(Post a new comment)

	(Anonymous) 2005-04-25 10:05 am UTC (link)
	But tanacawyr hates wank (http://www.livejournal.com/users/tanacawyr/566158.html). You'd think that after she specifically asked for details of the original Crystal Gamgee wank (http://www.livejournal.com/users/tanacawyr/564333.html) and was well aware that it had generated 76 pages of comments, she might think twice about starting more. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:15 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:36 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-28 07:59 pm UTC

	crickets 2005-04-25 10:13 am UTC (link)
	Hee! Okay, wanketeers--is this really a sketch? My gut reaction is, 'What? Hell no!' but since I'm no artist and no great shakes with the PS/PSP... ::grabs life vest just in case:: (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - crickets, 2005-04-25 10:28 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:41 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:47 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:53 am UTC

(no subject) - crickets, 2005-04-25 10:52 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 07:02 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:31 am UTC

(no subject) - arabel, 2005-04-25 12:21 pm UTC

(no subject) - telophase, 2005-04-25 05:22 pm UTC

(no subject) - telophase, 2005-04-25 05:23 pm UTC

(no subject) - arabel, 2005-04-25 05:46 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:34 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:39 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:47 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:29 am UTC

(no subject) - pyratejenni, 2005-04-25 05:45 pm UTC

(no subject) - phosfate, 2005-04-25 06:10 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 07:40 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 09:49 pm UTC

(no subject) - allison, 2005-04-25 07:25 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:03 pm UTC

(no subject) - greenling, 2005-04-25 10:14 pm UTC

ataniell93 2005-04-25 10:49 am UTC (link)

Okay, it's like this. I have never met black_hound face to face, but a lot of people that I have met face to face have met her face to face. And when we travel, we stay at each other's houses/visit et cetera. I'm sure if I wanted to go out that way I'd have crash space, and commodorified has been over here visiting. So when these people all say they were in the big room o' sketches, I believe it, just like all the people who've been here and report that I have rooms full of toys and bookshelves lining the halls. Now, because I am totally friends with these people, even though I am not a big Age of Sail fangirl, I have been getting linked to BH's art for ages and ages now, and I do adore it muchly because it's good art of hot guys. And it's like this. Much of BH's art is nudes. Much of it is NC17. So if these are photomanips, where the hell is she getting the photos? Who's been holding out? I totally don't believe that there are all these sekrit photos of Jamie and sam and Paul nekkid and Doing It that nobody knows about! (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:50 am UTC

(no subject) - ataniell93, 2005-04-25 10:55 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:57 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:26 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:37 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:48 am UTC

... - ataniell93, 2005-04-25 11:54 am UTC

... - kyuuketsukirui, 2005-04-25 12:02 pm UTC

... - mistressrenet, 2005-04-25 02:19 pm UTC

... - eljuno, 2005-04-26 07:26 am UTC

... - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 06:13 pm UTC

... - allison, 2005-04-25 07:34 pm UTC

... - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:35 pm UTC

... - allison, 2005-04-25 10:49 pm UTC

(no subject) - phosfate, 2005-04-25 06:14 pm UTC

(no subject) - ashenmote, 2005-04-25 07:12 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:54 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 05:33 pm UTC

If you think I'm a sock clearly you have not been paying attention :) - ataniell93, 2005-04-25 07:25 pm UTC

Re: If you think I'm a sock clearly you have not been paying attention :) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:15 pm UTC

Re: If you think I'm a sock clearly you have not been paying attention :) - elanor_durall, 2005-04-26 10:03 am UTC

Re: If you think I'm a sock clearly you have not been paying attention :) - rackhamrose, 2005-04-26 07:00 pm UTC

Re: If you think I'm a sock clearly you have not been paying attention :) - elanor_durall, 2005-04-26 11:22 pm UTC

... - rackhamrose, 2005-04-27 12:24 am UTC

... - elanor_durall, 2005-04-29 05:52 am UTC

Re: If you think I'm a sock clearly you have not been paying attention :) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-26 04:40 pm UTC

(no subject) - soleta, 2005-04-25 07:37 pm UTC

(Anonymous) 2005-04-25 10:57 am UTC (link)

