Log In

Home
    - Create Journal
    - Update
    - Download

LiveJournal
    - News
    - Paid Accounts
    - Contributors

Customize
    - Customize Journal
    - Create Style
    - Edit Style

Find Users
    - Random!
    - By Region
    - By Interest
    - Search

Edit ...
    - Personal Info &
      Settings
    - Your Friends
    - Old Entries
    - Your Pictures
    - Your Password

Developer Area

Need Help?
    - Lost Password?
    - Freq. Asked
      Questions
    - Support Area



Bonanza Jellybean ([info]b_jellybean) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2006-05-13 12:33:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
And here I thought the Sims needed a hack to wank....
The Sims2 BBS has always seemed to me to be just about as wanky as could be expected for a message board about a computer game. However, one post in particular caught my eye and is such a spectacular example of Missing The Point that I thought I would share it.

ShakeMV makes a post called "Pleasantview Racism." In it, he shares a storyline from his game where one character hates aliens and starts a campaign to eliminate them from the neighborhood. The only problem is that he fails to ever say "This is a storyline from my game!" though, imo, it's pretty clear that it's not programmed game behavior.



The first few comments are fairly sane-- some tell the poster s/he has a way with words, others ask whether the post is a story-- but then Jack4740 comes along to say This is just stupid its only a game there is no such thing as aliens(sort of),people dont face these problems in real life anymore even if you black or white or whatever you want to be.

People poke at Jack for awhile, though more seem to take offense to "there are no aliens" rather than "there is no racism," but then Shake comes back to say Did you read the whole post? (snip) Thanks for sharing opinions, even "dumb" ones. This will come back to haunt him.

Jack responds, Well to be honest this game is just like real life except it has a couple of Stupid things in it,we shouldnt be thinking or posting about Rascism in the game.

Cabelle1863 admits that s/he just skimmed the post but says Morals are what we apply to the game and it would have been the better choice for you to load stories about your Pleasantview. I'm not all that into threads that seem directed to start an argument. But now that I see you moved Dina, Nina and Don to Strangetown I'll take a nanosecond to grieve for your Strangetown. Because at some point your Strangetown will now become a BFBVFOS. But I won't try to explain why because I'm sure I'm too "dumb" to explain it correctly. Shake explains him, as does Cabelle, and they have a very wank-free resolution. Damn.

However, Jack is still REALLY mad about the accusations of Pleasantview racism- This game has nothing to do with racism,and if anyone thinks this then more people will think this and people will complain and then this game will be forced to change.I dont wont this game to change and so dont many aother Simmers on this website, its fun having all these really cool creatures.So lets dont specalate Things that are way over proportian. I really want to know what is up with his capitalization.

There is more peacefulness, except for Jack apparently going guestbook flaming, until Thsms204 has the VERY BEST comment of the thread- Racism? I suggest changing the title to prejudism.

(warning now- the next two comments I have posted in their entirety as they are so crazy it amuses me. Your tl;dr may vary)

Then BD5141 gets hir moral high hat on- Well I for one put a flag on this, we have enough problems in our world without someone starting trouble from such a post! I play this game & come to the BBS to escape such things! To me it appears that you want to start trouble! This game is to be played for fun, there is so many stories that you could have gone with! Good grief! When people makes statements and comments as this all it does is add fuel to the fire, just like that attorney Thompson in California trying to ban teens & kids from being able to play the game. This also makes if difficult for creators such as Will Wright & the company Maxis. Game designers & companies already have enough to worry about when making a game without people trying to bring racism into the game! It's comments like this that get those attorneys like Thompson going! I'm not sure of how old you are but if you were a teen would you like this attorney keeping you from being able to play the game? Anyone that reads this post should put a flag on this! This is way out of line!
And yes I read the whole story! Along with all the posts!
I honestly cannot tell if this is tongue in cheek or not.

Finally, Greta248 would like to live in her own Sim world of puppies and flowers- I think its a shame to call any of this racism. I did like your story, but I'm not sure its suitable for sharing. After all racism is really a political issue and its best to keep this out of the BBS as everyone will have different views and misunderstandings can arise so easily.I have used this diversity in a positive way (when not going along with my story - which is so old that even women hardly exist so I have to keep inventing them) by having all different families. My Childlover family consisted of a very dark man and a very fair lady. I made them have and adopt as many children as possible. It was always exciting at the birth, not only what sex will it be, but what colour. It adds extra spice. We could do with even more nationalities, like Chinese style skin and more different hairstyles. I would like to see some new clothing in the game like saris etc.

