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Disappear Here ([info]noexit) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2006-01-26 00:24:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:bannination, mod wank, pairing wars

How to create a wank out of... nothing

So, you could say that King Kong is not exactly a big fandom. It's not like HP, or Smallville or even House where you have two zillion fanfiction communities. There is [info]kingkongfanfics, though, which so far has been an enjoyable and resourceful place open to all kinds of fanfiction. In fact, the user info page reads "This is general fanfiction, so post your fiction regardless of pairing (or lack of pairing), everything you like. [...] I don't want to hear about how a specific pairing sucks, I don't want to hear if slash makes your stomach turn, I don't want people getting into rows over who Ann really loves." So, basically, a free for all, happy place.

Enter one of the moderators ([info]ladysapphirekym ) suddenly waking up one morning and thinking, 'So, I'm going to ban all OC fics'.

Apart from the fact that it doesn't quite agree with the community info, the most odd thing about this is that you'll have troubles finding even one single OC fic in the more than 100 posts of the community. So, why the ban?

It has, [info]ladysapphirekym insists, nothing whatsoever to do with her personal dislike of OC fic. Rather than that, OC fics are more trouble than they're worth. (How so? No idea! When asked, [info]ladysapphirekym simply doesn't reply.) And also, "most people who have responded have expressed absolutely no interest in reading OC fics, and there's little point having them here in that case".

So, what happens is some people agreeing, some saying they don't give a damn, and some screaming "censorship!".

And because fandom and democracy go hand-in-hand, the solution would be a poll which conveniently eliminates the 'I'm against banning of a certain type of fics against principle vote'.

And then it gets really heated, people hurling insults back and forth; and [info]ladysapphirekym admitting that a ban might be "hard to justify" but if anyone has a problem with it, well, it's "their loss".

And at the end of the day, everyone is wondering... what exactly was the point in all that?

ETA: Damn, they're quick with the delete button. Most of the entertaining insults are gone. Don't let what remains fool you into thinking this is a reasonable debate. :P (And it's it odd how along with the insults, some of the reasonable contra-ban comments have disappeared as well. Strange coincidence, that.)

ETA2: Some highlights from the deleted comments. Couldn't save the slam match that followed, sorry.
Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us
Wisdom of the day: "Great writers will have no problem with a rule like this, great writers don't have OCs in every fic they write."




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[info]mouseykins
2006-01-26 01:35 am UTC (link)
This is almost as surprising as the Golden Girls wank. I mean, it must be pretty hard to keep a fanbase of a series where the title character dies almost immediatly.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2006-01-26 06:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mouseykins, 2006-01-26 06:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2006-01-26 06:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mouseykins, 2006-01-26 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2006-01-26 06:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2006-01-26 09:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mouseykins, 2006-01-26 09:04 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 04:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2006-01-27 03:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]renata_hpjc, 2006-01-27 03:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2006-01-28 01:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiki, 2006-01-26 07:13 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 11:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2006-01-26 03:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2006-01-30 12:08 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 03:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 04:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyratejenni, 2006-01-26 07:19 pm UTC

[info]hickorydickory
2006-01-26 01:36 am UTC (link)
Perhaps an OC ran over her puppy?

(Reply to this)

_nebel
(Anonymous)
2006-01-26 01:39 am UTC (link)
Lolol I mod there, haha. We're internets famous now, yey. Uh.

(Reply to this)

ladysapphirekym
(Anonymous)
2006-01-26 01:43 am UTC (link)
Proud ^_^

My puppy is dead, my comm poke pins in my virtual eyes, and I sit back and lol because people took the time to link back to it all.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: ladysapphirekym - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 01:51 am UTC
ladysapphirekym - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 01:58 am UTC
Re: ladysapphirekym - [info]noexit, 2006-01-26 02:06 am UTC
Re: ladysapphirekym - [info]hickorydickory, 2006-01-26 03:55 am UTC
Re: ladysapphirekym - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 07:38 am UTC
Re: ladysapphirekym - [info]amasaglajax, 2006-01-26 08:39 am UTC
Re: ladysapphirekym - (Anonymous), 2006-01-28 12:03 pm UTC
Re: ladysapphirekym - (Anonymous), 2006-01-27 12:50 am UTC
Re: ladysapphirekym - [info]vigilanterodent, 2006-01-26 02:27 am UTC
Re: ladysapphirekym - hereforthewank, 2006-01-26 05:34 am UTC
Re: ladysapphirekym - [info]vigilanterodent, 2006-01-26 06:32 am UTC
Re: ladysapphirekym - [info]morbide_mind, 2006-01-26 06:55 am UTC
Re: ladysapphirekym - [info]luckdragonfujur, 2006-01-26 03:02 am UTC
Re: ladysapphirekym - [info]vengeance_bean, 2006-01-26 03:36 am UTC
Ladysapphirekym
(Anonymous)
2006-01-26 02:05 am UTC (link)
Delete delete delete. Next thing you know we'll be pretending the Eurasian war was with Eastasia.

