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St. Ignatius of Antioch ([info]ignatius) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2005-06-18 03:07:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Oh Dear.
While this is an addition to the Lee Goldberg wank below, I hope you’ll forgive a new entry, as there have been some wanky new developments.

When last we heard from Lee Goldberg's blog, he and some of his very soulful and important author friends were wanking merrily away about the evils of fanfiction. One of the things that brought this on was Mr. Goldberg’s participation in a radio program that discussed the issue. He felt the program was unfair, especially when the host ended up coming out in favor of fanfiction.

One of the pro- fanfic people on the same radio program was soon-to-be published author Naomi Novik. Mr. Goldberg described her as a “dimwit” when he originally posted about the radio show.

Ms. Novik responded to Mr. Goldberg’s post, not linking to it, but giving her own opinions on fanfiction and other issues.

Someone linked to this post in Mr. Goldberg’s comment section, and shortly he put another post up, linking to and quoting her response. Of course, as always, he is unfailingly polite: “Her arrogance and stupidity is mind-boggling. Between her, and the guy who made the "We more emotionally attached" comment, I think you get a pretty accurate picture of the fanfic community and how they think. Scary, isn't it?”

Meanwhile, the anti-kiddie porn wank continues in Jocelyn’s blog, as a commenter tries their hand at psychoanalysis: “It's interesting to us that of all the thought-provoking and edgy writing CS Lewis did for adults, the only stuff of his we can find fanfic about, and most of it pornographic is Narnia. That tells us something about the mentality of the people who write it.”

(If you’ll allow me to sidebar for a minute- It’s probably because that adult scifi/whatever stuff he wrote was generally boring as ASS; I didn’t even manage to get through any of it. I have, however, read The Screwtape Letters and Mere Christianity many times. Does she want me to go write smut about them? Because actually, I think I’m more than up for the task.)

As for the original post- well they’re still wanking away. But there is some good stuff in there- for instance, I like Rachel Caine’s comment so much that I think I’m going to have to go buy her Stargate novel now.



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(Post a new comment)


[info]bakunina
2005-06-18 10:44 am UTC (link)
Can I have Mere Christianity smut?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ignatius, 2005-06-18 11:22 am UTC

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]ignatius, 2005-06-18 10:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2005-06-18 10:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2005-06-19 12:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]photosinensis, 2005-06-19 07:03 am UTC

[info]ladybirdsleeps
2005-06-18 10:55 am UTC (link)
Christ. Does anyone else get the feeling that they spend so much time and energy insulting fanficcers because they need someone to feel superior to? "My novels may be crap, but at least I'm better than THOSE people!"

It's interesting to us that of all the thought-provoking and edgy writing CS Lewis did for adults, the only stuff of his we can find fanfic about, and most of it pornographic is Narnia.

"No, it's not that most people have read The Chronicles of Narnia but not Lewis's other works. That's too obvious and logical, and it doesn't let us compare fanficcers to pedophiles!"

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]toxictattoo, 2005-06-18 03:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-06-18 04:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2005-06-18 04:50 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]out_bottle, 2005-06-18 08:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2005-06-19 07:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]i_luv_fw, 2005-06-18 08:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hermisia, 2005-06-19 02:04 am UTC
(no subject) - tintin, 2005-06-18 08:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2005-06-18 09:33 pm UTC
exactly - [info]loopywafflehead, 2005-06-19 12:27 am UTC
Re: exactly - [info]pyratejenni, 2005-06-19 05:11 am UTC

[info]crysiana
2005-06-18 11:09 am UTC (link)
...thank you, Lee, for showing me that there are rational people left in the world. If only by way of pointing at them and calling them morons.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]daromaius, 2005-06-20 01:33 am UTC

[info]workingslacker
2005-06-18 11:25 am UTC (link)
"Her arrogance and stupidity is mind-boggling."

I think it's because he fails to supply a counter-argument to what she says, and instead just responds with "Need I say more?" I'm afraid I fail to see his rebuttal, and I've been looking with a flashlight and a magnifying glass.


Also, I so want to hit him over the head with a copy of Free Culture.

(Reply to this)


[info]white_serpent
2005-06-18 11:51 am UTC (link)
I like Rachel Caine’s comment so much that I think I’m going to have to go buy her Stargate novel now.

