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sairobi (sairobi) wrote in fandom_wank,
@ 2006-05-12 22:48:00

FFXI RMT Wankaga
A little background: Final Fantasy XI is a MMORPG like World of Warcraft or Everquest. And like WoW and EQ, FFXI forums are environments hostile to all forms of intelligent discussion. Among the myriad of triggers that drive players into a frenzy of wank, the grandaddy of them all is the subject of Real Money Trade (RMT). RMT, or gilselling, is the practice of making real-life bank off selling in-game money ('gil' in FFXI).*

The wank gets off to a tl;dr start when the OP makes brave and controversial statment: "I support gil buying". The OP, a high level EVERYTHING, basically reasons that he'd rather party with a gil-buyer with great equipment than someone who doesn't buy gil and has sub-par equipment. Besides, OP is filthy rich in-game, and the struggles of petty mortals to earn money don't really concern him.

Everything is chugging along fairly reasonably until Dragonbruce drops the S bomb: "That attitude is why slavery lasted as long as it did." The OP quickly assures him that RMT is absolutely not like slavery, and things return to deceptive calm.

Then! From out of nowhere! Two pages rich in wank staples, including: Bizzare metaphors! "I'm taking my toys and leaving!" Flagrant violations of Godwin's Law! And my personal favorite, INTRANET DEBATES ON RELATIVISM.

About the only things we're missing here are ship wars and 'hed is pastede on yay' for a complete wank diet.

*Yes, real money exchanged for fake money. I know I just broke a lot of brains there, but I think a lot of people (including myself) begin to see it as a viable option when they realize that Asshat +1 they're salivating over will literally take weeks of repetitive farming/crafting/mining to earn.

(Read comments) - (Post a new comment)

chikane
2006-05-13 06:53 am UTC (link)

Well, I don't know, but the slavery thing isn't so far from the truth, actually. The working conditions of these who do the mindnumbing goldmaking these days is indeed pretty horrible. You might not be aware of that and the whole "chinese farmer" thing though.

To be honest, this whole thing is also why I don't enjoy these games anymore. Without paying real money to play the game you can't play it after buying, and to continue playing it properly, you either need to spend gazillion hours to get the money to buy items with extremely inflated prices thanks to the cheap money...or spend more real money.
Either that, or your equip is deemed "bad" and you won't be allowed to go to the funky places.
I remember a game, Ragnarok Online, where these farmers basically destroyed all the fun there was in a lot of maps because they made these maps basically unplayable.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	wankismyfandom 2006-05-13 07:48 am UTC (link)
	Well, I don't know, but the slavery thing isn't so far from the truth, actually. No. Get some perspective and try again. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	chikane 2006-05-13 08:36 am UTC (link)
	Knee-jerk reactions are funny :) I do have it, I think you should read and try again. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	wankismyfandom 2006-05-13 08:52 am UTC (link)
	No, you don't. It's a game. If they don't like making gold all day, they can stop. Slaves couldn't. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

chikane
2006-05-13 09:19 am UTC (link)

Oh dear. Oh dear. That is why I ask you again to read again, you still don't comprehend the problem. Yeah, some random person who decided to sell their stuff? All good. That's not what this is about though.

You obviously are not familiar with the concept of wage slaves.
Yeah, these people could stop doing it though. And what then? You are aware of the current situation in several of the affected nations, aren't you?

Buy your gil. I didn't attack you for that. I simply point out that, in reality, the comparison between the work conditions of the average gold farmer and slavery is perfectly valid. If you cannot handle that simple truth, this is your problem. Don't blame me for it. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kittikattie 2006-05-13 09:27 am UTC (link)
	I'll use small equasions. MMORPG = Not slavery. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

chikane, 2006-05-13 09:54 am UTC

qatharsis, 2006-05-13 11:33 am UTC

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-13 06:01 pm UTC

chikane, 2006-05-13 07:12 pm UTC

qatharsis, 2006-05-14 02:22 am UTC

kittikattie, 2006-05-14 03:36 am UTC

qatharsis, 2006-05-15 05:30 am UTC

stopthatgirl7, 2006-05-15 08:33 am UTC

mcity, 2006-05-24 02:20 am UTC

amasaglajax, 2006-05-14 09:07 pm UTC

kittikattie, 2006-05-13 05:59 pm UTC

wankismyfandom
2006-05-13 06:59 pm UTC (link)

No, I understand what you are saying. I read the article you posted to

kittiekattie and the NYT article that

bubba_ray posted, too. I just still don't think it compares at all. If we're going to crusade for economic justice in third-world countries, I'd start by worrying about children in factories with massive dangerous unshielded machinery, not guys in a room with some computers.

Buy your gil. I didn't attack you for that.

Way to jump to conclusions. I don't even play any of these damn games. I just think you don't have any idea what you're talking about when you whip out slavery as a comparison.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

chikane, 2006-05-13 07:06 pm UTC

wankismyfandom, 2006-05-13 07:17 pm UTC

ecchaniz0r, 2006-05-14 12:17 pm UTC

	kittikattie 2006-05-13 08:31 am UTC (link)
	Well, I don't know, but the slavery thing isn't so far from the truth, actually. Something tells me my ancestors weren't out in the fields signing on from sunup to sundown to earn gold for Massa's Lv 45 Moogle, okay? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	chikane 2006-05-13 08:39 am UTC (link)
	Slavery as a term isn't reserved to black people working in fields, though. The term is a lot older, and means a lot more, okay? http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3141815 A sweatshop is a sweatshop is a sweatshop. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kittikattie
2006-05-13 09:25 am UTC (link)

I bet the Greeks, the Africans enslaved by Africans, the Vietamese, the Irish, The Italians, the Isralite, the Harmonians, the Neopets and EVERYONE ELSE who is invaritably brought up whenever somone says slavery and mentions black people being involved (because heaven forbid people be reminded that black slavery was a horrible violation of civil rights--nope we have to point to everyone else too, because yay equal rights for oppresion!) also didn't have to earn gold for someone on an MMORPG.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

chikane
2006-05-13 09:52 am UTC (link)

And again, the thoughtless froth-in-mouth how-dare-you response.