I have always found the Sims themselves very tolerant. I have never had any problem with different races not being attracted to each other. I haven't managed to get my first alien yet, but the only Sim abducted was very pleased about it. I also love the way the go shopping in their pyjamas or greet a visitor in their nightie and no one seems to even notice. Its one of their many charms. And aliens could exist statistically it is much more likely that they do, but they could be living in a different time. They probably wouldn't be humanoid or green though.



To sum up- The Sims are not racist. Even if they are, we shouldn't talk about it. The end. Now I am off to make some Sims gay marriages and not post about them on the BBS.

(I have previewed this post, since the last time I posted it looked awful, and the html does not appear to be broken. If it is, I apologize and will fix asap.)


(Post a new comment)


[info]seraphtrevs
2006-05-13 07:13 pm UTC (link)
we shouldnt be thinking or posting about Rascism in the game.

Jesus H. Christ, why can't wankers ever spell racism? GOD.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-13 09:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - dracothelizard, 2006-05-13 11:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mmanurere, 2006-05-14 01:39 am UTC

[info]cornedbee
2006-05-13 07:30 pm UTC (link)
I'm absolutely not into the Sims, but let's just see if I get this right.

The Sims is a game where you can try to simulate Real Life. Basically, you have a group of characters that interact, right?

Now one player decides that one of his characters really doesn't like aliens (which apparently feature in the game) and wants to persecute them. The player thinks this is amusing/interesting/whatever.

Did I get this right so far?

Well, there's nothing wrong with that. If you want to simulate Real Life, then why not have a racist there?

Then said player goes on to post this storyline he's come up with, and perhaps how the game progressed (I didn't actually read the post), on a board about the game, in a section that is probably meant for such stories.

And someone is unhappy about this? What did the player do that is so terrible that it can't be ignored?

I don't get it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]greenling, 2006-05-13 09:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-13 09:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2006-05-13 10:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - dracothelizard, 2006-05-13 11:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-05-13 11:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 02:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2006-05-16 05:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-16 02:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2006-05-14 12:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-05-14 12:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 02:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]felinephoenix, 2006-05-14 04:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lindentreeisle, 2006-05-14 04:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-13 09:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]judyhazeleyes, 2006-05-13 10:02 pm UTC

[info]gal_montag
2006-05-13 07:32 pm UTC (link)
people dont face these problems in real life anymore

I mean, yeah, pretty much. Except, like, not at all.

Why do people continue to assert things like this?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]alecto, 2006-05-13 07:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - redwarrior, 2006-05-13 11:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]heddychaa, 2006-05-13 07:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-05-13 08:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-05-13 08:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-05-13 09:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-05-13 11:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jaseroque, 2006-05-14 11:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-05-14 04:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2006-05-15 02:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-05-15 02:20 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dreamoflife02, 2006-05-13 08:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-05-18 03:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-13 09:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-05-13 09:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 02:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-05-14 03:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladybirdsleeps, 2006-05-15 02:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gal_montag, 2006-05-15 02:22 am UTC

[info]fernwithy
2006-05-13 07:42 pm UTC (link)
[OT]
so dont many aother Simmers

Aw, now I'm feeling kind of nostalgic. Either that, or or my lunch isn't sitting right. "So don't many other..."! I haven't heard that particular grammatical nightmare since I left my hometown.
[/OT]

I don't know much about the Sims, honestly. But it seems to me that one could be a racist and play the game, without it reflecting on the game, which just, you know, doesn't stop it. It's asking a bit much of a video game to prevent racism.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-13 09:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fernwithy, 2006-05-13 09:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jadelennox, 2006-05-13 09:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fernwithy, 2006-05-13 09:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2006-05-13 10:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]squib, 2006-05-14 05:33 am UTC

[info]ladysphinx
2006-05-13 07:51 pm UTC (link)
::makes obligatory "everyone's a little bit racist" reference::


::goes off to queue up "Avenue Q"::

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-13 08:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladysphinx, 2006-05-13 08:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-13 08:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]freezer, 2006-05-13 08:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ladysphinx, 2006-05-13 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]freezer, 2006-05-13 09:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bubosquared, 2006-05-13 11:16 pm UTC

[info]nlb_muffin
2006-05-13 08:03 pm UTC (link)
Well to be honest this game is just like real life except it has a couple of Stupid things in it,we shouldnt be thinking or posting about Rascism in the game.At the end of the day what would you feel like if your wife or husband or whatever got killed or abducted?

So, according to this person, racism doesn't happen in real life. So it shouldn't be in the game. But people getting killed shouldn't be in the game either, so it.. doesn't happen... in real... life?

