He said, he said....
Last Saturday night in Tampa, Florida, there was a hardcore industrial music concert featuring three bands: Combichrist, Glis, and Manufactura. Despite the hardass-ness of the music and the participants in general, these shows are generally very peaceful -- most people just want to enjoy the music and the booze. (I'm five feet tall and a girl and I've escaped injury at shows like this, even standing five feet from the stage.) However, a few weeks before at another show at the same venue, a fight led to the unfortunate stabbing death of a man, also badly wounding his wife and landing her in the ICU.

Stuff's in a bad place already, and it just gets worse. At the show's afterparty, a bash in a goth/industrial club called the Castle, Karloz from Manufactura gets seriously drunk and loses control of himself, pouring beer all over people and generally being an asshole. He gets ejected from the club. And that's when things go from bad to worse.

What no one will argue is this -- after getting ejected from the club by the bouncers, Karloz pulls out a knife. The bouncers take him down. Things get messy. Karloz lands in jail, faced with a felony charge.

donwaughesq posts what he saw in rivets, claiming he was three feet away from the fight and the security guards did not use excessive force to take Karloz down. Friends of Karloz, including combichrist (one of the musicians) and his wife scargrrl tell donwaughesq he's full of shit; the guards practically killed Karloz. People on both sides think Karloz is an asshole. Andy (combichrist) posts what he saw, including him valiantly running into the fray to prevent Karloz from being murdered. Wank ensueth. Someone organizes a drive to bail Karloz out of jail. Some help, while some tell Karloz to go rot. People like me enjoy the wank and laugh in that perfect Schadenfreude way at Karloz's black eye.