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Dee (deeablo) wrote in fandom_wank,
@ 2003-03-20 10:34:00

Entry tags:

Being overweight is just like being a black disabled lesbian!
Er, or something. In the shiny American Idol fandom, some of its fans are none too happy about the treatment of a potential superstar. The contestant being discussed is Ruben Studdard, a big man with a big voice. Someone expressed dismay at the jokes made about his physical appearance and claimed that being labeled "fat" is just the same as calling African Americans "n*ggers". It only goes downhill from there. There's even a post about "turning gay." Where? At the next stoplight?

(Post a new comment)

	katemonkey 2003-03-20 05:47 pm UTC (link)
	There's a joke to be made about how the main person in this entire debate has the LJ name of "fruitbat", but...no, I won't make it. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	prettypinkkitty 2003-03-20 07:56 pm UTC (link)
	Hey man...s/he's Fruitbat the UNFLAPPABLE! Or, you know...hehe. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	hugsnkisses 2003-03-20 06:39 pm UTC (link)
	hee. Very Gay Clouds. Really this whole thing stems from uh, fruitbat, who is (apparently) over weight and is really arguing for herself. She's making it personal when her original intent seems to be 2nd party. Or something. shuts up (Reply to this)(Thread)

	misswindy 2003-03-20 07:06 pm UTC (link)
	Fruitbat is just going to have to cope with the possibility that ~~she~~ Ruben won't be winning American Idol this year. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

hugsnkisses
2003-03-20 07:11 pm UTC (link)

XD You seem to be popping up in alot of wanky threads recently, do you have some kind of secret kerfluffle radar that you're hiding from us? *looks suspicious*

It's interesting because we had exactly the same thing in both uk Pop Idol and Pop Stars. Each time there was someone who was well, fat and each time they didn't make it, because of their size.

It's a shame that society sees things that way, but if you're aiming for something like being an "Idol" then you've got to accept that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

misswindy, 2003-03-20 07:20 pm UTC

mirabellawotr
2003-03-20 07:03 pm UTC (link)

Yes, that's what happens when you turn gay! One minute you're all "Woman! Get me mah beer an' fix me some chicken pot pie! I've had a hard day at the construction site!" And then the Gay Clouds clear, and a Gay Moonbeam strikes you, and you growl and contort for a few minutes, and then you're all... "My heavens, this place is a mess! And who picked out these god-awful curtains?"

Bwahahaha! Weregays! It happens when you get bitten by Boy George.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	dawnjosephine 2003-03-20 07:31 pm UTC (link)
	I'm going to go look for weregays when the next full moon pops up. (Icon image credit goes to Buster Wilde. Arrooo!) *deleted the first post due to stupid misplaced tags. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

mirabellawotr, 2003-03-20 07:35 pm UTC

renjenri, 2003-03-21 08:32 am UTC

Re: -

mirabellawotr, 2003-03-21 08:35 am UTC

renjenri, 2003-03-21 08:37 am UTC

nita, 2003-03-20 07:58 pm UTC

	renjenri 2003-03-20 09:26 pm UTC (link)
	Or Christopher Lowell. Esp the curtains part of the manifestation. Don't be afraid of COLOR! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kyuuketsukirui, 2003-03-20 10:40 pm UTC

renjenri, 2003-03-20 11:22 pm UTC

tempslut, 2003-03-21 03:05 am UTC

	lm 2003-03-21 10:48 pm UTC (link)
	Dude, that is the exact description of what happened to me. Except the Boy George thing. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	nevadafighter 2003-03-20 07:45 pm UTC (link)
	Does this mean the next time someone calls me fat I can claim racism? bats eyes (Reply to this)(Thread)

	dawnjosephine 2003-03-20 08:05 pm UTC (link)
	nods You are an oppressed minority if someone calls you fat, congrats! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

