|
|
NM (![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} narcissam) wrote in ![[info]](http://www.journalfen.net/img/community.gif){kind=small} fandom_wank,@ 2005-08-04 10:19:00 |
 |
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
 |
Emerson of Mugglenet and His Harmonian Slaves
What? You thought the HBP shipping wank was over? Are you kidding?
The SF Chronicle runs an article on the shipping fallout of HBP, which interviews Mugglenet's Emerson, The Leaky Cauldron's Melissa, and H/Hr fic writer Alison. Posters on Portkey feel slighted. (The HBP forum's passworded to prevent people from accidentally stumbling on spoilers, but anyone who takes a minute to register can see the posts.)
The thread begins with some non-wanky responses about how this does/does-not make H/Hr shippers look bad in the media. But there's wank. Of course.
S.P.E.W.: I personally don't feel that we've been hurt too badly by this. In fact, if anything, people who weren't aware of the shipping war will certainly know it now, and anyone reading that article might at least be able to understand, in a small way, why we ship H/Hr.
The other thing it does is that it brings it into the mainstream arena. The more publicity this gets, the less JKR can ignore it, and the greater the possibility that we might get some answers.
Maybe I'm in the minority in thinking this, but I think it's JKR that comes out of this in a bad light, not us. People now know that, for whatever reason, there are people out there who weren't happy with HBP, and when it came down to it, she laughed in her fans' faces. I think the general public assume that everyone loved HBP, and that myth has now been shattered. These things have got to be damaging for her reputation, and this is something that she might now have to address.
Shob: But I know that there are many H/Hr shippers who never post on some HP site. They have probably never even thought that R/Hr is possible. They simply read the books and see the same things that Harmonians see, just don`t write essays about it.
I wouldn`t be suprised at all, if it turns out that in fact over 50% of HP fans are H/Hr shippers. And Rowling is about to lose half of her fan base.
engine5972 decides to write a letter to the SF Chronicle. Should provide some amusement there. I know I'd die laughing if I got this one in my mailbox.
Neva,
I feel your article "If you're an obsessed Harry Potter fan. . ." fails to tell the whole story and contains a rather unfortunate slant.
The majority of Harry/Hermione shippers are not merely upset that we didn't get what we wanted in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. That makes us sound childish. While I'm forced to admit that there has been much bile and vitriol posted on various H/Hr shipping sites, the majority of us are reasonable people. What really hurt our feelings was the way the Mugglenet/TLC article made it seem as if J. K. Rowling herself felt we were really dense, missing her "anvil-sized clues." Emerson's subsequent "apology" for the harsh words directed at the Harry/Hermione 'shipper community was a non-apology, which you would have known if you had done more than just take his word that he apologized. He simply used the "apology" as an opportunity to issue another dig. I suppose not much better can be expected from a child of 18 who has suddenly become a bit of a celebrity. But I do expect better from a colleague; a professional writer.
Harmonians, as we're known, are actually not the only ones who were quick to express puzzlement, disappointment, and even outrage at the apparent quality of the writing in HBP, as it relates to both the pairs and the overall story. There are many Ron/Hermione shippers (known as Herons) and Harry/Ginny shippers (Chocolateers) who are very disappointed that while they got to see the pairings they hoped for, they were written in a rather unsatisfying way, either vague and undefined or taking place mostly off the page.
I think most of us realize, however, that the romantic pairings in the books are merely subplots, if they're even that important. The crux of the matter for Harmonians is that we've seen J.K.Rowling write Harry and Hermione's relationship as one of unquestioned trust, deep affection, and total loyalty. She has implied that they share something deeper than mere friendship as well, whether intentionally or not. She's shown Ron and Hermione as constantly bickering and being downright mean and spiteful to one another, and she's shown us almost nothing between Harry and Ginny before now. We find the leap of faith we're being asked to make a little wider than is reasonable based on previous Harry Potter books. And we feel as if we've been conned rather than tricked (JKR famously said in an interview that she thinks fans like to be tricked but not conned, and she's right) with characters having appeared to take drastic detours from their established personalities.
Once the initial furor died down, however, fans from all 'ships began to look deeper as we always do and people are beginning to forward amazing theories as to what's really going on in the story. As always, many things in a Harry Potter story are not what they at first appear to be. Even if they all turn out to be false, the sharing of and debate over the theories a lot of fun.
