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Her Royal Highness the Princess Cimorene ([info]cimorene111) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2005-05-13 18:11:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
small morsel of fossilized star trek wank
while innocently canvassing teh internets for a vaguely-remembered report that the actor responsible for ds9's garak made him gay on purpose1, i accidentally stumbled on this priceless piece of one guy's "carefully-considered and well-supported perspective" on whether slash belongs in star trek (in case you haven't already smelled the ending, he's not homophobic, but for the most part those characters just aren't gay).

"is slash really trek?"

his "non-homophobic" "characterization-based" anti-slash position is admittedly the 1,600,042nd verse and pretty much the same as the first, but i thought he had some particularly funny condescending turns of phrase. also, the essay's relatively short on the tl;dr and should go down with just a spoonful of sugar or cherry lube, your choice.

(p.s.: and for once, the characters are being hijacked and not raped.)


my pitiful attempt at background, and some samples.
apparently this essay was widely published some years ago, back when fandom flourished mainly on mailing lists, and caused lots of kerfluffles at the time. from my own experience of trek[smut] mailing lists, i can well imagine that these kerfluffles were richly wanky. i bet they were also painfully interminable, but alas, i don't know where to find them.

a quick gander at his website gives some idea what they must have been like:
Below are links to a series of Trek essays I've written. They are opinionated and infuriating—in large part because I'm invariably correct, and those of differing perspectives hate being forced to slink away, having abandoned their stances in the face of superior logic and rhetoric.

And now that I've got you all riled up.... here are the collected rants I've chosen to repost. I'm sure there's something in here to offend, or at least irritate. If not, email me and I'll compose one specifically designed to piss you off.


a few samples from the essay itself:

"Let’s look at the above relationships objectively, without an agenda to push or an axe to grind."

"Hate to tell you, slashers, but … if Kirk’s animal side didn’t go hunting down Spock to “get wit’ ‘im” then, it means that proposed attraction is just not there. All the wishful thinking in the galaxy doesn’t change the fact that these guys are both ladies’ men."

"Sorry again, slashers: Bashir likes girls; goodness knows, he “examines” quite a few of them during the series run, including both the luscious Leeta and the creamy little Ezri Dax."

"Finally, we come to Seven of Nine and Janeway. Again and again, I’ve had Voyager fanatics (usually, but not exclusively… ahem… disciples of Sappho)"

"Slash, though, when written about a Trek regular who we know isn’t gay, is not only a subversion of the established character, it’s an attempt at revisionist history… something for which, as a historian, I have little but contempt.

In short, hijacking’s a crime in the real world…

…and it’s as much a crime in fan fiction."

1: in case your curiosity was piqued, i found it here.


(Post a new comment)


[info]tiki
2005-05-13 06:50 pm UTC (link)
No one who's seen the first Star Trek movie could possibly deny those characters are gayer than a 3 dollar bill.

(Reply to this)


[info]westmoon
2005-05-13 06:56 pm UTC (link)
I'm impressed with Robinson's take on his character. I really wish the writers had had the guts to go further.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]skarrow
2005-05-13 08:23 pm UTC (link)
Yeah... have the balls to deal with someone who's not gay (Oh, let us do a happy PC episode) and not straight (We are all normal. Please watch our show). That would've been cool.

Oh, well. Him and Q.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-13 11:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2005-05-13 11:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sesana, 2005-05-14 06:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-14 03:00 pm UTC

[info]bitca
2005-05-13 11:26 pm UTC (link)
I've met Andy...I used to work at the school he went to, back when he was a "troubled youth." (I didn't work there when he went there. I'm not THAT old!) Our smarmy development director managed to get him to come back and visit at commencement, right when he was a recurring character on DS9.

I've always liked him, and now I have a reason to like him even more.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cimorene111
2005-05-13 11:50 pm UTC (link)
you and soooooo many other people. the current honchos in charge of star trek are, according to my calculations, total homophobic conservative misogynist assholes. one of the nice things about trek, though, is that from almost the beginning it's belonged more to the fans than to the Powers That Be.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mucktron, 2005-05-14 10:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dawnswalker, 2005-05-14 11:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-14 02:54 pm UTC

[info]thebratqueen
2005-05-13 07:03 pm UTC (link)
it’s an attempt at revisionist history… something for which, as a historian, I have little but contempt.

Because as we all know, if there's one thing that never happens in history, it's gay people being recorded as being straight.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]cimorene111
2005-05-13 11:45 pm UTC (link)
if i were the judge you'd have just won at the internets.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2005-05-14 02:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2005-05-14 10:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2005-05-14 12:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2005-05-14 01:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2005-05-15 06:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2005-05-15 06:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2005-05-16 08:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sidhebastardess, 2005-05-15 01:29 am UTC

[info]jedilora
2005-05-13 07:24 pm UTC (link)
....good lord. I never want to hear the term "creamy Ezri Dax" AGAIN.