Ouch, guess you'll have to find your fun somehwere else. ^_~

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]rotten_fish, 2006-01-26 02:14 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 03:04 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]smo, 2006-01-26 03:19 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 03:32 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]agent_hyatt, 2006-01-26 03:46 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]puipui, 2006-01-26 09:12 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]theamazingrando, 2006-01-26 03:20 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]vengeance_bean, 2006-01-26 03:33 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]theamazingrando, 2006-01-26 05:37 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]nlb_muffin, 2006-01-26 05:59 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]theamazingrando, 2006-01-26 06:31 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]cyanidecoffee, 2006-01-28 07:44 pm UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]nlb_muffin, 2006-01-28 11:16 pm UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]alpheratz, 2006-01-26 05:11 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]theamazingrando, 2006-01-26 05:35 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 08:47 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 11:32 am UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 04:16 pm UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 05:53 pm UTC
Re: Ladysapphirekym - [info]acrimonious, 2006-01-27 05:07 am UTC

[info]rotten_fish
2006-01-26 02:13 am UTC (link)
This is going to be one of those 'More wank in the comments than in the actual wank,' isn't it?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]theladyfeylene, 2006-01-26 02:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]singe, 2006-01-26 03:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pet, 2006-01-26 03:28 pm UTC
_Nebel
(Anonymous)
2006-01-26 02:15 am UTC (link)
Damn, they're quick with the delete button.
Sorry that was me. They were defying my authority and all, I had to be a brat about it. Aren't there any spatting HermionexHarry fans about for you to poke at?

I'm not really replying to say that though, I just want to say lol icon lol love.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: _Nebel - [info]noexit, 2006-01-26 02:21 am UTC
Re: _Nebel - [info]beccastareyes, 2006-01-26 02:38 am UTC
Re: _Nebel - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 02:50 am UTC
Re: _Nebel - [info]luckdragonfujur, 2006-01-26 02:57 am UTC
Re: _Nebel - [info]nlb_muffin, 2006-01-26 06:00 am UTC
Re: _Nebel - [info]luckdragonfujur, 2006-01-26 06:17 am UTC
Boobies? Boobies! ;_; - [info]artimusdin, 2006-01-26 06:45 am UTC
Re: Boobies? Boobies! ;_; - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 07:53 am UTC
Re: Boobies? Boobies! ;_; - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 05:54 pm UTC
Re: Boobies? Boobies! ;_; - [info]judyhazeleyes, 2006-01-26 09:31 pm UTC
Re: Boobies? Boobies! ;_; - [info]artimusdin, 2006-01-26 09:34 pm UTC
Re: Boobies? Boobies! ;_; - [info]teruhiko, 2006-01-27 11:32 pm UTC
Re: _Nebel - [info]mouseybrown, 2006-01-26 12:46 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-01-26 02:53 am UTC (link)
Oh, wonderful. Wanky mice. Just what we all need.

-TR

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]luckdragonfujur, 2006-01-26 02:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]telesilla, 2006-01-26 04:35 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 07:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]telesilla, 2006-01-26 10:38 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-28 12:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]doomsday, 2006-01-26 03:15 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-27 12:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frequentmouse, 2006-01-27 04:20 am UTC

[info]doomsday
2006-01-26 03:14 am UTC (link)
Is it weird that I wish, for shits and giggles, that there had been some militant pro-OC member to vehemently protest the ban?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]noexit, 2006-01-26 03:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]doomsday, 2006-01-26 03:43 am UTC
(no subject) - jenova, 2006-01-26 03:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]doomsday, 2006-01-26 04:03 am UTC
(no subject) - jenova, 2006-01-26 04:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]figgy, 2006-01-26 05:03 am UTC
(no subject) - jenova, 2006-01-26 05:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]justicepeckham, 2006-01-26 03:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]noexit, 2006-01-26 03:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]doomsday, 2006-01-26 04:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]noexit, 2006-01-26 04:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]doomsday, 2006-01-26 04:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tavalya_ra, 2006-01-26 06:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nebbieq, 2006-01-26 05:20 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-01-26 03:45 am UTC (link)
While I agree that the mods are being beyond wanky, it is their comm and as such I don't see why the people in it are raising such a fuss.