Make no mistake, J.K. Rowling is an amazing author who knows how to use classical symbolism and all kinds of fiendishly clever literary devices in the service of her stories. HBP exhibits these in abundance, though our first impressions told many otherwise. It may be her best use of misdirection yet. If any of us are still upset with her, it's because she gave an interview to two very biased webmasters who shared the same shipping preference, and did little to prevent those webmasters from using the interview as a platform to denigrate people who have different views. Other 'ships had no representation at that interview. Ironically, this is an issue that's at the very heart of the Harry Potter stories - intolerance and prejudice based on personal beliefs.
You have assisted one side of the argument and failed to represent the other. Did you attempt to interview the webmasters of any Harry/Hermione shipping sites or did you merely cut and paste posts that were pointed out to you by Emerson and Melissa? Your article shows no evidence that you made any attempt to give the other side equal time, so to speak, and as a result, you have contributed to the perceprtion that ALL H/Hr 'shippers are irrational, bitter, spoiled brats. And that's quite unfair.
Disappointed in you and in the Chronicle,
Ken Hughes
San Jose, CA
Remolina: History is written by the victorius (or something like that), isn't it how the saying goes?. I'm afraid we are witnessing it firsthand.
Herons feel they are the winners on this war, and as such, they feel they have a right to treat us anyway they want to, and they think we have no weapons to defend ourselves since even J.K seems to have sided with them.
Even if most of us are pretty reasonable people, at this point anything we say in regards of J.K's apparent disregard for our feelings (thoughts, opinions, whatever), will be gladly taken as the lashing out of sore losers. ::sigh:: I say, just ignore Emerson, he's just some lost kid desperate for attention.
And how good can the guy who wrote this article be if he didn't bother to check the facts before he went slandering us?, not much me thinks.
And then Panther brings down the thread with this gem:
Ya know, come to think of it, people like Emerson were probably the kinda people that started slavery. I mean, think about it, they thought the slaves were animals, just because they had different colored skin.
Emerson thinks we're stupid and delusional for having different beliefs. Get the similarities here, people?
Now, I'm not black, but boy, do I feel for the black people. If I lived in the 1800's, I wouldn't keep slaves, and if someone has a difference of opinion than me now, that's fine, believe what you want.
Edited to AddNew Highlights
Sane poster named Ashes comes along after several hours and asks: Sorry. What?
What's the similarity between physically, mentally and sexually abusing slaves and to calling shippers delusional?
Panther: Yes, yes, I know weird thought. I have MANY weird thoughts. It just came to me and I had to post.
Sorry if it didn't make any sense. I was tired when I wrote that.
Anndee Granger: There isn't, but I can see where they were going with this...a different analogy would probably have been better.
Maybe the religious persecution during Mary Tudor's reign, or the Salem Witch Hunt/Trials, the religous crusades, the wars in Bosnia etc.
We harmonians are being "persecuted" for our differening viewpoints/perspectives.
Ashes: I think those kinds of analogies are kind of overblown. People died from said witch hunts, crusades, etc. I hardly think that this measures up.
*Under your Skin: If JKR tried to publish the HP series during the time of the Salem Witch Trials she probably would have found herself being hunted down like the rest of the ,supposed, witches.
What all of the examples amount to is the violence that ensued because people had different beliefs or views other than what was considered "normal" in society at the time. The "normal", of course, being driven by the powers that be at the time.
No, what we are experiencing is not at the same extreme level because of the world we now live in, but the base level is still the same.
The base level taking us back to different beliefs and views without the ability to be heard in the correct manner, and yes it does feel like a form of persecution.
Anndee Granger: Of course no one is dying because of this, but all in all we are being persecuted for our different beliefs. "Bloody" Mary Tudor, killed Protestants because she so hated their different views on Christ. This is an extreme indeed, but the mentality behind it, the vitrol, is the same.
jane 99 breaks up the party. You've got to admire her.:
I'm going to put this bluntly.
I read the article. It didn't make me feel ashamed to be an H/Hr shipper. I thought it was alright, actually, for what it was.
Then I read the responses to the article, posted in this very thread. I'm sorry to say that many of them DO make feel feel ashamed to be an H/Hr shipper.
No wonder other people find it easy to portray us as reactionary and vicious. Some of you bloody well are. That article was really quite reasonable. I certainly didn't feel offended or maligned, and if it wasn't as thorough as it could have been, I get the strong feeling that some of you wouldn't have been happy unless it trashed Emerson et al. as much many here feel he has trashed us.