And maybe if Janeway and Seven HADN'T had such great chemistry, the show would've gotten canceled a heck of a lot earlier! And I say this as someone who is a historian in training and a full blooded Trekkie:

STFU, and get out of my major!

Don't even WANT to know what he'd think of Harry Potter slash

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]goldberry, 2005-05-13 07:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankismyfandom, 2005-05-13 11:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-13 11:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-05-14 12:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ravenclaw_devi, 2005-05-14 12:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lurker32, 2005-05-14 01:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2005-05-14 04:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-14 02:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]necronomist, 2005-05-14 06:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]goldberry, 2005-05-14 12:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2005-05-24 12:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2005-05-14 03:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]funwithrage, 2005-05-14 12:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]goldberry, 2005-05-14 01:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-05-13 11:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-13 11:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-05-13 11:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-14 12:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-05-14 12:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-14 12:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]adora_spintriae, 2005-05-14 04:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mydocuments, 2005-05-14 05:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dawnswalker, 2005-05-14 11:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2005-05-14 03:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]platedlizard, 2005-05-15 09:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2005-05-17 02:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wankismyfandom, 2005-05-18 07:38 am UTC
Pretty OT
[info]nekoneko
2005-05-13 07:36 pm UTC (link)
I love the fact that you posted this on a day when they have a Star Trek TOS marathon on SciFi channel. Now I can't help shipping the crew.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Pretty OT - [info]doyle, 2005-05-13 07:39 pm UTC
Re: Pretty OT - [info]kookaburra, 2005-05-13 07:52 pm UTC
Re: Pretty OT - [info]kadath, 2005-05-13 11:18 pm UTC
Re: Pretty OT - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-13 11:42 pm UTC
Re: Pretty OT - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-13 11:43 pm UTC
Re: Pretty OT - [info]skarrow, 2005-05-14 03:35 am UTC
Re: Pretty OT - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-13 11:44 pm UTC

[info]lurker32
2005-05-13 11:20 pm UTC (link)
No, honey, superior logic and rhetoric I could handle. It's the fact that however much I wish to, I can't reach through the monitor and punch you in your pink smirky face that gets me.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]fandom_bitch, 2005-05-16 04:50 am UTC

[info]aycelcus
2005-05-13 11:25 pm UTC (link)
*twitches* Yaknow... this sounds like the same kind of argument that people used back when TOS came out about the crew and the infamous intteracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura. "It doesn't belong here! This is a sci-fi show, not a reflection on the world at large!"

Cause really, t.v. shows that attract a broad audience over the course of 40 years or so, spawn movies, books, conventions, art, hell whole languages! (Klingon Shakespere, yo.) certainly can't reflect our big world as it is: a beautiful mess of cultures, peoples, and sexualities. Nope, it just has to reflect the mindview of one narrow-minded writer who posts things on the internet to make hiself feel special and knowlegeable about his little fandom.

*growls*

(Reply to this)


[info]nostalgia
2005-05-13 11:29 pm UTC (link)
I enjoyed reading the other essays and playing "spot the misogyny". Huzzah!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-13 11:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iscoffy, 2005-05-14 01:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nekoneko, 2005-05-14 02:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nostalgia, 2005-05-14 02:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nekoneko, 2005-05-14 05:49 am UTC

[info]mastervex
2005-05-13 11:48 pm UTC (link)
Regardless of any debating, and who's full of crap and who's not, nothing anyone can possibly say can stop Kirk and Spock from having sweaty rough sex inside my head. So...I win.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-05-13 11:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]photosinensis, 2005-05-14 02:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2005-05-13 11:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-13 11:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mastervex, 2005-05-14 03:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2005-05-24 12:07 am UTC

[info]ravenclaw_devi
2005-05-14 12:45 am UTC (link)
Comparing himself to Rushdie gives him extra wank-points. I haven't heard of the Trek fandom issueing actual fatwas. *snk*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dreamtoday, 2005-05-14 07:06 am UTC

[info]spacetart
2005-05-14 01:17 am UTC (link)
"Sorry again, slashers: Bashir likes girls;

And that prevents him from being bisexual how?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]iscoffy, 2005-05-14 01:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]obsidianwolf, 2005-05-14 05:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]spacefille, 2005-05-14 10:53 am UTC

dodyskin
2005-05-14 01:56 am UTC (link)
I can't be bothered to read it. I'm just going to the happy land where Trek is history. *shoots lasers* *flies about* *IN SPACE*

