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VV (sharonapple) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2006-02-05 22:42:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:Amazed
Current music:Tainaka Sachi - Disillusion
Entry tags:anime/manga, illegality, think of the fictional children, your kink is not okay

To Loli, or not to Loli? Internet Law and Anime Girls
Down over on the Hongfire forums, where one can help themselves to fanservice or outright hentai wanking material, there is a big kerfuffle over the ever controversial subject of Loli. For those of you who aren't familiar with the term, Loli is (broadly speaking) anime/manga pornography with very young females. Shota, is the male equivalent.

The Story? Last month, moderator Shragei posted that after much research, they had deduced that Lolicon was in violation of United States law. Seeing as I only poke around Hongfire for the random TypeMoon books, the occasional pretty CG, and am not a Loli fan, I didn't really give this much more than a passing glance. Unfortunately, this meant that I missed 13 pages of glorious spooge. Take a gander at some of the intraweb lawyering, the "omg u guyrs r sick for liking loli", and the "OMG there's nothing wrong with it stop persecuting me!", "this is great for breaking my obsessions with porn!", and "This is a dark day on Hongfire."

Then, two days ago, Para announced that the Loli gallery was reinstated because apparently it is legal. Naturally, everyone starts bickering again. There is weirdness about whether or not HF is hosted in Australia (where Loli is illegal) or the U.S, or (as they are actually hosted in the U.S.) if the owner (wo lives in Australia) should follow the rules of their home country, even though the server is elsewhere. More intraweb-lawyering, and somewhere around the end Ayunite and karenSP go at it. Geohound03 also gets his panties in a twist, saying that the mods shouldn't have made the mistake of removing it in the first place-- and if they wanted to remove it- they should have damn well left it removed!



Ayunite: Originally Posted by zellkaiser
Loli is just wrong imo >.> I mean ya its art of .. children. but even still you know what its reflecting so its just wrong. People who like it need to go to a psyche ward imo.


Lisa Hayes
- flamebait... we don't do that here.


Thank you. I'm glad someone said it. I'm sure more people want to step up and say something but they're too afraid.

I think most countries don't find lolicon hentai relevant because they don't know it exisists, these people don't watch anime or read manga.

Since the loli section wasn't real I didn't really care. If you don't like it then don't look at it. To be honest with you I rather have lolicons looking at this fictional material than harming an innocent child.

But...I think it's wrong. I don't know kids and sex don't mix with me. It's wrong like eatting human flesh or having sex with your mom. That's my opinion.

It's not my webpage, but I highly recommend you remove it because if anti pedo groups catch you they will try to shut you down.


At least Hongfire admin and mods are doing their research and paying attention to their members. I respect that. But, I do not respect pedos.



karenSP's reply: This is another reason why I think anti-loli people should be perma-banned from the website. They argue their point's while ignoring ANY points that are said in defense of loli. Go away please, reading your "opinion" caused me to lose braincells. For the sake of my braincells, don't bother posting your opinion again.
</center> Those two keep wanking until the end of page seven, although before that, karenSP makes an overgeneralization and assumes Ayunite is one of them Christian people who hate porn:

karenSP: Unless hongfire is forcing people to look at the **** then whether you think that it is "MORALLY RIGHT" or not is all a load of irrelivant bull ****. For christ sakes, it's pencil and colored art with extreme exaggerations and unrealistic characteristics. This is a ****ing hentai site not a christian forum. Don't you guys think you are overreacting? You make it sound like we sit on the HF-loli forum and brag about the 6 year old girl next door. This is exactly how christans are, they refuse to listen to ANYTHING that is even remotely against what they believe and exaggerate all situations to better their arguement.

Around page seven, geohound03 resurfaces and screams at everyone for not listening to him and taking him out of context because they are Loli fanboys. I think he misunderstands karenSP's spooging at Ayunite, for spooge directed at himself.

Finally, Lisa Hayes is fed up and closes the thread.

Harhar, wank in a hentai forum. Who didn't see that coming?



(Post a new comment)


[info]slackerbitch
2006-02-06 07:03 am UTC (link)
The "13 glorious pages of splooge" link is coming up 403: Forbidden / not authorized to view this page.