I like her comment, too. I'm thinking about snagging her romance novels, myself.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]telophase, 2005-06-18 05:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wanktastic, 2005-06-18 07:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]threegoldfish, 2005-06-18 08:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]raven, 2005-06-19 12:29 am UTC

[info]aerobot
2005-06-18 01:02 pm UTC (link)
I really like the way these people keep prattling on like we care. Oh, you think fanfic sucks? That's nice dear. Notice how I don't care.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jarofclay, 2005-06-18 01:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]telophase, 2005-06-18 05:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - flightstothesea, 2005-06-18 01:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]theredwepainted, 2005-06-18 01:51 pm UTC

[info]omega
2005-06-18 01:49 pm UTC (link)
If someone wrote RPF wherein Naomi Novik puts a ball-gag on Lee Goldberg and spanks him with copies of his UNSOLD TELEVISION PILOTS, I'd read it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - flightstothesea, 2005-06-18 03:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaseroque, 2005-06-18 03:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frenzy, 2005-06-18 04:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]melloniel, 2005-06-18 09:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hermisia, 2005-06-19 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aycelcus, 2005-06-19 05:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dreamtoday, 2005-06-19 06:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aerobot, 2005-06-19 10:00 am UTC

[info]toxictattoo
2005-06-18 03:07 pm UTC (link)
Well, I suppose negative press is better than no press at all. If he's thought an arrogant fuckhead, well, at least he's being thought about instead of disappearing into the realm of the obscure and forgotten.

(Reply to this)


[info]simkin_mouse
2005-06-18 03:55 pm UTC (link)
I modestly propose we call this and the last report "The Anti-Fanfic Saga" and write smutfic for it. What do you say, y''all, think Holly, Paulie and Mr. Goldberg would approve of a foursome with a Lolita-Sue?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nights_mistress, 2005-06-19 02:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mrbimble, 2005-06-19 08:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nights_mistress, 2005-06-19 08:41 am UTC

[info]afrai
2005-06-18 03:57 pm UTC (link)
Every time I see a reference to this wank, I have to bite my tongue to stop myself from howling out my deep and fangirly adoration of Naomi Novik.

*bites tongue*

(Reply to this)


[info]mastervex
2005-06-18 04:33 pm UTC (link)
Still laughing at Lee Goldberg.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kadath, 2005-06-18 05:53 pm UTC

soula
2005-06-18 05:53 pm UTC (link)
writing reference books about television is no different than fanfic.

Oh, no--writing reference books about television involves less imagination and critical thought, and maybe even less research, than writing fanfiction, Lee. Novik was just pointing out that it involves the same damn unauthorized use of material.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rowan, 2005-06-18 07:30 pm UTC

[info]lurker32
2005-06-18 06:06 pm UTC (link)
He just says that because I haven't quite finished my That Hideous Strength</i> BDSM lesbian orgyfic yet.

...What? It's totally in the spirit of the original! Really.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]lurker32, 2005-06-18 06:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]megmurry, 2005-06-18 09:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]atalantapendrag, 2005-06-18 11:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mercutia, 2005-06-20 04:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mastervex, 2005-06-18 10:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lurker32, 2005-06-19 04:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jat_sapphire, 2005-06-19 04:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lurker32, 2005-06-19 03:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]diane_duane, 2005-06-20 08:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]diane_duane, 2005-06-20 08:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lurker32, 2005-06-23 05:09 am UTC

[info]damnskippy
2005-06-18 06:22 pm UTC (link)
(From the comments posted on Goldberg's blog:) "Listen, the difference between what Lee does and what fanficcers do is the difference between making love and rape."

Ew ew ew ew. That comparison and any Hitler comparisons should be banned from speech. Anyone caught using them will immediately be clubbed and skinned.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]cheezdanish, 2005-06-18 06:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]defenestrate, 2005-06-18 10:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sarajayechan, 2005-06-18 07:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]memii, 2005-06-19 04:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blackjackrocket, 2005-06-19 05:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-06-19 05:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]heddychaa, 2005-06-20 12:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mistressrenet, 2005-06-20 02:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lurker32, 2005-06-19 04:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mydemand, 2005-06-19 03:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2005-06-19 06:05 pm UTC

[info]cjk
2005-06-18 07:33 pm UTC (link)
What a small-minded, misinformed, rude and opinionated man Mr. Goldberg is. He's only different from all those other trolls in that he's more visible.

