I've been waiting for Keenspot wank.
Keenspot is a webcomic company. They host both Keenspot and Keenspace, often referred to as 'Spot and 'Space respectively. Space is free to all, anyone can start up a webcomic there; if you become popular enough and pass some mystic test by the admins of Keenspot, you get 'Spotted - promoted. You get your own domain name (this is how you tell a comic has been 'Spotted) and some other goodies.

In return for the hosting, every 'Spot and 'Space comic must have a newsbox displayed on their index page; it advertises a different 'Spot or 'Space comic every day. The wank starts when one anonymous artist removes the newsbox advertising Friendly Hostility by Sandra Delete, a comic that's about two gay guys in a relationship; as I understand it, there's more to the comic, but it's hardly germane to the wank.

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I say it starts there; almost immediately, it veers to a personal vendetta between the Crosby brothers and Scott Kurtz. (That's as much explanation as you get; everything else is explained in-thread, if you read far enough.)



The fourth post after the opening post was an outright flame. Isn't that some sort of record? Halfway down the first page he's publicly disowned by the other admins of Keenspot (and Gav is the big boss there), which is just priceless. They don't really get back to the original newsbox thing until page 7, when someone posts criticizing the original decision to pull the newsbox. Pupkin agrees. Darkshive posts a timeline of the thread so far. And then... it's back to the flaming. I'm writing this as I read through the thread, and it fucking amuses me that everyone I recognize (apart from A Man In Black) is a complete and utter moron. This is the funniest damn shit ever. The accusations of lying go back and forth so many times my head is spinning.

we have: random proposals of marriage to Bobby Crosby (pupkin)! random kitten attacks! tangent being a moron! random asides in which pupkin requests an avatar from the person he previously flamed! bunnyThor flaming both sides! scott kurtz posts the most bizarre graphic ever! random Cowboy Bebop references! Scott Kurtz almost-but-not-quite violates Snacky's Law! random psychoanalysis! random Harry Potter references! random images! (the randomness, it burns!) that annoying Special Olympics graphic every idiot uses in internet arguments now! a whole post about the Berlin Wall! debates about the true meaning of the phrase free speech! and much, much, much more.


A short Who's Who of those I recognize in chronological order, more or less:

Gav: Original cofounder of Keenspot, writer of Nukees (which is popular in its own right)
Pupkin: Bobby Crosby, Chris Crosby's annoying little brother. Indefatiguable troll, to the point where he had Chris make him a Britney Spears fanboard on the Keenspot forums just so he'd always have somewhere to troll. And I've been registered longer than he has. Ha!
Chris Crosby: Cofounder of Keenspot. Writer of Superiosity. Brother of Bobby Crosby (poor guy. )
Tangent: All around wanker. Er, I mean, frequent poster and slave of Maritza Campos. Known to fall all over himself to kiss her ass (see page 7.)
Darkshive: Dan Shive, creator of El Goonish Shive. Usually knows better than to get involved in this sort of thing.
Walky: Creator of It's Walky
Kurtz: Scott Kurtz, writer of PvP. Unaffilated with Keenspot to the point of bashing them on occasion due to a longstanding feud between him and Chris Crosby over a now-defunct site, BigPanda. Has an absolutely inexplicable feud with Bobby Crosby.
Maritza Campos: writer of CRFH!!!, a webcomic mostly known for its fanatically devoted fanbase.
Jamie: Jamie writes Clan of the Cats, a comic about a family of witch-wereleopards, I believe. It's been a while. Chelsea is his main character.
josh l.: Josh Lesnick. Previously wrote Wendy, now writes Go-Girly. Was famous for the attractive anime-style women in his comics. (Personally, I didn't see it, but YMMV.)
carsonfire: Carson Fire, who writes Elf Life. He's been around for-fucking-ever, and has the tact of an rhino, which means he's sparked kerfluffles before - mostly about paying for comics/prints/etc, etc. Despite this, I quite like him, he's a good guy.
Matt Wilson: Creator of High Score and Bonus Stage. Known for somewhat lesser wankery on the Toon Zone boards. Has the best suggestions ever.
NotoriousMEQ: Meaghan, well known (at least to me) for Eat the Roses, which was fairly well done. She's a Spotter.
rkmilholland: Writer of Something Positive. Need I say more?

a long and somewhat rambly recap, including some of my favorite bits:

Pupkin: I don't turn anything into a flame war -- it's people like you and BunnyThor who do that because they can't stop themselves from chiming in about something that has nothing to do with them, usually because they think they'll get brownie points by doing so from others who they think agree with them, as in "I think I speak for everyone here when I say that pumpkin puppies are embarrassing, blah blah blah, everyone love me now." I was talking to Kurtz, not you. You can go away now.