There have been some sensible responses. I thought Ken's letter was great. But some were terribly reactionary and terribly childish. I'm not entirely impressed with Emerson either, but I see no need to wilfully, gleefully, drop to that level while parading under some sort of smug delusion - yes, delusion - that I am far superior in my behaviour.
and
This is exactly the type of thing that I'm talking about. When Emerson calls us delusional, he's a horrible person who should apologise immediately.
But it's alright for us to say that it's people like him who supported slavery (a much sillier, more vicious charge in my opinion). By our logic, he deserves an apology for that as well, not just a "sorry if it didn't make sense" fob off.
Isn't the fact that his apology was less than stellar one of the things that people are complaining about here? Doesn't that make people who post things like the above rather hypocritical?
Just think - it's the kind of comment above that COULD have been printed in that article.
myrhlyn: So, on our own website, we should watch what we say? I'm not supporting the slavery argument in any way (I agree that it is very vicious and out in left field), but I don't think we should be guarded in the company of friends. Emerson was in the wrong when he went to HMS Harmony, and copied and pasted quotes. It's hypocritical of many of us, who probably called JK similar names in the privacy of our homes, to suddenly condemn those people as "immature" and "reactionary". THEY WERE WITH FRIENDS. They probably expected no one else to read it. And not only that, they were from several weeks ago, and they were probably "gut reactions". Though I also swore at JK under my breath, I don't take those words to heart today. She's disappointed me, but I wouldn't call her a expletive today.
As for the slavery comment - How old is Panther? Emerson is legally an adult. Kids are allowed to say stupid things in the company of their friends. It's part of growing up. But adults, in an interview? Especially when he's supposedly representing a world-wide community? No, sorry, don't buy that. He knew what he was doing. He knew he was slamming a group of fans and making them look bad in front of JK. And he didn't help the matter with his "apology". I would expect better behavior from a college student.
However, Panther, if you are over 18, I rescind my excuse for you. Slavery was an oppressive movement for hundreds of years, resulting in the deaths of millions. I would hardly regard that with 'shipper treatment, nowadays. However, the schoolyard bully is a very appropriate analogy, in my opinion. Hopefully you understand the difference.
ETA 2: I've just been informed that Emerson has updated his Wall of Shame with some of the quotes from this Wank, and has featuredahiru's Civil War icon. Check it all out here. (Scroll to the bottom of the page).
What? You thought the HBP shipping wank was over? Are you kidding?
The SF Chronicle runs an article on the shipping fallout of HBP, which interviews Mugglenet's Emerson, The Leaky Cauldron's Melissa, and H/Hr fic writer Alison. Posters on Portkey feel slighted. (The HBP forum's passworded to prevent people from accidentally stumbling on spoilers, but anyone who takes a minute to register can see the posts.)
The thread begins with some non-wanky responses about how this does/does-not make H/Hr shippers look bad in the media. But there's wank. Of course.
S.P.E.W.: I personally don't feel that we've been hurt too badly by this. In fact, if anything, people who weren't aware of the shipping war will certainly know it now, and anyone reading that article might at least be able to understand, in a small way, why we ship H/Hr.
The other thing it does is that it brings it into the mainstream arena. The more publicity this gets, the less JKR can ignore it, and the greater the possibility that we might get some answers.
Maybe I'm in the minority in thinking this, but I think it's JKR that comes out of this in a bad light, not us. People now know that, for whatever reason, there are people out there who weren't happy with HBP, and when it came down to it, she laughed in her fans' faces. I think the general public assume that everyone loved HBP, and that myth has now been shattered. These things have got to be damaging for her reputation, and this is something that she might now have to address.
Shob: But I know that there are many H/Hr shippers who never post on some HP site. They have probably never even thought that R/Hr is possible. They simply read the books and see the same things that Harmonians see, just don`t write essays about it.
I wouldn`t be suprised at all, if it turns out that in fact over 50% of HP fans are H/Hr shippers. And Rowling is about to lose half of her fan base.
engine5972 decides to write a letter to the SF Chronicle. Should provide some amusement there. I know I'd die laughing if I got this one in my mailbox.
Neva,
I feel your article "If you're an obsessed Harry Potter fan. . ." fails to tell the whole story and contains a rather unfortunate slant.