Wah. Yes. Tanacawyr (AKA me) hates wank. But if the technical discussion of these images that I want to have happens actually happens here, as it appears to be doing, then I solemnly swear that I will eat whatever flavor and preparation of crow that the denizens of f_w see fit to prepare for me. I only ask that it be prepared with thai peppers and some steamed rice. The first image that triggered my suspicion was the following: http://www.io.com/~cortese/ljsupport/pic.jpg The source photograph was the following: http://www.io.com/~cortese/ljsupport/jamie_m06.jpg The source photo started showing up on various people's LJs on March 4th of this year. The subsequent sketch was posted less than a day later. I have no idea whether or not the artist saw the photo before that as it might have been on JamieBamberJapan.com for some time prior. Okay, you guys are the experts. And again, I hereby solemnly vow that I will happily eat as much crow as you like if f_w can tease apart the aspects of this sketch that made me squint a bit at it. "Realization" was the most recent one, and that also made me suspicious, but this one was the one that induced my first headtilt. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:03 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:36 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:45 am UTC

(no subject) - cesare, 2005-04-25 02:47 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:56 am UTC

Fascinating. - tiasian, 2005-04-25 02:22 pm UTC

Re: Fascinating. - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 02:38 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 05:36 pm UTC

(no subject) - isobelsomething, 2005-04-26 01:52 am UTC

(no subject) - kyuuketsukirui, 2005-04-25 11:58 am UTC

(no subject) - arabel, 2005-04-25 04:05 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:14 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:15 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:38 am UTC

(no subject) - arabel, 2005-04-25 12:23 pm UTC

Ragin' like Nagel. - windex_junkie, 2005-04-25 11:32 am UTC

Re: Ragin' like Nagel. - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:39 am UTC

Tracing and gridding are ordinary techniques - dodyskin, 2005-04-26 02:08 pm UTC

(no subject) - cesare, 2005-04-25 11:48 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:53 am UTC

(no subject) - cesare, 2005-04-25 01:17 pm UTC

(no subject) - phosfate, 2005-04-25 06:18 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 12:12 pm UTC

(no subject) - cesare, 2005-04-25 01:14 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 02:10 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 02:13 pm UTC

(no subject) - elanor_durall, 2005-04-25 02:36 pm UTC

(no subject) - bitca, 2005-04-25 11:02 pm UTC

(no subject) - aloysius, 2005-04-25 01:03 pm UTC

(no subject) - sevoi, 2005-04-25 05:12 pm UTC

(no subject) - allison, 2005-04-25 07:55 pm UTC

(no subject) - pink_rhombus, 2005-04-25 08:18 pm UTC

(no subject) - heddychaa, 2005-04-25 10:35 pm UTC

(no subject) - ashenmote, 2005-04-26 01:55 am UTC

(no subject) - allison, 2005-04-26 02:34 am UTC

(no subject) - allison, 2005-04-26 02:50 am UTC

(no subject) - ashenmote, 2005-04-26 03:40 am UTC

(no subject) - allison, 2005-04-26 06:03 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:06 pm UTC

Other Drawings - (Anonymous), 2005-04-26 03:16 am UTC

Re: Other Drawings - (Anonymous), 2005-04-28 06:47 am UTC

	cjk 2005-04-25 11:02 am UTC (link)
	Oh, bollocks. This is one comm/group of people where I'd never thought I'd see wank. :( (Reply to this)(Thread)

We wank - jat_sapphire, 2005-04-25 04:15 pm UTC

Re: We wank - cjk, 2005-04-25 04:27 pm UTC

Re: We wank - jat_sapphire, 2005-04-25 05:48 pm UTC

Re: We wank - jat_sapphire, 2005-04-25 05:53 pm UTC

	firebad 2005-04-25 11:16 am UTC (link)
	Look at this. And then compare it to this. In conclusion: Bitch, please. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - kyuuketsukirui, 2005-04-25 11:20 am UTC

(no subject) - jamac, 2005-04-25 11:45 am UTC

(no subject) - crickets, 2005-04-25 12:13 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 12:53 pm UTC