darkrose, 2003-03-20 08:08 pm UTC

(no subject) - dawnjosephine, 2003-03-20 08:10 pm UTC

sorchar, 2003-03-21 05:13 am UTC

misswindy, 2003-03-20 08:11 pm UTC

sorchar, 2003-03-21 05:13 am UTC

telesilla, 2003-03-21 01:44 am UTC

Re: -

nevadafighter, 2003-03-20 10:45 pm UTC

sorchar, 2003-03-21 05:12 am UTC

	sagralisse 2003-03-20 08:25 pm UTC (link)
	The next time someone calls you fat, you can say "that's rude." (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: -

nevadafighter, 2003-03-20 10:46 pm UTC

sorchar, 2003-03-21 10:27 am UTC

lasayla, 2003-03-21 11:31 am UTC

Re: -

sorchar, 2003-03-21 12:42 pm UTC

	machiavellian 2003-03-20 08:12 pm UTC (link)
	I cannot believe that I spent an hour combing through that community and then the American Idol website. FW is evil. I can see that now. -.- (Reply to this)

	sagralisse 2003-03-20 08:23 pm UTC (link)
	I went through the thread and read just fruitbat's posts. IMO, she has a good argument and presented it in a reasonable and convincing manner. And yes, I'm fat. Thanks for asking! (Reply to this)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2003-03-20 08:54 pm UTC (link)

...so am I, and I still think she's acting like a bit of a whiny victim. The poster who said she's taking personal issues into a fan discussion had it right on the mark, IMO.

...but then perhaps you're being sarcastic. ahem.

That woman made me embarrassed on behalf of fat people. Some of us DO have a sense of perspective and proportion, honest we do.

(Just a reader, usually - flameage can be directed to climbingaswefall@yahoo.com)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

sagralisse, 2003-03-20 10:37 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-03-20 11:23 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-03-20 11:26 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-03-21 01:51 am UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-20 11:55 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-03-21 01:58 am UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-21 04:28 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-03-21 05:13 am UTC

	sorchar 2003-03-21 05:14 am UTC (link)
	Dude, we're all fat! Haven't you learned anything from Stormfreak? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kyuuketsukirui 2003-03-20 09:29 pm UTC (link)
	or now will people begin criticizing that clay looks too much like a gay heroin addict and the like? Now it's clear why I like Clay so much! Mmm...gay heroin addicts... Grace (Reply to this)(Thread)

misswindy
2003-03-20 10:27 pm UTC (link)

now will people begin criticizing that clay looks too much like a gay heroin addict

MmmmmClaymmmm...

The irony is, of course, that fruitbat has insinuated that the fact that Clay Aiken is ostensibly underweight automatically means that he looks like a heroin junkie. And that the fact that he's not traditionally macho and is a good musical theater performer means he "looks gay". Wank. Wank! WANK!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

mynxkittie
2003-03-20 09:42 pm UTC (link)

For a majority of the WESTERN world -- because fat people are picked on, made fun of, and discriminated against. And because society thinks that we are too big for stools, rather than realizing that the stools being too small for us.

Ruben should sue the stool manufacturers then. 'Cause it would be too easy to get a larger stool.

And what's with this "western world" bullshit? I've been to third world countries - a fat person is a fat person wherever you go.

Good God, this girl is just too fucking whiny. The world does not have to accomodate to you, because you do not make up a majority of the population! And there's a fat joke in that, but I'm not gonna make it, 'cause it would be too easy and possibly cruel.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	dawnjosephine 2003-03-20 10:05 pm UTC (link)
	I <3 your icon! (Reply to this)(Parent)

mpoetess
2003-03-20 10:13 pm UTC (link)

Man, I hate to drag the argument here, which is why I keep closing the window ;-) and keep coming back like a dweeb.

Ruben should sue the stool manufacturers then. 'Cause it would be too easy to get a larger stool.

The point being, it would be easy as hell for the producers of the show to buy a larger stool, too. Well, actually, the girl's original point was just that people in that LJ community were insulting Ruben for being overweight, and that behavior, when compared to insulting somebody for being any other thing that they *might* not be able to help, is rude.

Whether being overweight is curable with help or not (studies argue both sides, anecdotes argue both sides, I fall on the borderline of "It depends on the person, but for a large majority, no") hardly matters. "Ugly" people can get plastic surgery. Gay people can pretend to be straight to please others. People who feel oppressed because of their gender can get a sex change operation. Ethnic minorities don't have a lot of options, but Michael Jackson is sure doing his best to prove that even blackness is changeable if you throw enough money at it. Handicapped people can bring their own helpers to any function to carry them from their wheelchairs if there are no ramps.