*yay*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2005-05-24 12:08 am UTC

[info]sadisticferret
2005-05-14 03:47 am UTC (link)
Slash? About Trek characters? Oh noes! ~cough~

Seriously, this guy is an asshole who needs to be sliced into with a bat'leth wielded by a drunken Klingon, then dipped in lemon juice, then dressed up like an Orion slave girl and given to Captain Kirk.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2005-05-14 04:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sadisticferret, 2005-05-14 08:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2005-05-14 08:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2005-05-14 10:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]platedlizard, 2005-05-15 10:00 am UTC

[info]gal_montag
2005-05-14 04:07 am UTC (link)
So, slash interferes with his stroke material and thus, it shouldn't be written?

it’s an attempt at revisionist history… something for which, as a historian, I have little but contempt.

Wow, a historian of an imaginary universe, even. I'm impressed.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mrbimble, 2005-05-15 07:09 am UTC
Everytime I think my fandom's getting bad... there's always Trekwank
[info]adora_spintriae
2005-05-14 04:24 am UTC (link)
…and it’s as much a crime in fan fiction.

OHNOES BOOHOO CALL THE E-POLICE AND HAVE THEM ARRESTED!!11one

*facepalm*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Everytime I think my fandom's getting bad... there's always Trekwank - [info]fandom_bitch, 2005-05-16 04:59 am UTC
Re: Everytime I think my fandom's getting bad... there's always Trekwank - [info]adora_spintriae, 2005-05-16 11:01 am UTC

[info]oxydosic
2005-05-14 04:36 am UTC (link)
Apparently this person has never heard of the term 'bisexual'.

And god i love Andy. So. Much. Love.

(Reply to this)


[info]aerobot
2005-05-14 04:38 am UTC (link)
Okay. Waaaaaiiiit a minute.

I take exception to certain slash not because homosexuality is either an abomination or an absurdity, but because, in most cases, the particular pairing requires a suspension of reality I’m just not willing to make... and one that, moreover, shouldn’t be made at all.

Let me get this straight. I haven't watched very much Star Trek, but this made me boggle. You can watch a series full of sentinent computers and aliens and holodecks and all that crazy stuff ... but you can't suspend your disbelief enough to believe a character may be GAY.

Uh HUH.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]iscoffy, 2005-05-14 04:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sesana, 2005-05-14 06:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iscoffy, 2005-05-16 03:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2005-05-14 10:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2005-05-14 10:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2005-05-14 10:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iscoffy, 2005-05-16 03:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2005-05-17 02:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]komorebi, 2005-05-18 08:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-14 02:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2005-05-14 03:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]panthea, 2005-05-14 07:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2005-05-15 06:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]narcissam, 2005-05-14 09:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cimorene111, 2005-05-14 10:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fandom_bitch, 2005-05-16 05:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chikane, 2005-05-15 06:25 pm UTC

[info]mastervex
2005-05-14 05:38 am UTC (link)
Anyway...he really needs to realize that all of entertainment and fandom is not required to focus itself on creating only what he personally can jack off to.

(Reply to this)


[info]dreamtoday
2005-05-14 07:09 am UTC (link)
...luscious Leeta and the creamy little Ezri Dax.

why do i feel like i need a shower? ew.

(Reply to this)


[info]spacefille
2005-05-14 10:55 am UTC (link)
I loved Garak. I also really applaud Andrew Robinson's take on the character. Incidentally if an actor says that his character is supposed to be sexually ambiguous, this usually means they win the argument over a fan. -_-;

I raised an eyebrow at his comments about Bashir's apparent heterosexuality... sure he jumped into bed with Ezri Dax... the episode after telling O'Brian that he likes him "just a little bit more" than her and follows up with a "there, I've admitted it." Um... yeah.

As everyone else above me has already said, this guy has never heard of bisexuality me thinks.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]misswindy, 2005-05-14 05:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]platedlizard, 2005-05-16 09:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jun_motomiya17, 2005-05-16 10:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]platedlizard, 2005-05-17 06:41 am UTC
(no subject) - edward_hyde, 2005-05-18 04:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilgmbethy, 2005-05-22 04:40 pm UTC

[info]sidhebastardess
2005-05-15 01:32 am UTC (link)
Star Trek not gay? Oh, bah.

I was entirely unimpressed with this article; in fact, the only thing that sticks with me is that he uses a silly euphamism for lesbians and insinuates that we're man-haters.

Icky man misogynistic 'phobe.

(Reply to this)


 
   
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