(no subject) - jamac, 2005-04-25 02:26 pm UTC

(no subject) - fairestcat, 2005-04-25 06:40 pm UTC

(no subject) - entelodont, 2005-04-25 06:59 pm UTC

... - fairestcat, 2005-04-25 07:13 pm UTC

(no subject) - allison, 2005-04-25 08:06 pm UTC

(no subject) - allison, 2005-04-25 08:06 pm UTC

(no subject) - entelodont, 2005-04-25 07:02 pm UTC

(no subject) - gorogoro, 2005-04-25 07:08 pm UTC

OT - ruaki, 2005-04-25 10:31 pm UTC

Re: OT - gorogoro, 2005-04-25 11:38 pm UTC

(no subject) - heddychaa, 2005-04-25 10:47 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-28 08:08 pm UTC

... - heddychaa, 2005-04-28 09:25 pm UTC

Tracing - elanor_durall, 2005-04-26 10:19 am UTC

random icon love! - judyhazeleyes, 2005-04-25 10:48 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-26 05:37 am UTC

	windex_junkie 2005-04-25 11:38 am UTC (link)
	She's probably not manipping. Just tracing. Which will keep your artistic integrity totally okay as long as you use CHARCOAL OMG. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:45 am UTC

(no subject) - windex_junkie, 2005-04-25 12:19 pm UTC

(no subject) - kyuuketsukirui, 2005-04-25 12:57 pm UTC

(no subject) - windex_junkie, 2005-04-25 01:28 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 01:05 pm UTC

(no subject) - windex_junkie, 2005-04-25 01:31 pm UTC

10 minutes Photoshop - cesare, 2005-04-25 12:19 pm UTC

Re: 10 minutes Photoshop - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 12:57 pm UTC

(Deleted post)

Re: 10 minutes Photoshop - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 01:48 pm UTC

... - cesare, 2005-04-25 02:43 pm UTC

... - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 03:03 pm UTC

Re: 10 minutes Photoshop - cesare, 2005-04-25 01:27 pm UTC

Mine: 15 minutes, Photoshop - arabel, 2005-04-25 03:30 pm UTC

Re: Mine: 15 minutes, Photoshop - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 04:08 pm UTC

Re: Mine: 15 minutes, Photoshop - arabel, 2005-04-25 04:34 pm UTC

... - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 09:31 pm UTC

... - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 09:34 pm UTC

red_eft 2005-04-25 11:42 am UTC (link)

If it weren't for all the people swearing to have seen sketches in progress, I would bet a very substantial amount of money that those were manips. Not that that sort of texture can't be acheived in charcoal, but it doesn't seem to *match* the rest of the texture. There would be smudges in places there aren't smudges, if that makes any sense. I say this having a familiarity with both charcoal and photoshop, and it really looks like she does some bits of the sketch with charcoal, then uses filters on a photo and puts them together. Hnn. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:55 am UTC

(no subject) - fairestcat, 2005-04-25 06:50 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:55 am UTC

red_eft 2005-04-25 12:04 pm UTC (link)

I'm calling manip. Look especially at the shadow on the cheek. I've copied things from photographs before. You just don't get that exact. There are things that shift and change, even in a very closely referenced drawing. Heck, even in a *tracing* things wouldn't be that exact. And if you look at the image overall, it's really clear there are two very different styles here. If you can get that really soft, delicate shading on the cheek and eye (which is *really fricking hard*), then why wouldn't you apply the same technique to the hair, instead of the very dark outlines that clash? Well... because it's not in the original photo. She may do sketches- she may have done pieces all in charcoal in the past which people have on their walls- but this is pretty clearly a charcoal sketch with a manip added in. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - crickets, 2005-04-25 12:21 pm UTC

(no subject) - pyratejenni, 2005-04-25 06:00 pm UTC

(no subject) - arabel, 2005-04-25 12:38 pm UTC

The animated version - enoh, 2005-04-25 04:13 pm UTC

My strate iz pastede on yay! - rhi_silverflame, 2005-04-25 04:26 pm UTC

Re: My strate iz pastede on yay! - nekoneko, 2005-04-25 07:36 pm UTC

(no subject) - alpheratz, 2005-04-25 04:58 pm UTC

(no subject) - rhi_silverflame, 2005-04-26 02:52 am UTC

(no subject) - sideofzen, 2005-04-26 07:57 am UTC

(no subject) - rhi_silverflame, 2005-04-26 08:00 am UTC

(no subject) - crickets, 2005-04-26 08:17 am UTC

(no subject) - rhi_silverflame, 2005-04-26 08:24 am UTC

(no subject) - phosfate, 2005-04-25 06:29 pm UTC

(no subject) - allison, 2005-04-25 08:13 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 09:20 pm UTC

(no subject) - red_eft, 2005-04-25 10:35 pm UTC

(no subject) - phosfate, 2005-04-26 01:10 am UTC

(no subject) - cesare, 2005-04-26 03:47 am UTC

... - phosfate, 2005-04-26 04:27 pm UTC

	gal_montag 2005-04-25 12:18 pm UTC (link)
	I vote manip. Her sketchings are awfully perfect, and all the weird and harsh looking shading on the hair while the faces and bodies are beautiful. (Reply to this)

cesare 2005-04-25 12:33 pm UTC (link)

Flashback time. Here was the tutorial where I showed how to use Photoshop to get the sketch effect: The Photoshop Sketch Tutorial from the days of Crystalwank. I do think it's worth pointing out that... - I think it's fairly likely this artist is using something like a projector or a lightbox to trace photos in charcoal. If she's a graphic designer, it's a common tool of the trade. - People are saying that they've seen this artwork in person, whereas Crystal had sketchbooks conveniently 'stolen' and no one who could vouch for the art. Crystal also claimed vaingloriously to be using no references at all, whereas this artist is much more up front about basing her work on existing pics. - Crystal was trying to sell her 'sketches'. Is Black_Hound trying to bilk people? No one seems to be complaining about commission fees. Just a few things to keep in mind before boarding the "omg it's just like Crystalwank! they must be fakes-- get out the ropes!" bandwagon. Not that anyone here was scanning the horizon for hangin' trees, but I just thought I'd mention. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 05:43 pm UTC

(no subject) - pfeffermuse, 2005-04-25 08:02 pm UTC

	lukita 2005-04-25 02:00 pm UTC (link)
	For someone who can shade the face and hair beautifully, the clothing looks like shit. I vote manip as well or at least tracing. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-28 08:13 pm UTC

...? - lukita, 2005-04-29 06:18 am UTC

	(Anonymous) 2005-04-25 02:16 pm UTC (link)
	*tip-toes around the wet spot* It seems like the wank has spilled over here. (Reply to this)

	pigwidgeon 2005-04-25 02:24 pm UTC (link)
	Wow, her art is really boring. Yay photographs! I can draw just like them!!1 (Reply to this)

	ashenmote 2005-04-25 02:55 pm UTC (link)
	I have my opinions concerning black_hound's art, tanacawyr's ways of addressing the matter and Marna's ambitious attempt at drowning this post in tl;dr comments. But why should I voice them when I can have ten times the fun just by shouting FWINAC? (Reply to this)(Thread)

(Deleted post)

Re: I suck at acronyms - ashenmote, 2005-04-25 04:24 pm UTC

(Deleted post)

Re: It's NOT?! - ashenmote, 2005-04-25 06:04 pm UTC

... - (Anonymous), 2005-04-26 02:57 am UTC

Re: It's NOT?! - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 06:55 pm UTC