I can only repeat myself, which is getting rather boring. Again I mention a simple concept. Wage slave. How about, instead of jumping up and down angrily, you just look up what it actually means?
A wage slave can denote a worker who has no choice in who they work for, or in the type of job they can get; either due to economic and geographic circumstances, or due to personal lack of competence or education.
Took me 10 seconds in google.

A very simple definition of a very simple concept. Because, we all know, when faced with the decision to either starve or work in sweatshops(which, in other words, means work in harmful enviroments, sleep, and continue said work), it is definitely free will to work!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2006-05-13 05:51 pm UTC (link)
	Yes, but isn't a wage slave compared to an actual slave in the same way that a grammar Nazi is compared to an actual Nazi (i.e., a humorously overblown comparison)? - yoshitsune on LJ (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

greenling, 2006-05-13 05:56 pm UTC

kittikattie
2006-05-13 05:56 pm UTC (link)

Most people who casually toss out the word "slave" probably weren't affected by slavery on many levels.

I will repeat myself.

People having to play a game they wanted to play to make fake money is nothing like slavery. If they don't want to play for their money, on a game they DECIDED to sign up for, it is NOT like being forced to work for money or being a slave.

What you are doing is claiming that when a child whines that there's starving because dinner's not done for another 30 minutes, it's just like people who actually ARE starving.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

sithwitch13, 2006-05-14 03:01 pm UTC

sithwitch13, 2006-05-14 03:03 pm UTC

kittikattie, 2006-05-14 04:21 pm UTC

	puipui 2006-05-14 07:38 am UTC (link)
	A wage slave can denote a worker who has no choice in who they work for, or in the type of job they can get; Except that you're talking about a fucking computer game. And therefore the workers in question quite obviously have a choice, in that they can stop playing the fucking computer game. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	darkrose 2006-05-14 07:46 am UTC (link)
	You missed this part from the article: For all the so-called virtual sweatshops discovered, a lot of these young men and boys don't mind their jobs, and they aren't exactly working in sweatshop conditions. There's a world of difference between making sneakers and watching bots fight all day. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	heddychaa 2006-06-06 07:04 am UTC (link)
	I'm actually friends with a guy who you could call a "Chinese miner". He sits in a comfy chair all damn day playing videogames and makes money for it. Whether or not he has an option isn't the whole point: it's the fact that even if he's "forced" into the job, the job ISN'T THAT FUCKING BAD. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	palabradot 2006-05-14 03:29 am UTC (link)
	chokes Win. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	khym_chanur 2006-05-14 09:03 pm UTC (link)
	Something tells me my ancestors weren't out in the fields signing on from sunup to sundown to earn gold for Massa's Lv 45 Moogle, okay? Bwahahahahaha!!! snort (Reply to this)(Parent)

bubba_ray
2006-05-13 11:58 am UTC (link)

I would kindly request you removing your head from your arse and look around.

As said, Goldfarming in an MMORPG is not slavery.

Yes the working conditions in many of these sweat shops are pretty nasty to us 'spoiled' westerners. But in comparison to most of the other workers these people have a moderately easy job with great pay, its a pretty damn good job.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/09/technology/09gaming.html?ex=1291784400&en=a723d0f8592dff2e&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Linky from the NYT, no registration needed. Lets try to actually argue based on something resembling facts, not "I made that up on spot"

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	chikane 2006-05-13 07:09 pm UTC (link)
	Reading Comprehension. "isn't so far from the truth" =/= "goldfarming is slavery". I think I should just copypaste that to all the replying wank to my little comment there. I think you need to remove one head out of your butt :) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

bubba_ray
2006-05-14 06:26 am UTC (link)

It's a very very awkward comparison that just hurts the point you are making, especially since I saw a video documentary of a sweatshop where the people were bloody happy to have that job (sorry could not dig up the link there, and I dont actually care enough to try for more then 2 minutes).

I repead my main point: MMORPG sweatshops seem on the average better then other jobs in the area's they are in.

Now lets everyone commence the head removal acrobatics. ;)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	verpon 2006-05-14 11:24 am UTC (link)
	I've just been going through my bookmarks trying to find a movie like that, I believe it must have been the same one you mention. I think I found it via joystiq (Reply to this)(Parent)

	iwanttobeasleep 2006-05-14 05:44 am UTC (link)
	Um? Those jobs pay really well for the Chinese (remember exchange rates!), and they can quit at any time if it's that bad. Nothing like slavery at all. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	stopthatgirl7 2006-05-15 08:41 am UTC (link)
	Also, in that article linked above? It says that the people doing the job don't want to do hard labor. Funny, slaves didn't really have a choice in the matter. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	dragonfangirl 2006-05-14 06:04 am UTC (link)
	I can sympathize with your game bitterness, but you're still wrong. (Reply to this)(Parent)

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