07 01:51 am UTC (link)
Comic wank seems to tend more towards the male, at least what I've seen of it--more aggression, less passive-aggression, basically. Nute being a perfect (blargh) example--he redefines words to suit his whim, for heaven's sakes.

(I'm running on 3 hours of sleep so this is less coherent than I'd like.)

Uh, question being, do other people notice this difference? Between men and women wanksters? Or male and female fans, even, seem to divide along these lines to me as well. Even when they're not being asses, guy fans seem...there's this sense of entitlement, however benign. 'S difficult to explain without sounding like an idiot. Mrgh.

Uh. Yes. The question part. Comic people, is this just me? Do you have a higher male percentage in your fandom or what?

Also, does Nute remind anybody else of Ian McDuff? Entitlement, superiority complex, highly-overestimated sense of his own ability, it's like they were twins.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Didn't write this, was commented privately to me by a friend without a JF account - [info]raisedbyhyenas, 2003-06-07 02:34 am UTC
Re: genuine question - [info]schoenschoen, 2003-06-07 03:13 am UTC
Re: genuine question - [info]raisedbyhyenas, 2003-06-07 07:22 am UTC
Re: genuine question - [info]schoenschoen, 2003-06-07 08:39 pm UTC
Re: genuine question - [info]phosfate, 2003-06-07 05:01 am UTC
Re: genuine question - [info]iczer6, 2003-06-07 06:16 pm UTC
Re: genuine question - [info]phosfate, 2003-06-08 06:12 am UTC
Re: genuine question - [info]iczer6, 2003-06-08 06:18 am UTC
Re: genuine question - [info]phosfate, 2003-06-08 06:20 am UTC
Re: genuine question - [info]iczer6, 2003-06-08 06:23 am UTC
Re: genuine question - [info]stubbleglitter, 2003-06-07 05:54 am UTC
Re: genuine question - [info]lcsbanana, 2003-06-07 06:29 am UTC
Re: genuine question - allen, 2003-06-07 07:46 am UTC

[info]hugsnkisses
2003-06-07 01:56 am UTC (link)
I meat to mention this before, but I forgot. I think he likes us ^_~

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]carolinecrane, 2003-06-07 02:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-07 08:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-07 08:52 pm UTC
The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]nute, 2003-06-08 04:52 am UTC

[info]schoenschoen
2003-06-07 03:16 am UTC (link)
What a damned tool.

As others have pointed out before me, why would he even bother writing fics if he isn't even a fan of the characters he's writing about? That just seems counterproductive and passionless. He'd have a far better time making up his own characters and then trying to sell *them* off to comics companies for *profit*.

But I forgot -- some people, who are obviously better than the *rest* of us lowly fans, are such great writers that they spend all their time on *plot* and forget to actually make likable characters. Oh, okay, I gotcha.

Check.
Plot = teh good. Characterization = who needs it?

It's ficcers like him that make my blood itch.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mirabellawotr, 2003-06-07 08:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]schoenschoen, 2003-06-07 08:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slippery_fish, 2003-06-07 05:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schoenschoen, 2003-06-07 08:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slippery_fish, 2003-06-07 10:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]schoenschoen, 2003-06-07 10:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]slippery_fish, 2003-06-07 10:30 pm UTC
The point that was originally trying to be made...
[info]nute
2003-06-07 08:31 am UTC (link)
As usual, I misspoke in the original post. I do that a lot. Took me a while to figure out that some folks wouldn't get it, because as usual I wasn't being clear.

Writing fanfiction, or taking part actively in any medium, is different than just being a fan of it. The post was geared towards a few folks who tend to refer to fanfiction writers as a "fandom". While many of them are comic fans, and thus part of that fandom, it's not really an accurate description when talking about them as writers.

I like to think being seen as a writer (both of fanfiction and of other stuff) is a bit more complimentary than just "a fan". Thus, I get a bit miffed when something I work actively at (writing) is reduced to being described as a reactive activity (fandom).

No insult was meant to fans of any media, I went a bit overboard for effect. It does come across as wanky, doesn't it? Ah well, let it not be said that I can't recognize my own occasional wankerifficness.

~M

(Reply to this)(Thread)

*grins and salutes* - [info]raisedbyhyenas, 2003-06-07 08:36 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-07 09:05 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]nute, 2003-06-07 09:09 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]ladylance, 2003-06-07 11:00 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]andraste101, 2003-06-07 10:53 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]sorchar, 2003-06-07 11:54 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]zannechaos, 2003-06-07 02:17 pm UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]andraste101, 2003-06-07 05:33 pm UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-07 08:40 pm UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]andraste101, 2003-06-07 11:45 pm UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-08 12:22 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]andraste101, 2003-06-08 06:51 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-08 07:14 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-08 07:35 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]heyoka, 2003-06-08 10:13 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-08 10:48 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]pyratejenni, 2003-06-07 11:51 pm UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]sorchar, 2003-06-08 12:31 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-08 12:35 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]carolinecrane, 2003-06-07 05:55 pm UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]nute, 2003-06-07 07:34 pm UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]carolinecrane, 2003-06-07 08:06 pm UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]aruru, 2003-06-07 08:26 pm UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]carolinecrane, 2003-06-07 08:35 pm UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]aruru, 2003-06-07 11:47 pm UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]carolinecrane, 2003-06-08 01:01 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]aruru, 2003-06-08 01:19 am UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]aruru, 2003-06-07 08:18 pm UTC
Re: The point that was originally trying to be made... - [info]pollymel, 2003-06-10 08:48 am UTC

[info]moonjaguar
2003-06-07 09:13 am UTC (link)
Won't all that backpedaling strip the gears?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]zannechaos, 2003-06-07 02:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-06-07 08:41 pm UTC


 
   
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