Do you have to register at the site in order to see the wank?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


sharonapple
2006-02-06 07:10 am UTC (link)
Strange.. it works for me when I'm logged out, and I checked with another friend who doesn't have an account at HF and she can see it fine. Though damn, this reminds me I forgot to link the new spooge. *goes to edit*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]slackerbitch, 2006-02-06 07:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]willywanka, 2006-02-06 07:47 am UTC
(no subject) - sharonapple, 2006-02-06 07:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]willywanka, 2006-02-06 08:12 am UTC

[info]mouseykins
2006-02-06 07:05 am UTC (link)
Flame me if you will, but I can't really see too many problems with Loli. They're drawings, not real people. One of the reasons child pornography is illegal is because it's sexual abuse. The fact that these aren't real people takes away that law, leaving drawings.
My rule with sexual kinks is that if it isn't harming someone, it's fine by me.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]moonjaguar
2006-02-06 07:18 am UTC (link)
I feel the same way. I prefer not to look at them but they're cartoons, drawings, not real children. And most anime/manga, the people depicted look childlike/teenlike to me most of the time anyway. I think it was Gravitation where a character's age was given as 30 and I thought, coulda fooled me!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mouseykins, 2006-02-06 07:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ruby_tuesday, 2006-02-06 07:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nekoneko, 2006-02-06 07:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2006-02-06 05:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sheep, 2006-02-06 04:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2006-02-06 05:25 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-02-06 07:14 am UTC (link)
I believe that the law is on the "as long as it's not real children, it's okay" side. It's like how you can't be prosecuted for writing/drawing rape. There is no actual crime being committed.

I don't like loli or shota, but it *is* better than real children. ::shrugs::

(Reply to this)(Thread)


(Anonymous)
2006-02-06 07:55 pm UTC (link)
^fatolliecat

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2006-02-06 07:26 am UTC (link)
I don't think it should be *illegal*, but if a site wants to ban it, they can. It is pretty darn icky. Of course, many think getting off on cartoons is icky.

-lazarus gerbil

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-02-06 07:43 am UTC (link)
Call me a fuddy duddy but adults sexually fantisizing about children whether it's depicted in RL or in cartoons sounds, well, dodgy wouldn't be putting to fine a spin on it. I also worry that communities end up normalising this kind of thing - I know since being on the internet I've quickly gone from being surprised as to what's out there to being jaded by it all.

Okay, sure, a pencil drawing is not going to be harmed, but what about the harm to the person continually viewing depictions of children for sexual gratification?

Cartoons, it's the gateway drug! Da, da, dummm! See, this is why I stick to dating soft toys, ha!

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]stella_polaris
2006-02-07 10:23 pm UTC (link)
I agree.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


(Anonymous)
2006-02-06 08:12 am UTC (link)
I can see where legal concerns can come from since a lot of governments especially the U.S. are expanding their pornography laws. Even mundane mainstream erotica/porn is getting confused and unsure as to where they legally stand. As for the morality of depicting sexualizing of minors in illustrated art, that is a different can of wanking worms, and a very full squirmy one.
A good mod would have done their research before the decision and announcement then stuck to their guns Yeash, waffling wank.

WitcheryBitchery

(Reply to this)


[info]dragonkit
2006-02-06 08:16 am UTC (link)
Is it wrong that this wank makes me want to go and look at some shota?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]annabelle_lee
2006-02-06 12:28 pm UTC (link)
If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right. Sadly, someone at the shota comm. on LJ squicked the fuck out of me by posting something and not labelling why it was NWS, so now I don't really go there anymore. Uggggh.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dragonkit, 2006-02-06 06:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]crysiana, 2006-02-06 08:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]annabelle_lee, 2006-02-07 01:22 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-10 05:49 am UTC

[info]secondarygain
2006-02-06 08:36 am UTC (link)
But...I think it's wrong. I don't know kids and sex don't mix with me. It's wrong like eating human flesh or having sex with your mom.

Funny. Hentai manga exists that involves all of those.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-02-06 03:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]emiweebee, 2006-02-06 05:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-02-06 08:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]secondarygain, 2006-02-06 08:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-02-06 09:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]yaoiko, 2006-02-07 02:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squeekirie, 2006-02-07 11:11 pm UTC

[info]wrongly_amused
2006-02-06 09:04 am UTC (link)
I love the "all Christians are so closeminded!" speech. It's so deliciously ironic.

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2006-02-06 11:12 am UTC (link)
Oh, for - SHOTA != CHILD PORN. SERIOUSLY.