- J.

(Reply to this)


[info]drworm
2006-01-26 04:00 am UTC (link)
Whoa...

Okay, so all I want to know is: is there any Carl/Preston and is it any good?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 07:54 am UTC
! - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 09:00 am UTC
Re: ! - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 06:15 pm UTC
Re: ! - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 07:50 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-01-26 04:06 am UTC (link)
Finally! Nearly all of my fandoms have now been wanked. Although I wouldn't call "KIng Kong" a small fandom; it probably doesn't come up so often because, when you think about it, it's a very OLD fandom, dating all the way back to 1933.

- J.Molo (aka spawn_of_kong on LJ)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tavalya_ra, 2006-01-26 06:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]chaoscheebs, 2006-01-26 07:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tavalya_ra, 2006-01-26 08:06 am UTC

jenova
2006-01-26 04:15 am UTC (link)
I think, if I were in that comm, I would feel the strong urge to find screencaps of the movie, pick random characters out in crowd scenes, and post the pictures up with a whole series of "man on the street" vignettes. They're not OCs! They were totally in the movie! See, this blur in this screencap, this is totally my character!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]rosehiptea, 2006-01-26 05:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]felinephoenix, 2006-01-26 06:39 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 03:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]souris, 2006-01-26 03:50 pm UTC

[info]marumae
2006-01-26 05:03 am UTC (link)
Well I must say she wrote a really really long, emotion filled post in her journal about being fandom wanked.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2006-01-26 05:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nlb_muffin, 2006-01-26 06:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2006-01-26 06:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nlb_muffin, 2006-01-26 06:30 am UTC
Wildly OT... - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 07:20 am UTC
Re: Wildly OT... - [info]marumae, 2006-01-26 07:51 am UTC
Re: Wildly OT... - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 07:53 am UTC
Re: Wildly OT... - [info]marumae, 2006-01-26 08:02 pm UTC
Re: Wildly OT... - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 08:08 pm UTC
Re: Wildly OT... - [info]marumae, 2006-01-27 02:35 am UTC
Re: Wildly OT... - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-27 03:09 am UTC
Re: Wildly OT... - dracothelizard, 2006-01-26 02:42 pm UTC
Re: Wildly OT... - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-27 03:09 am UTC
Re: Wildly OT... - dracothelizard, 2006-01-27 01:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jyuu, 2006-01-27 01:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2006-01-27 02:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jyuu, 2006-01-27 04:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]xero_sky, 2006-01-26 06:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nlb_muffin, 2006-01-26 07:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2006-01-26 08:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jyuu, 2006-01-27 01:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nlb_muffin, 2006-01-27 03:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]felinephoenix, 2006-01-26 06:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2006-01-26 07:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nlb_muffin, 2006-01-26 07:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcity, 2006-01-26 06:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drworm, 2006-01-26 06:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]drworm, 2006-01-26 06:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2006-01-26 07:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ravenscanary, 2006-01-26 08:19 pm UTC

[info]pepperlandgirl4
2006-01-26 05:50 am UTC (link)
Now if only ladysapphirekym would fake her death on el-jay...

(Reply to this)


[info]mcity
2006-01-26 06:11 am UTC (link)
The frick does one crosslink from JF to LJ, other than manually?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ixtab, 2006-01-27 01:57 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-28 12:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ixtab, 2006-01-28 07:43 pm UTC

[info]felinephoenix
2006-01-26 06:38 am UTC (link)
Man, I am in love ^_~ with ladysapphirekim's bitchy little emoticons. ^_~

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]tiki, 2006-01-26 07:20 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 09:20 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 04:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]hickorydickory, 2006-01-26 10:57 pm UTC

[info]tavalya_ra
2006-01-26 06:42 am UTC (link)
I'm pretty sure I'm going to hell for wondering if this kruffle (which I am sure I mispelled, feel free to ritually flog and mock me) was about someone writing Ann/Kong before I read the post.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 06:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tavalya_ra, 2006-01-26 07:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 07:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tavalya_ra, 2006-01-26 07:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 07:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tavalya_ra, 2006-01-26 07:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nlb_muffin, 2006-01-26 07:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 07:48 am UTC
Joins in proudly - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 09:31 am UTC
Re: Joins in proudly - [info]harrylovesron, 2006-01-26 03:25 pm UTC

[info]morbide_mind
2006-01-26 07:00 am UTC (link)
"I don't want people getting into rows over who Ann really loves."