The majority of Harry/Hermione shippers are not merely upset that we didn't get what we wanted in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. That makes us sound childish. While I'm forced to admit that there has been much bile and vitriol posted on various H/Hr shipping sites, the majority of us are reasonable people. What really hurt our feelings was the way the Mugglenet/TLC article made it seem as if J. K. Rowling herself felt we were really dense, missing her "anvil-sized clues." Emerson's subsequent "apology" for the harsh words directed at the Harry/Hermione 'shipper community was a non-apology, which you would have known if you had done more than just take his word that he apologized. He simply used the "apology" as an opportunity to issue another dig. I suppose not much better can be expected from a child of 18 who has suddenly become a bit of a celebrity. But I do expect better from a colleague; a professional writer.
Harmonians, as we're known, are actually not the only ones who were quick to express puzzlement, disappointment, and even outrage at the apparent quality of the writing in HBP, as it relates to both the pairs and the overall story. There are many Ron/Hermione shippers (known as Herons) and Harry/Ginny shippers (Chocolateers) who are very disappointed that while they got to see the pairings they hoped for, they were written in a rather unsatisfying way, either vague and undefined or taking place mostly off the page.
I think most of us realize, however, that the romantic pairings in the books are merely subplots, if they're even that important. The crux of the matter for Harmonians is that we've seen J.K.Rowling write Harry and Hermione's relationship as one of unquestioned trust, deep affection, and total loyalty. She has implied that they share something deeper than mere friendship as well, whether intentionally or not. She's shown Ron and Hermione as constantly bickering and being downright mean and spiteful to one another, and she's shown us almost nothing between Harry and Ginny before now. We find the leap of faith we're being asked to make a little wider than is reasonable based on previous Harry Potter books. And we feel as if we've been conned rather than tricked (JKR famously said in an interview that she thinks fans like to be tricked but not conned, and she's right) with characters having appeared to take drastic detours from their established personalities.
Once the initial furor died down, however, fans from all 'ships began to look deeper as we always do and people are beginning to forward amazing theories as to what's really going on in the story. As always, many things in a Harry Potter story are not what they at first appear to be. Even if they all turn out to be false, the sharing of and debate over the theories a lot of fun.
Make no mistake, J.K. Rowling is an amazing author who knows how to use classical symbolism and all kinds of fiendishly clever literary devices in the service of her stories. HBP exhibits these in abundance, though our first impressions told many otherwise. It may be her best use of misdirection yet. If any of us are still upset with her, it's because she gave an interview to two very biased webmasters who shared the same shipping preference, and did little to prevent those webmasters from using the interview as a platform to denigrate people who have different views. Other 'ships had no representation at that interview. Ironically, this is an issue that's at the very heart of the Harry Potter stories - intolerance and prejudice based on personal beliefs.
You have assisted one side of the argument and failed to represent the other. Did you attempt to interview the webmasters of any Harry/Hermione shipping sites or did you merely cut and paste posts that were pointed out to you by Emerson and Melissa? Your article shows no evidence that you made any attempt to give the other side equal time, so to speak, and as a result, you have contributed to the perceprtion that ALL H/Hr 'shippers are irrational, bitter, spoiled brats. And that's quite unfair.
Disappointed in you and in the Chronicle,
Ken Hughes
San Jose, CA
Remolina: History is written by the victorius (or something like that), isn't it how the saying goes?. I'm afraid we are witnessing it firsthand.
Herons feel they are the winners on this war, and as such, they feel they have a right to treat us anyway they want to, and they think we have no weapons to defend ourselves since even J.K seems to have sided with them.
Even if most of us are pretty reasonable people, at this point anything we say in regards of J.K's apparent disregard for our feelings (thoughts, opinions, whatever), will be gladly taken as the lashing out of sore losers. ::sigh:: I say, just ignore Emerson, he's just some lost kid desperate for attention.
And how good can the guy who wrote this article be if he didn't bother to check the facts before he went slandering us?, not much me thinks.
And then Panther brings down the thread with this gem:
Ya know, come to think of it, people like Emerson were probably the kinda people that started slavery. I mean, think about it, they thought the slaves were animals, just because they had different colored skin.
Emerson thinks we're stupid and delusional for having different beliefs. Get the similarities here, people?
Now, I'm not black, but boy, do I feel for the black people. If I lived in the 1800's, I wouldn't keep slaves, and if someone has a difference of opinion than me now, that's fine, believe what you want.
Edited to AddNew Highlights
Sane poster named Ashes comes along after several hours and asks: Sorry. What?
What's the similarity between physically, mentally and sexually abusing slaves and to calling shippers delusional?