Re: It's NOT?! - sarracenia, 2005-04-25 08:26 pm UTC

Re: I suck at acronyms - wankprophet, 2005-04-25 07:35 pm UTC

Re: I suck at acronyms - ashenmote, 2005-04-25 07:41 pm UTC

... - wankprophet, 2005-04-25 07:55 pm UTC

(no subject) - cesare, 2005-04-25 05:31 pm UTC

(no subject) - telophase, 2005-04-25 07:45 pm UTC

(no subject) - sevoi, 2005-04-26 12:36 am UTC

(no subject) - telophase, 2005-04-26 12:47 am UTC

(no subject) - wankprophet, 2005-04-26 06:20 am UTC

(no subject) - tiasian, 2005-04-26 11:28 am UTC

(no subject) - charmian, 2005-04-25 11:53 pm UTC

(no subject) - phosfate, 2005-04-26 12:43 am UTC

(no subject) - cimorene111, 2005-04-26 09:25 am UTC

(no subject) - dodyskin, 2005-04-26 12:45 am UTC

	etcetera_cat 2005-04-25 04:48 pm UTC (link)
	By no means an expert... but there certainly seems to be some degree of manipulation to several of those pictures. Not entirely sure I agree with the way that the comm mod's dealt with the matter, but frankly? It's wanky, I don't care about much else >^_^< . (Reply to this)

	boadicea 2005-04-25 05:59 pm UTC (link)
	My absolute favoritest part of this wank? Marna losing her shit about 20 times in this post and responding to damn near everyone who explained why they thought black_hound shouldn't be passing her art off as actual drawings. I wonder if black_hound is watching this and cringing, thinking "Please stop helping me." (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - fairestcat, 2005-04-25 07:03 pm UTC

(no subject) - boadicea, 2005-04-25 07:28 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:20 pm UTC

(no subject) - boadicea, 2005-04-25 10:32 pm UTC

(no subject) - telophase, 2005-04-25 07:52 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 10:22 pm UTC

	moonjaguar 2005-04-25 07:17 pm UTC (link)
	Too many wanky people. I can't look. (Reply to this)

(Anonymous) 2005-04-25 08:23 pm UTC (link)

Said to Marna: Frankly, the sort of reaction you're showing is exactly how people who've been duped in other places have reacted to these sorts of situations. black_hound may not be pulling a VB, but by reacting the way you have, you're looking more and more like you're pulling an Orangeblossom. Somehow it always makes me happy when comparisons to Victoria Bitter get made. Ah, precious memories that I'll treasure forever *happy sigh* There should be a jurisimprudence law about making comparisons to VB and Crystal, but bugger me if I know exactly what it should say. (Reply to this)

	arielchan 2005-04-25 09:19 pm UTC (link)
	Crystalwank 2005? Only a little more than a year after cw2004, too. (Reply to this)

kookaburra 2005-04-25 10:54 pm UTC (link)

Hmmm... I'm withholding judgement, but some of those images are very, very fishy. However, I would like to link to an old fanart sketch of my own which shares some stylistic similarities to Ms. Hound's, and explain how such things might be in a perfectly legitimate image. Of course, what raises a red flag to me is that she hasn't made a post explaining her process for the disputed images. My picture of on Dominic Monaghan: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/kookaburra/domsigned.jpg (please note- this is a an old sketch, and the quality is not my best, but it's what was available when a friend told me to grab something to get autographed) The lines are dark and heavy, because they were created by copier toner on architect's vellum. I copied my original sketch onto this vellum. The reason for that is that toner is not removed by turpenoid, which I used to smear on a layer of charcoal. I then lifted out the highlights with a kneadable eraser. It's a fun way to get quick results, and some of those images look like she might have used a similar technique. Any way, just this art student's 2c. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-26 12:09 am UTC

(no subject) - kookaburra, 2005-04-26 12:48 am UTC

	random_dent 2005-04-25 11:24 pm UTC (link)
	Is it wrong that I'm very, very proud of the sheer quality of wank one of my fandoms has produced? I mean, long discussions, long words, pseudo-intellectualism. Ah. Lovely. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - moonjaguar, 2005-04-25 11:43 pm UTC

crystalgamgee 2005-04-25 11:44 pm UTC (link)