:double headdesk:

Please tell me there aren't any fics out there where Ann gets funky with the monkey.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 07:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]baskinglizard, 2006-01-27 03:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-27 03:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]felinephoenix, 2006-01-26 07:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]baskinglizard, 2006-01-27 03:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tavalya_ra, 2006-01-26 07:47 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 08:08 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 08:17 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 08:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 08:32 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 11:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rotten_fish, 2006-01-26 04:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nebbieq, 2006-01-26 05:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 08:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]skarrow, 2006-01-26 08:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-28 12:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mouseybrown, 2006-01-26 12:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mouseybrown, 2006-01-26 12:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]morbide_mind, 2006-01-26 02:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mouseybrown, 2006-01-26 03:06 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nebbieq, 2006-01-26 05:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]morbide_mind, 2006-01-26 05:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nebbieq, 2006-01-26 05:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mouseybrown, 2006-01-26 06:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]singe, 2006-01-26 07:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2006-01-27 02:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]phosfate, 2006-01-26 11:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-27 09:22 pm UTC
Great writers
[info]life_on_mars
2006-01-26 09:25 am UTC (link)
"Great writers will have no problem with a rule like this, great writers don't have OCs in every fic they write."

Okay. [Navigating carefully.] So an OC is an 'original character' in this context? Not Orange County or anything I don't understand?

Then I have to inform this person that great writers write nothing but original characters. (Let's keep discussions about Shakespeare plagiarising from Holinshed etc. out of this; what I mean is that they'll write them well enough to make you think they're original characters.)

There are some really, really fine writers about in fandom and whether the majority of them use original characters or not, I'm not equipped to say. However, not one of them even approaches the epithet 'great'; I feel that should be reserved for that happy elite of writers who are universally acknowledged to be the finest in the world.

How about this as a yardstick? If someone teaches a course about your work at school, college or university you can legitimately claim to be 'great'. Otherwise, you're just 'good'.

Just felt like stirring, to get the taste of the fake-death wank out of my mouth, but I want to make the point that it's difficult to know to what extent one can trust the literary judgment of someone who makes sweeping generalisations like that quoted above. Sigh.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Great writers - [info]life_on_mars, 2006-01-26 09:26 am UTC
Re: Great writers - (Anonymous), 2006-01-26 05:10 pm UTC
Re: Great writers - [info]life_on_mars, 2006-01-27 12:40 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-01-26 10:14 am UTC (link)
My favorite part was how she started out all, "What do you think? I'm just considering it. Tell me how you feel, please." And then she ended up pretty much telling the members of her comm to suck it. Good job, Ladysapphirekym. Way to inspire the troops.

Maybe she's just grumpy because she has to type out that long-ass name all the time. One go for me and I'm bitchy as hell.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-01-26 11:38 am UTC (link)
I really don't see how she can bitch about OC's. With a name like ladysapphirekym she just reeks of "OMGMARYSUELOVE". See, here's the check list:

Awesomely cool-important title: check
Gem in name: check
Weird spelling of a normal name: check
It MUST be my way: check

And yes, she's the mod (head mod?). She can change the rules and she can do it dramatically and fast and with out reason. It doesn't mean she should.

(Reply to this)


[info]suzycat
2006-01-26 12:32 pm UTC (link)
I just have to point out that when I first saw this post, I had this vision of the King Kong fandom trying to sneak stories about Ryan and Seth in and being banninated. "No Marissa!"

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]pope_shane, 2006-01-26 12:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]suzycat, 2006-01-26 01:21 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-01-26 12:46 pm UTC (link)
That mental image is wrong on so many levels... not to mention physically impossible..
OMG now I'm going to wonder all day HOW they would pull it off.
disturbing… I need a lobotomy… HELP!!!!

Sniperkitty

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]nebbieq, 2006-01-26 05:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]morbide_mind, 2006-01-26 05:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]vuirneen, 2006-01-27 12:25 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-27 02:20 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-27 10:45 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-01-28 12:21 pm UTC

[info]simkin_mouse
2006-01-26 04:00 pm UTC (link)
So, you could say that King Kong is not exactly a big fandom. It's not like HP, or Smallville...

Depending on what BNF you ask, HP isn't so much a big fandom as a small business.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2006-01-26 04:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]simkin_mouse, 2006-01-26 08:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nebbieq, 2006-01-26 05:07 pm UTC


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