and

I also say anything I want and the consequences be damned and you're mocking me and calling me an embarrassment for that, while calling Kurtz an "ok guy." Clearly the difference here is that you're kissing the ass of a guy with a ton of readers.

no, clearly the difference here is that you are an idiot, and Darkshive is, apparently, not. At least not today.

and then he comes up with this gem:

What's your point with all that? I've never once read a comic by Willis. I know he's more embarrassing than me because he said I was embarrassing, which was uncalled for and embarrassing.

later, Kurtz zings pupkin with this:

You keep talking about creepy emails I sent you. Are you referring to my responses to your death threat emails? Because that's the only time I remember emailing you. I believe you threatened to kill me for accusing your brother of being a racist.

and with this, he manages to get the whole webcomic community involved:

But...everyone with a webcomic is doing worse than me. Except for the Penny-Arcade guys and I LOATHE them.

PA has a ton of fan(atics). I see an invasion coming, whether he was joking or not. and then Chris Crosby zings back:

I'm guessing you were joking (at least about your loathing of Tycho and Gabe), but if Extreme Tracking stats are to be believed, CTRL+ALT+DEL is also doing somewhat better than you (at least in terms of website traffic).

or not:

Even if those stats are accurate (which, Extreme tracking stats never match my internal server tracking data), I'm still doing better than the CTRL+ALT+DEL guys.

And because of that, I wish them well.

wow. good sport there. there's some gentle mockery from other posters down the page, I can't believe I've gotten through ten pages of this crap, holy crap, Carson Fire gets involved, sweet. Some more 'Spot toonists show up, and then, Tangent:

I'm posting because I'm an annoying git!

You never said a truer word.

At this point, Penny Arcade links to the thread. The link itself is not terribly wanky, nor upset. Back in the 'Spot thread, bruk's Kurtz the Hutt felt picture deserves a mention all on its own.

They're civil for about a whole page, mostly comic promotion. And then the flames start again! yay!

pupkin: He's the one who has no argument and just repeats the same lies and tells some new ones and makes childish jokes.

Riiight. Also, MolTARE wins the whole fucking internet with this:

I think the relevant phrase here is: "You think you're funny. But you're not."

PA fans stir shit up, cluelessly or not, etc, etc, everyone goes back and forth for a while. It bogs down insanely right here, and I would have given up, but my source tells me there's better coming.

Zing:

Taciturnity: I apologize for having a vocabulary.

In apologizing for his AIM screenname being the same as one of pupkin's alleged harassers. and passengerpigeon sums up the whole thread rather sanely:

[HoboMaster wrote:
He rants at people, refuses to back up his claims, and doesn't apply logic to any of his arguments.]

What claims? What arguments? The whole thread is people saying "Bobby, you're an asshole," in varying ways, and Bobby saying "No, I'm not." There's a little bit where Bobby says Kurtz did all this crazy-ass shit and Kurtz completely denies it, but since they're both talking about stuff that is essentially totally unverifiable, it's ridiculous to either of them to produce any sort of evidence. Mostly they were talking about email. What claims and arguments are you suggesting Bobby made? Mostly, actually, people keep saying "Bobby, you won't back up your claims," and Bobby consistently says in response, "What claims did I not back up? Provide specifics," and then they don't. This happened at least once in this thread already, and I'm pretty sure it happened twice.

I'm really interested in what claims you feel Bobby has made that could actually receive meaningful substantiation. Mostly, it seems to me, he's been speaking his mind and occasionally talking about personal stuff that, again, can't really be supported -- he can't drag the boom operator for Enterprise onto this thread to post "yeah, I know him."

Shortly after that, Scott Kurtz posts a new rant on his site (it's currently at the top of the page. It's titled "You got some gay in my newsbox", in case it moves.)

In this rant, he vilifies the post he originally went to the forum to praise.

Innocentbystander9 wins for being the most oblivious ever:

I am an avid webcomic fan, I read several keenspot comics and I also read pvp, not to mention that penny arcade brought me here. (Yes, i'm a pa zombie, I goes where gabe tells me...) I have read all 20 pages of this drivel and feel I am qualified to make the following comments:

Bobby: I will agree with you that you have brought many new people into your community. But you lashing out at Scott your first post was quite uncalled for and out of the blue. If your intent was sarcasm, that was not clear. I would be offended if my first post was met with such... cattiness. Also, you use a very limited vocabulary. (Key words: lie, lies, liar, moron, morons,huh,obviously) Try using different words. Mix up your insults, produce more evidence and use better logic (I did like your murder trial argument.) When people are pointing out your logical fallacies, you need to re-examine your arguments. You sure have a fiery passion for things which is good sometimes, but you should also learn when to let things sit.