Are all those ridiculous in terms of the amount and difficulty of change or money that you'd be asking from a person, just to fit in or not be discriminated against? Yes. So is the amount and difficulty of change in losing weight, especially if the losing of it is emotionally disruptive, especially if the losing of it can cause even *more* problems - physical, not just mental.

I think the girl was letting her activism out a bit too much, yeah -- but I think

misswindy's comment that she was too close to the subject to debate it rationally was unbelievably condescending, considering that everything she'd said up to that point was completely rational. It implied that arguing the subject at all was irrational, not matter what points she might have had. And yes, I have serious twitchy issues with people doing that in a discussion.

The world does not have to accomodate to you, because you do not make up a majority of the population!

Depending on how you define fat, overwieght people do make up a majority of the population -- but aside from that, no one accomodates to the majority. That's pretty much the meaning of the word accomodate: the majority takes steps to make things (both physical and societal) equally accessible even for people who aren't them.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

misswindy, 2003-03-20 10:24 pm UTC

mpoetess, 2003-03-20 10:40 pm UTC

misswindy, 2003-03-20 11:19 pm UTC

mpoetess, 2003-03-20 11:33 pm UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2003-03-21 08:44 am UTC

mpoetess, 2003-03-21 04:49 pm UTC

lm, 2003-03-21 11:00 pm UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-20 10:51 pm UTC

mpoetess, 2003-03-20 11:02 pm UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-20 11:27 pm UTC

mpoetess, 2003-03-20 11:30 pm UTC

singe, 2003-03-20 11:57 pm UTC

mpoetess, 2003-03-21 02:55 am UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-20 11:57 pm UTC

Re: -

mynxkittie, 2003-03-20 10:28 pm UTC

mpoetess, 2003-03-20 10:31 pm UTC

Re: -

mynxkittie, 2003-03-20 10:33 pm UTC

misswindy, 2003-03-20 11:20 pm UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-20 11:39 pm UTC

misswindy, 2003-03-20 10:34 pm UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-20 10:42 pm UTC

misswindy, 2003-03-20 11:16 pm UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-20 11:38 pm UTC

misswindy, 2003-03-20 11:59 pm UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-21 12:12 am UTC

mpoetess, 2003-03-20 11:39 pm UTC

misswindy, 2003-03-21 12:08 am UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-21 12:14 am UTC

mpoetess, 2003-03-21 02:28 am UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-21 04:37 am UTC

misswindy, 2003-03-21 05:18 am UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-21 05:48 am UTC

mpoetess, 2003-03-21 05:21 am UTC

sagralisse, 2003-03-21 05:50 am UTC

kyuuketsukirui, 2003-03-21 01:00 am UTC

misswindy, 2003-03-21 01:10 am UTC

lm, 2003-03-21 11:05 pm UTC

Re: -

mynxkittie, 2003-03-21 11:11 pm UTC

lm, 2003-03-24 11:23 am UTC

	sorchar 2003-03-21 05:17 am UTC (link)
	And what's with this "western world" bullshit? I've been to third world countries - a fat person is a fat person wherever you go. Well, yeah, but I think what she was thinking of is the fact that in some cultures, fat women are considered beautiful. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sagralisse 2003-03-20 10:46 pm UTC (link)
	What's that dirty debating tactic where you take your opponents argument and twist it into something extreme? I know it's ad-homenim (however that's spelled), because that's attacking the person rather than the argument. (Reply to this)

	lm 2003-03-24 11:12 am UTC (link)
	I know this is, like, way after-the-fact, but I meant to say something when I first read this and then forgot. Anyway: As far as the "turning gay" thing goes, some of us (myself included) actually did "turn" queer. (Reply to this)

	eternaltimtams 2003-03-25 10:08 am UTC (link)
	The real question is: Why aren't squids allowed to win American Idol? Stop anti-squidism now! (Reply to this)

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