But, since Henry Jenkins and the point where fanfiction became the source for scientific papers and well-researched newspaper articles, the majority of what I've read in non-fannish sources has been ranging from bemused to supportive. Goldberg isn't as important or opinion-forming as he'd love to see himself.

Of course, the attitude that derivative work is worthless by definition because the author didn't invent the character him/her/itself is widely spread. Only, that encompasses Goldberg's work as well as ours.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]suzycat, 2005-06-20 12:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-06-20 10:50 pm UTC

[info]sennet
2005-06-18 07:37 pm UTC (link)
Waitaminit...

He AND the Guyot dillhole are TV WRITERS?

Le-hooooooo-zaherrrr. :D

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]smo, 2005-06-19 01:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sennet, 2005-06-19 06:34 am UTC

[info]rosalita
2005-06-18 07:37 pm UTC (link)
I have a theory that Lee Goldberg and John *rd*v*r (I hope I've disguised his name enough to keep him away) are actually the same person because they spout the same shit and cannot be reasoned with.

Also, Julie Fortune is Roxanne Longstreet? Huh.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]diane_duane, 2005-06-20 08:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-06-20 10:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rosalita, 2005-06-21 02:46 am UTC

[info]gorogoro
2005-06-18 07:58 pm UTC (link)
I've never claimed to be a capital-W-writer OR moral. Can these losers shut up now? Please?

(Reply to this)


tintin
2005-06-18 08:09 pm UTC (link)
You don't get it. And the other fanfic people - who react to this debate very similar to Scientologists when they're challenged - don't get it either.

Oh no he DIDN'T.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - dracothelizard, 2005-06-18 10:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]waltraute, 2005-06-19 03:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mercutia, 2005-06-20 10:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lurker32, 2005-06-18 10:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sennet, 2005-06-18 11:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]necronomist, 2005-06-19 09:26 pm UTC

[info]msmanna
2005-06-18 08:09 pm UTC (link)
from here: http://leegoldberg.typepad.com/a_writers_life/2004/09/diagnosis_murde.html#comments

"And yes, I do write DM for money... I'm a professional writer. But it's not about the money for me -- I make a lot more in television. The reason I write the books is because I have such a great time doing it...and I care about these characters as if I'd created them myself."


Oh, that is so very, very beautiful. Whoever Red is, I want to buy them an internet beer for finding that.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]jess_d_ripper, 2005-06-18 11:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]crysiana, 2005-06-19 05:50 am UTC

[info]jaina
2005-06-18 08:42 pm UTC (link)
Anyone else think that Mr. Goldberg and Anne Rice would get along famously? They're like yin and yang.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ahiru, 2005-06-19 04:57 pm UTC
If They Mated... - [info]elanor_durall, 2005-06-20 12:00 am UTC
Re: If They Mated... - [info]suzycat, 2005-06-20 12:33 am UTC
Re: If They Mated... - [info]isobelsomething, 2005-06-21 01:42 am UTC

[info]xero_sky
2005-06-18 08:48 pm UTC (link)
Nothing like a dose of Lee to make me feel evil and morally reprehensible because of my hobbies.

*happy sigh*

(Reply to this)


[info]kalicephirot
2005-06-18 09:23 pm UTC (link)
I'm seriously starting to wonder if Lee's not just bitter because no one wants to write fanfiction of his... er... work. Because man.

I'm half tempted to send him some lube. Surely wanking this hard on dry hurts, right?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]labyrinthan_elf, 2005-06-19 02:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2005-06-20 10:55 pm UTC

[info]iris
2005-06-18 11:06 pm UTC (link)
And what it all comes down to, is that Harry Potter gets more head than Lee Goldberg. Poor Lee Goldberg. But we are still not slashing you, even if you ask nicely.

Best. Comment. Ever.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]loopywafflehead, 2005-06-19 12:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iris, 2005-06-19 03:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]xero_sky, 2005-06-19 04:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aycelcus, 2005-06-19 07:15 am UTC



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