You are not required by any federal, state, or local law to respond to every person that speaks ill of you. Ignore them and they will probably fizzle out over time. To generate 20+ pages in 2 days is a bit out of control if you ask me. You should just take a deep breath, count to 10, and then reply instead of flying off the handle. When scott left around page 6 or 7, you should have made a summation statement and let it wind down from there.

Scott: Scott, Scott, Scott... I am sincerely diappointed in you. I normally value what you say, and read your front page and rants, but why must you always be the king of controversy? From actually getting a print cartoonist to riducle you in his strip, and now your involvment in this... have you nothing better to do?? Mind your own webcomic, you don't need to stick your nose into everyone elses business. You really should get your facts straight before you make such accusatory remarks. If you had merely emailed the Cosbys about their financial handling, this whole public display could have been avoided and taken care of privately. DO SOME FACT CHECKING. Then if things don't check out or you are met with resistence, THEN take it to the public forums and your rants. I know that your first post here was quite innocent and constructive, then pup kind of did a panda attack on you, but did you have to keep responding? At times you were civil and lucid, but at times you were beligerent and quite immature. At first I took your side but over time I found myself agreeing with pup more than you. Thank you for spelling out some of your arguments and showing your side at one point, but just when things were quieting down those "P.S. BOBBY LOVES PVP!!" comments and the skull/pupkin image just set pupkin on fire again.(See how his avatar burns with rage?) How does bobby's opinion of PVP even relate?? Do you just ENJOY ruffling peoples feathers? Seeing how people react to you? I have lost some of my respect for you. Oh, and I want to cancel my skull plushie order until you correct your rant.*

You both should strive to be the mature one and end it. Oh, and give history a rest! Events that happened YEARS ago were dug up in this thread. Don't live in the past. "Never look back, they might be gaining on you."

And to the people of keenspot forums: STOP USING NESTED QUOTES!! MY GOD DO YOU HAVE TO QUOTE ENTIRE POSTS WHEN ONLY ONE OR TWO SENTENCES RELATE TO YOURS!!!! (Not as bad as pa though. yikes.) Your argument does not need to depend on the one above it! Look at my post! Logically sound and no quotes!

OH, I guess I should at least mention the origin of this whole fiasco... people should not be offended by a little ad image. Besides, demanding it removed to please you will also take it away from others who would have liked it. (Unless it is something so blatent, or personally offensive that nothing good could come of it. The burning witch is a good example.) Do you know how many sites I browse through everyday? How much offensive text and images I see? I just scroll my mouse wheel on by. JUST IGNORE IT. Don't honor it with your click, plain and simple. Plus, if you are offended by that little image, you must be a real prude, given that there are much worse things going on in the world today. The fact that I registered here just to make one post is a RARITY for me. After reading for 3 hours I just wanted to justify my time and make a few points to admonish some people.

Thank you, admins, for not locking this post. That only sends everyone home unhappy. Although I must say I have rarely seen such passive administration. Maybe some banning/locking threats from management would have kept peoples temperatures in check, even if you never intended to make good on them. Just to remind people you're here.

Thanks to everyone for a humorous read and for sucking 3 hours of my life away. This will probably be my first and last post, but I'll check tommorrow and maybe follow up. Gosh, I hope not.

*=Just kidding! I havent ordered a plushie. But you should correct the rant anyway.
_________________
Sincerely Yours...
--R

DRPK goes off about the Berlin Wall, and mindstick starts talking about North Koreans. Why? Got me. Did I miss a Godwin's Law infraction or something?

JonnWood made me go all giggly:

PrimaDonna. Mispelling the words you're indicatively an expert on further drops your credibility. And the image of a geek in The Madonna Bra is too horrifying to contemplate any further.

And then a second felt picture from bruk! this one depicting Kurtz the Hutt... doing something. I think those are the PA guys he's eating. I'm not quite sure. And we almost-but-not-quite break Godwin's Law on page 25. Oh my god I want to stab Tangent in the face.

And they digress to Harry Potter for about a page and a half, interrupted in the middle by a violation of snacky's law. And then Kurtz comes back! and it all goes downhill from there.

THEN THERE IS THE RANDOM POLITICAL BULLSHIT. WHAT THE HELL. that came out of fucking nowhere.

And everything goes downhill from there.

some additional links:

the original newsbox
Sandra Delete on the timeline of what she saw of the kerfluffle
Maritza Campos in snarkoleptics about said newsbox kerfluffle
a blog entry by websnark, and a retraction of same
a poll goes bing! for wankery

frankly, I think everyone involved loses. Everyone.

ETA 3/18: the main wank is bahleeted.