Panther: Yes, yes, I know weird thought. I have MANY weird thoughts. It just came to me and I had to post.
Sorry if it didn't make any sense. I was tired when I wrote that.
Anndee Granger: There isn't, but I can see where they were going with this...a different analogy would probably have been better.
Maybe the religious persecution during Mary Tudor's reign, or the Salem Witch Hunt/Trials, the religous crusades, the wars in Bosnia etc.
We harmonians are being "persecuted" for our differening viewpoints/perspectives.
Ashes: I think those kinds of analogies are kind of overblown. People died from said witch hunts, crusades, etc. I hardly think that this measures up.
*Under your Skin: If JKR tried to publish the HP series during the time of the Salem Witch Trials she probably would have found herself being hunted down like the rest of the ,supposed, witches.
What all of the examples amount to is the violence that ensued because people had different beliefs or views other than what was considered "normal" in society at the time. The "normal", of course, being driven by the powers that be at the time.
No, what we are experiencing is not at the same extreme level because of the world we now live in, but the base level is still the same.
The base level taking us back to different beliefs and views without the ability to be heard in the correct manner, and yes it does feel like a form of persecution.
Anndee Granger: Of course no one is dying because of this, but all in all we are being persecuted for our different beliefs. "Bloody" Mary Tudor, killed Protestants because she so hated their different views on Christ. This is an extreme indeed, but the mentality behind it, the vitrol, is the same.
jane 99 breaks up the party. You've got to admire her.:
I'm going to put this bluntly.
I read the article. It didn't make me feel ashamed to be an H/Hr shipper. I thought it was alright, actually, for what it was.
Then I read the responses to the article, posted in this very thread. I'm sorry to say that many of them DO make feel feel ashamed to be an H/Hr shipper.
No wonder other people find it easy to portray us as reactionary and vicious. Some of you bloody well are. That article was really quite reasonable. I certainly didn't feel offended or maligned, and if it wasn't as thorough as it could have been, I get the strong feeling that some of you wouldn't have been happy unless it trashed Emerson et al. as much many here feel he has trashed us.
There have been some sensible responses. I thought Ken's letter was great. But some were terribly reactionary and terribly childish. I'm not entirely impressed with Emerson either, but I see no need to wilfully, gleefully, drop to that level while parading under some sort of smug delusion - yes, delusion - that I am far superior in my behaviour.
and
This is exactly the type of thing that I'm talking about. When Emerson calls us delusional, he's a horrible person who should apologise immediately.
But it's alright for us to say that it's people like him who supported slavery (a much sillier, more vicious charge in my opinion). By our logic, he deserves an apology for that as well, not just a "sorry if it didn't make sense" fob off.
Isn't the fact that his apology was less than stellar one of the things that people are complaining about here? Doesn't that make people who post things like the above rather hypocritical?
Just think - it's the kind of comment above that COULD have been printed in that article.
myrhlyn: So, on our own website, we should watch what we say? I'm not supporting the slavery argument in any way (I agree that it is very vicious and out in left field), but I don't think we should be guarded in the company of friends. Emerson was in the wrong when he went to HMS Harmony, and copied and pasted quotes. It's hypocritical of many of us, who probably called JK similar names in the privacy of our homes, to suddenly condemn those people as "immature" and "reactionary". THEY WERE WITH FRIENDS. They probably expected no one else to read it. And not only that, they were from several weeks ago, and they were probably "gut reactions". Though I also swore at JK under my breath, I don't take those words to heart today. She's disappointed me, but I wouldn't call her a expletive today.
As for the slavery comment - How old is Panther? Emerson is legally an adult. Kids are allowed to say stupid things in the company of their friends. It's part of growing up. But adults, in an interview? Especially when he's supposedly representing a world-wide community? No, sorry, don't buy that. He knew what he was doing. He knew he was slamming a group of fans and making them look bad in front of JK. And he didn't help the matter with his "apology". I would expect better behavior from a college student.
However, Panther, if you are over 18, I rescind my excuse for you. Slavery was an oppressive movement for hundreds of years, resulting in the deaths of millions. I would hardly regard that with 'shipper treatment, nowadays. However, the schoolyard bully is a very appropriate analogy, in my opinion. Hopefully you understand the difference.
ETA 2: I've just been informed that Emerson has updated his Wall of Shame with some of the quotes from this Wank, and has featured
ahiru's Civil War icon. Check it all out here. (Scroll to the bottom of the page).Post a comment in response:
