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NM (![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} narcissam) wrote in ![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/community.gif){kind=small} fandom_wank,@ 2005-05-06 12:16:00 |
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Mere Stupidity - Narnia wank
I have a love-hate relationship with the Chronicles of Narnia going back many years, so therefore I'm quite interested in this upcoming movie. Even to the point of reading the IMDB boards. So I discover that any attempts to talk about religious/allegorical aspects to the Narnia books is immediately taken over by a poster named buffy 666who doesn't like Christians or Republicans.
She'll post something like this:
Blah blah blah. You know the religious right in this country are going to be promoting this movie like the second coming (pardon the pun).
I mean, I'm sure Fox News will enter a partnership deal with the producers of the film and will demonize anyone who tries to criticize its insidious relgious underpinnings.
And then everyone will engage in a frenzied battle about the Bible and forget C.S. Lewis.
Looking at Buffy's post history, all her posts on IMDB are like this:
Clint Eastwood Re: He's a filthy republican
Sarah Michelle Gellar Re: She's not a REPUBLICAN.. thankfully
Jerry Falwell Re: Racist, sexist, homophobe
The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (2005) Re: Clarification that conservatives lie habitually
Alexander (2004) Re: Christian FUNDAMENTALISM killed this movie
You get the picture. Lots of wank but little of it fandom enough to engage our attention.
Until this priceless thread. It's got a lot of off-topic wank about the Bible but some wonderful stuff about fiction and religion.
I'll try to paste some thread highlights, but I've too many favourite bits.
Buffy 666 begins: Now, I guess I missed the Christian references of Narnia growing up, but it appears C S. Lewis was an evangelical Christian, attempting to preach through fantasy. Now all of the crazy right-wing evangelicals are out in force, ready to support this religious crap....
"Walt Disney Co. has begun to court church groups to secure their support for their upcoming film version of C.S. Lewis's The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. According to some reports, the studio has hired a PR firm with strong connections among the evangelical movement and has already seen positive results from the move. Jim Burns, head of San Francisco-based HomeWord, which produces a syndicated 30-minute radio program each day, aimed at young people, told the London Sunday Telegraph: "We are very, very optimistic about what Disney is doing with the film. Our people have seen some footage and it is wonderful from the Christian point of view." The film has also received the endorsement of Douglas Gresham, the stepson of C.S. Lewis, who operates a religious retreat in Dublin, Ireland. "I am a committed Christian and I am very happy with the script," Gresham said."
Now people identify the Lord of the Rings as a fable inspired by Christianity, and we know Battlestar Gallatica is Mormon-esque. Ugh.
I wonder if Aslan will denounce same-sex marriages, burn abortionists at the stake, and oppose stem cell research? It's supposed to be Christian afterall.
----------------------------------------
Separation of church and state
----------------------------------------
Posters immediately protest that she's misreading the release, but it turns out she wants a disclaimer on the movie.
If I want to read a religious book, then I'll choose to read one, but I don't appreciate a film or book from immortalizing Christianity on film without someform of disclaimer that we will be subjected to this propaganda.
Some favourite lines from the ensuing wank:
swirleeboy: "Separation of Church and State" is the credo by which you live your life? That's pretty sad that your entire existence is based around something so arbitrary and hateful.
MadballNYHC: I denounce YOU! I smell bigotry! You are blinded by the left. Why don't you actually try READING some of Lewis' other works and then talk crap. You are proving your ignorance by just coming on here and bashing anyone who doesn't agree with you.
sam I am 85:I'm still not getting this. How does being "subjected to this propaganda?" harm you? Do your ears burn? Are you afraid you might be tricked into converting?
buffy 666: Runing in circles here? They are deceiving readers by passing religious doctrine off as fiction, without informing anyone at all. By definition alone, that's propaganda.
The fact that you don't mind propaganda scares me most of all.
MadballNYHC: Wow. I am utterly amazed that you would think that C.S. Lewis is trying to throw propaganda in Narnia. Is there a Chrisitan subtext? Yes. But it's not like he's pulling a Micheal Moore on his readers. Lewis was genius, chritian or not. It's also important to point out that he was an extreme atheist before converting. Read some of his philosophical arguments and then talk about Lewis. You are proving your bigotry by coming on here and claiming that Lewis is propaganda. It amazes me that you refuse to read literature that contains religious subtext. Let us take a look at some of the books you'll be missing out on because they are too 'christian':
Paradise Lost
The Divine Comedy
St. Augustine's 'Confessions'
John Locke's 'Treatsie's on Government'
Descartes 'Meditations'
Lord of the Rings
Beowulf
Doctor Faustus
All of these pieces of literature draw heavily upon christian understanding and theology. To not read a book because it is simply 'religious' is just stupid. In regard to the His Dark Materials trilogy, I think it's stupid that people are against it. I enjoyed those books quite profusely. Although they can't match the sheer genius of Milton's Paradise Lost (the poem which the trilogy was based on), they are thought-provoking. And does everything have to be attributed to the Bush administration? Making a connection between His Dark Materials and the Bush Admin. is just stupid and proves my theory that you are indeed left-wing bias. Look, I don't care what your politics are, but please don't come on public forums and start bashing Narnia for having christian subtext. It's not propaganda no matter what you say. You aren't being preached too, and no one is insulting your intelligence. It's a classic piece of Literature whether you like it or not. Nothing is going to change the fact that Lewis was a philosophical and theological genius who deserves the praise he recieves. If you don't like it, don't read it. Don't, however, come on these forums complaining about it. It only makes you look like an ignorant ass. ( I'm not saying you are, it just makes you seem like one)
buffy 666: I'm not missing out on anything at all. That is a very short list of books that I seem to be missing out on. And you know what they say: never enroll in a class that makes you read Beowulf.
MadballNYHC: wow.....although my list of works may have been short, they are pieces of GENIUS. Unlike anything you read. Your theory of "don't enroll in a class that makes you read beowulf" proves how intolerant you are of anything that isn't of your own opinion. I can't deal with your ignorant b/s anymore. YOU OFFEND ME!! So you should put a disclaimer on yourself. This is why the world is in the state it's in right now, because of uneducated, ignorant, and blinded people like you. I'm done being nice. OPEN YOUR MIND A LITTLE. For all your preaching about open-mindedness, all I've seen from you is close-mindedness. Get over yourself. No one thinks you are a hero for bashing one of the greatest pieces of literature.
And here's another list of works since my other list seemed too 'short' for your obviously 'large' mind.
A Christmas Carol
The Bible
The Writings of William James
Francis Bacon's 'Novum Organum'
St. Aquinas' 'Summa Theologica'
Gottfried Leibniz 'monadology'
'New Essays on Human Understanding'
'Discourse on Metaphysics'
John Bunyan's 'the pilgrims progress'
Let's also take a look at writers that believe in God and Christianity(I think you may be surprised by how much 'christian propaganda' you've read througout your lifetime):
Dickens
Shakespeare
Mark Twain
Chaucer
Leo Tolstoy
John Milton
Dante Alighieri
St. Paul
Dr. Samuel Johnson
James Boswell
Samuel Beckett
Oscar Wilde (though skeptical most of his life)
Alexander Pope
Herman Melville (though strongly gnostic)
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Walt Whitman
Flannery O'Connor
William Blake
D.H. Lawerence
How's that for a list of 'right-wing fanatics'. Give me a break buddy. All of these writers are GENIUSES and have made a lasting impression upon human society. Are you to accuse them of 'right-wing propaganda'?
buffy 666: Isn't it funny how Mr. Literature becomes beligerent and starts launching personal attacks against me when I don't conform? Not once have I ever personally insulted anyone on this thread, and he just calls me ignorant and starts ranting and raving! This is a public message board (open to everyone), and the title is enough of a disclaimer, don't you think. It's not like you weren't warned, was it?
So what if I don't like religius themes - that's my choice, and I think people should be warned that they aren't watching any normal story, they are watching a Christian film. But Mr.Literature/intolerant calls me ignorant for not liking religious books? Ever read any Jewish orthodox fiction? Any gay fiction? Any muslim fiction (even the books that are critical of western thought)? I doubt you have read everything from every perspective, so keep you pretentious list away from me.
Whichever way you look at it, the movie and book promote religious themes without informing their audience. It's not like gay or non-Christian shows aren't easy to spot: titles like boy meets boy, queer eye, and Hebrew News Today are usually a heads up. Why would they need a disclaimer?
Oh, and Walt Whitman was a flamboyent homosexual, I doubt he really liked Christianity all that much.
---------------------------
There's much more. Much, much more. But I'll leave you to explore the thread.
I have a love-hate relationship with the Chronicles of Narnia going back many years, so therefore I'm quite interested in this upcoming movie. Even to the point of reading the IMDB boards. So I discover that any attempts to talk about religious/allegorical aspects to the Narnia books is immediately taken over by a poster named buffy 666who doesn't like Christians or Republicans.
She'll post something like this:
Blah blah blah. You know the religious right in this country are going to be promoting this movie like the second coming (pardon the pun).
I mean, I'm sure Fox News will enter a partnership deal with the producers of the film and will demonize anyone who tries to criticize its insidious relgious underpinnings.
And then everyone will engage in a frenzied battle about the Bible and forget C.S. Lewis.
Looking at Buffy's post history, all her posts on IMDB are like this:
Clint Eastwood Re: He's a filthy republican
Sarah Michelle Gellar Re: She's not a REPUBLICAN.. thankfully
Jerry Falwell Re: Racist, sexist, homophobe
The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (2005) Re: Clarification that conservatives lie habitually
Alexander (2004) Re: Christian FUNDAMENTALISM killed this movie
You get the picture. Lots of wank but little of it fandom enough to engage our attention.
Until this priceless thread. It's got a lot of off-topic wank about the Bible but some wonderful stuff about fiction and religion.
I'll try to paste some thread highlights, but I've too many favourite bits.
Buffy 666 begins: Now, I guess I missed the Christian references of Narnia growing up, but it appears C S. Lewis was an evangelical Christian, attempting to preach through fantasy. Now all of the crazy right-wing evangelicals are out in force, ready to support this religious crap....
"Walt Disney Co. has begun to court church groups to secure their support for their upcoming film version of C.S. Lewis's The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. According to some reports, the studio has hired a PR firm with strong connections among the evangelical movement and has already seen positive results from the move. Jim Burns, head of San Francisco-based HomeWord, which produces a syndicated 30-minute radio program each day, aimed at young people, told the London Sunday Telegraph: "We are very, very optimistic about what Disney is doing with the film. Our people have seen some footage and it is wonderful from the Christian point of view." The film has also received the endorsement of Douglas Gresham, the stepson of C.S. Lewis, who operates a religious retreat in Dublin, Ireland. "I am a committed Christian and I am very happy with the script," Gresham said."
Now people identify the Lord of the Rings as a fable inspired by Christianity, and we know Battlestar Gallatica is Mormon-esque. Ugh.
I wonder if Aslan will denounce same-sex marriages, burn abortionists at the stake, and oppose stem cell research? It's supposed to be Christian afterall.
----------------------------------------
Separation of church and state
----------------------------------------
Posters immediately protest that she's misreading the release, but it turns out she wants a disclaimer on the movie.
If I want to read a religious book, then I'll choose to read one, but I don't appreciate a film or book from immortalizing Christianity on film without someform of disclaimer that we will be subjected to this propaganda.
Some favourite lines from the ensuing wank:
swirleeboy: "Separation of Church and State" is the credo by which you live your life? That's pretty sad that your entire existence is based around something so arbitrary and hateful.
MadballNYHC: I denounce YOU! I smell bigotry! You are blinded by the left. Why don't you actually try READING some of Lewis' other works and then talk crap. You are proving your ignorance by just coming on here and bashing anyone who doesn't agree with you.
sam I am 85:I'm still not getting this. How does being "subjected to this propaganda?" harm you? Do your ears burn? Are you afraid you might be tricked into converting?
buffy 666: Runing in circles here? They are deceiving readers by passing religious doctrine off as fiction, without informing anyone at all. By definition alone, that's propaganda.
The fact that you don't mind propaganda scares me most of all.
MadballNYHC: Wow. I am utterly amazed that you would think that C.S. Lewis is trying to throw propaganda in Narnia. Is there a Chrisitan subtext? Yes. But it's not like he's pulling a Micheal Moore on his readers. Lewis was genius, chritian or not. It's also important to point out that he was an extreme atheist before converting. Read some of his philosophical arguments and then talk about Lewis. You are proving your bigotry by coming on here and claiming that Lewis is propaganda. It amazes me that you refuse to read literature that contains religious subtext. Let us take a look at some of the books you'll be missing out on because they are too 'christian':
Paradise Lost
The Divine Comedy
St. Augustine's 'Confessions'
John Locke's 'Treatsie's on Government'
Descartes 'Meditations'
Lord of the Rings
Beowulf
Doctor Faustus
All of these pieces of literature draw heavily upon christian understanding and theology. To not read a book because it is simply 'religious' is just stupid. In regard to the His Dark Materials trilogy, I think it's stupid that people are against it. I enjoyed those books quite profusely. Although they can't match the sheer genius of Milton's Paradise Lost (the poem which the trilogy was based on), they are thought-provoking. And does everything have to be attributed to the Bush administration? Making a connection between His Dark Materials and the Bush Admin. is just stupid and proves my theory that you are indeed left-wing bias. Look, I don't care what your politics are, but please don't come on public forums and start bashing Narnia for having christian subtext. It's not propaganda no matter what you say. You aren't being preached too, and no one is insulting your intelligence. It's a classic piece of Literature whether you like it or not. Nothing is going to change the fact that Lewis was a philosophical and theological genius who deserves the praise he recieves. If you don't like it, don't read it. Don't, however, come on these forums complaining about it. It only makes you look like an ignorant ass. ( I'm not saying you are, it just makes you seem like one)
buffy 666: I'm not missing out on anything at all. That is a very short list of books that I seem to be missing out on. And you know what they say: never enroll in a class that makes you read Beowulf.
MadballNYHC: wow.....although my list of works may have been short, they are pieces of GENIUS. Unlike anything you read. Your theory of "don't enroll in a class that makes you read beowulf" proves how intolerant you are of anything that isn't of your own opinion. I can't deal with your ignorant b/s anymore. YOU OFFEND ME!! So you should put a disclaimer on yourself. This is why the world is in the state it's in right now, because of uneducated, ignorant, and blinded people like you. I'm done being nice. OPEN YOUR MIND A LITTLE. For all your preaching about open-mindedness, all I've seen from you is close-mindedness. Get over yourself. No one thinks you are a hero for bashing one of the greatest pieces of literature.
And here's another list of works since my other list seemed too 'short' for your obviously 'large' mind.
A Christmas Carol
The Bible
The Writings of William James
Francis Bacon's 'Novum Organum'
St. Aquinas' 'Summa Theologica'
Gottfried Leibniz 'monadology'
'New Essays on Human Understanding'
'Discourse on Metaphysics'
John Bunyan's 'the pilgrims progress'
Let's also take a look at writers that believe in God and Christianity(I think you may be surprised by how much 'christian propaganda' you've read througout your lifetime):
Dickens
Shakespeare
Mark Twain
Chaucer
Leo Tolstoy
John Milton
Dante Alighieri
St. Paul
Dr. Samuel Johnson
James Boswell
Samuel Beckett
Oscar Wilde (though skeptical most of his life)
Alexander Pope
Herman Melville (though strongly gnostic)
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Walt Whitman
Flannery O'Connor
William Blake
D.H. Lawerence
How's that for a list of 'right-wing fanatics'. Give me a break buddy. All of these writers are GENIUSES and have made a lasting impression upon human society. Are you to accuse them of 'right-wing propaganda'?
buffy 666: Isn't it funny how Mr. Literature becomes beligerent and starts launching personal attacks against me when I don't conform? Not once have I ever personally insulted anyone on this thread, and he just calls me ignorant and starts ranting and raving! This is a public message board (open to everyone), and the title is enough of a disclaimer, don't you think. It's not like you weren't warned, was it?
So what if I don't like religius themes - that's my choice, and I think people should be warned that they aren't watching any normal story, they are watching a Christian film. But Mr.Literature/intolerant calls me ignorant for not liking religious books? Ever read any Jewish orthodox fiction? Any gay fiction? Any muslim fiction (even the books that are critical of western thought)? I doubt you have read everything from every perspective, so keep you pretentious list away from me.
Whichever way you look at it, the movie and book promote religious themes without informing their audience. It's not like gay or non-Christian shows aren't easy to spot: titles like boy meets boy, queer eye, and Hebrew News Today are usually a heads up. Why would they need a disclaimer?
Oh, and Walt Whitman was a flamboyent homosexual, I doubt he really liked Christianity all that much.
---------------------------
There's much more. Much, much more. But I'll leave you to explore the thread.
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