I couldn't help but comment, not just for the fact that this wank is related to my own in the year past ( has it really been that long ) but that I really wanted an excuse to finally use my journalfen account. The argument that I want to touch on, was stated in various places at both the lj account where the post originated from and comments made here. A few have brought up the fact ( mostly people coming in for the defense of the one being wanked ) that these sketches couldn't be manips because the ending result wasn't based on any existing photo. Well, having done a 'sketch' myself so it wouldn't appear to be based off a photo when in fact it was, it's easy for me to tell when help from an outside source ( such as tracing, a lightbox, projector, ect. ) has possibly been used in a drawing. Kinda like a con being able to unmask another con because they can recognize their techniques from ones they have used themselves. Earlier someone even posted a fading transparency of an original sketch over top of the suspected photo and proved in fact that too many facial structures lined up. This was done repeatedly with my own work, thus proving it was bogus. As for the charcoal coming off on the hands of those who have touched the drawings, vowing for them being real... if you open up photoshop, adjust a photo accordingly, print out a base and sketch over it, of course charcoal or pencil will rub off, dust off, ect. because it IS pencil. That is what makes the fake seem even more convincing. It's just pencil placed over an outline and it can be done easily and fairly convincingly making it seem as though it was all done from scratch. I even did one myself based off of a manip I made earlier this month to show that you can make a manip, then adjust it in photoshop to make an outline, pull the outline onto another layer and adjust the opacity and erase parts of the image, print out final image then sketch over the outline getting this right here. And of course if you line the sketch up with the photo, it will match because it was 'maniped' from the original to get the outline which I sketched over. It's not all that glorious because I did this quickly, but it shows that you can indeed make a 'drawing' look more original simply by rendering it from a manip you've made. Sorry to bust into the wank, but just wanted to state an opinion on the matter seeing how it's related to something I have pulled myself and have an eye for spotting when someone else does it. Feel free to pelt me stones if you must. * ducks for cover * (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-25 11:57 pm UTC

(no subject) - crystalgamgee, 2005-04-26 12:02 am UTC

(no subject) - crickets, 2005-04-26 12:19 am UTC

(no subject) - crystalgamgee, 2005-04-26 12:30 am UTC

(no subject) - boadicea, 2005-04-26 01:52 am UTC

... - crickets, 2005-04-28 09:35 am UTC

(no subject) - pseudelight, 2005-04-28 12:59 am UTC

(no subject) - crystalgamgee, 2005-04-28 02:50 am UTC

(no subject) - crystalgamgee, 2005-04-26 12:42 am UTC

(no subject) - crickets, 2005-04-26 12:08 am UTC

(no subject) - crystalgamgee, 2005-04-26 12:13 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-26 12:26 am UTC

(no subject) - crystalgamgee, 2005-04-26 12:32 am UTC

(no subject) - favyan, 2005-04-26 02:10 am UTC

(no subject) - crystalgamgee, 2005-04-26 02:13 am UTC

(no subject) - firebad, 2005-04-26 03:54 am UTC

(no subject) - crystalgamgee, 2005-04-26 03:56 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-26 05:32 am UTC

(no subject) - crystalgamgee, 2005-04-26 05:37 am UTC

(no subject) - aloysius, 2005-04-27 02:11 am UTC

(no subject) - crystalgamgee, 2005-04-27 03:31 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-28 11:29 am UTC

	charmian 2005-04-25 11:50 pm UTC (link)
	0_o Is the consensus that you can't really tell without looking at the physical drawings? So then, er, as amused as I am by f_w being the expert witness panel, (so f_w is better than the comm itself! They're taking over!!!), um, what is the point? (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-26 12:18 am UTC

(no subject) - charmian, 2005-04-26 12:23 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-04-26 12:35 am UTC

(no subject) - charmian, 2005-04-26 12:54 am UTC

(no subject) - phosfate, 2005-04-26 12:48 am UTC

(no subject) - charmian, 2005-04-26 12:56 am UTC

(no subject) - phosfate, 2005-04-26 12:58 am UTC

(no subject) - charmian, 2005-04-26 01:00 am UTC

... - phosfate, 2005-04-26 01:05 am UTC

... - charmian, 2005-04-26 02:56 am UTC

... - moonjaguar, 2005-04-26 07:02 am UTC

	(Anonymous) 2005-04-26 02:05 am UTC (link)
	Using the 'which side seems less batshit insane?' rule of thumb, I'll just point at black_hound's 'drawings' and continue to laugh. ~An Amused Lurker (Reply to this)