I'm never sure whether to laugh or cry when I see shotacon splooge. Makes me die a little inside every time.

m_minna

(Reply to this)


[info]gun
2006-02-06 01:21 pm UTC (link)
I can see the arguments that it might be one of those things viewed by closeted paedophiles that might see them progress to real child porn. Or something. I read about that in a psych text book. Or it might have been the back of a cereal box, I don't know.

The important thing is, these people are all going to die one day.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]silrana, 2006-02-06 05:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - sharonapple, 2006-02-06 06:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-06 08:03 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2006-02-06 08:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]silrana, 2006-02-06 10:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-02-06 10:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]silrana, 2006-02-06 11:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-07 12:02 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-07 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-02-07 07:19 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-08 05:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squeekirie, 2006-02-07 11:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-02-08 12:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squeekirie, 2006-02-08 01:15 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-07 01:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]silrana, 2006-02-07 03:13 am UTC

[info]smo
2006-02-06 02:55 pm UTC (link)
It's wrong like eatting human flesh or having sex with your mom.

I have nothing else to add to that statement, so I am going to point out that "eating" only has one "t."

Thank you and good day.

(Reply to this)


[info]adora_spintriae
2006-02-06 04:09 pm UTC (link)
JESUS DOES ANYONE READ MY POSTS???

Jesus: No, not even Dad.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]smo, 2006-02-06 04:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-07 06:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]smo, 2006-02-07 02:56 pm UTC

[info]reeve
2006-02-06 04:47 pm UTC (link)
Unless hongfire is forcing people to look at the **** then whether you think that it is "MORALLY RIGHT" or not is all a load of irrelivant bull ****. (etc.)

There's something inherently hilarious about someone who censors their swear words in a discussion about fucking hentai, especially when they're defending it.

(Reply to this)


[info]mcity
2006-02-06 05:08 pm UTC (link)
This is exactly how christans are, they refuse to listen to ANYTHING that is even remotely against what they believe and exaggerate all situations to better their arguement
No, that's just bad debaters. Like you.

karenSP's reply: This is another reason why I think anti-loli people should be perma-banned from the website. They argue their point's while ignoring ANY points that are said in defense of loli. Go away please, reading your "opinion" caused me to lose braincells. For the sake of my braincells, don't bother posting your opinion again.
WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE HYPOCRISY!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]doroc_sabah, 2006-02-06 06:45 pm UTC

[info]ecchaniz0r
2006-02-06 06:20 pm UTC (link)
*SNORTDIE*

I find it funny that this wank comes up after I'm just after telling an older fan that my liking to read the Loveless manga doesn't mean I'm going to up and start lusting after her bratty preteen sons. =.=

It's like Self Righteous Fap Month, or something. Honestly. Shouta and Loli are not my cuppa, but if someone else wants to read them I'm not going to beat them with a phone book for doing so. XD

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]harrylovesron, 2006-02-06 07:55 pm UTC

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]amxjm, 2006-02-06 08:10 pm UTC

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]jadefox, 2006-02-08 12:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2006-02-07 08:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-09 06:12 am UTC

(Deleted post)
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-09 07:05 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-02-06 10:15 pm UTC (link)
But...I think it's wrong. I don't know kids and sex don't mix with me. It's wrong like eatting human flesh or having sex with your mom. That's my opinion.

One word: Oedipus.

Several words: I could also mention Chrysippus and point out that both of those are part of the same legend. So... Kids and sex? Check. Sex with mom? Check. Eating human flesh? Che- well, you got me there, although I suspect one would find that, too, if s/he'd bother to search. The Greek surely knew how to have fun.

And those people complain about Loli and shota.

~KK~

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kelmendi, 2006-02-07 12:00 am UTC
(no subject) - sharonapple, 2006-02-07 01:18 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-07 05:17 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-07 11:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mucktron, 2006-02-07 05:26 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-07 11:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-02-07 07:27 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-02-07 12:06 pm UTC

[info]oxydosic
2006-02-06 10:15 pm UTC (link)
To be honest Loli and Shota both creep me out. If someone gets off on seeing children in sexual situations, it really makes me wonder about someone's mental state. Seeing kids as sex objects in any way is just...ick.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - sharonapple, 2006-02-07 01:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]oxydosic, 2006-02-07 01:22 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-02-07 12:05 am UTC (link)
Oh, gosh. And I used to be at that forum, too.

(Reply to this)


 
   
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