I'm going to stop now before my brain explodes from this thought process.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-13 09:10 pm UTC

[info]dreamoflife02
2006-05-13 08:04 pm UTC (link)
Ah, now I understand. There is no racism in real life, so clearly there should be no racism in the game. I'm off to play TS2 now, armed with my knowledge that everything in the game exactly mirrors real life! (Can someone tell me if zombiism is genetic? I have an alien vampire pregnant with the child of his zombified gay lover, and I'm wondering how it'll turn out.)

In all seriousness, though, no racism in real life? This guy's glasses are so rose-tinted they're completely opaque.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]sorchar, 2006-05-13 09:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-13 09:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-14 07:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 06:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]zarla, 2006-05-14 02:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lotus79, 2006-05-14 05:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lotus79, 2006-05-14 04:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-15 09:08 am UTC

[info]mochibuni
2006-05-13 08:08 pm UTC (link)
Now I'm eager to post the Sims 2 wankage concerning having pets in the new expansion.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-13 09:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2006-05-13 11:01 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2006-05-14 12:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2006-05-14 02:09 am UTC
No one's objected to this yet?
(Anonymous)
2006-05-13 08:11 pm UTC (link)
</i>After all racism is really a political issue and its best to keep this out of the BBS as everyone will have different views</i>

WHAT??

No. No. Nonononono. Racism is not a political issue. Racism is a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT ISSUE, and there's only ONE acceptable view of it: that it is WRONG.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: No one's objected to this yet? - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-13 09:04 pm UTC
Re: No one's objected to this yet? - [info]bubosquared, 2006-05-13 11:20 pm UTC
Re: No one's objected to this yet? - [info]brown_betty, 2006-05-14 02:08 am UTC
Re: No one's objected to this yet? - (Anonymous), 2006-05-15 09:20 am UTC

[info]lurker32
2006-05-13 08:16 pm UTC (link)
I swear the actual Sims are smarter than most of the players.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-13 09:13 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-19 05:01 am UTC

[info]puipui
2006-05-13 08:19 pm UTC (link)
I have always found the Sims themselves very tolerant. I have never had any problem with different races not being attracted to each other.

Well, yeah, because the look of your sim doesn't affect gameplay. If it did, then that would be racist.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-13 09:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]scootermcgaffin, 2006-05-13 09:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-14 01:55 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-15 07:05 am UTC

[info]ciaan
2006-05-13 09:16 pm UTC (link)
Okay, I just have one important question about the Sims that I haven't had anyone answer yet.

Can you make them have group sex?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mireille, 2006-05-13 09:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]judyhazeleyes, 2006-05-13 10:04 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]kittikattie, 2006-05-13 11:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2006-05-14 12:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ciaan, 2006-05-14 02:03 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-14 05:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eljuno, 2006-05-14 05:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nutshellibrary, 2006-05-14 05:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mireille, 2006-05-14 05:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mockaholic, 2006-05-14 06:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mockaholic, 2006-05-14 06:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lindentreeisle, 2006-05-14 04:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 06:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2006-05-15 06:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nutshellibrary, 2006-05-14 08:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-14 09:10 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-13 09:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - dracothelizard, 2006-05-13 11:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]felinephoenix, 2006-05-14 04:04 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-05-13 09:40 pm UTC (link)
...Why is it that suddenly, everyone thinks that "prejudism" is a real word?

- ladymouse

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 03:01 am UTC

[info]ari_
2006-05-13 09:59 pm UTC (link)
you read the BBS? O.o

poor you.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 03:02 am UTC

[info]gabhriel
2006-05-13 11:02 pm UTC (link)
And here I was naive enough to think that TS2 was pretty much unwankable.

Oh, how wrong I was.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 03:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]v_digitalwytch, 2006-05-14 05:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]froda_baggins, 2006-05-20 08:13 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]gabhriel, 2006-05-23 10:02 pm UTC

redwarrior
2006-05-13 11:39 pm UTC (link)
My Childlover family consisted of a very dark man and a very fair lady. I made them have and adopt as many children as possible. It was always exciting at the birth, not only what sex will it be, but what colour. It adds extra spice. We could do with even more nationalities, like Chinese style skin and more different hairstyles. I would like to see some new clothing in the game like saris etc.

Helloooo racial fetishism.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2006-05-14 12:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lindentreeisle, 2006-05-14 04:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chibikaijuu, 2006-05-15 06:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-15 02:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]popmuzik, 2006-05-15 04:31 pm UTC

[info]ironymaiden
2006-05-14 12:53 am UTC (link)
This is why I avoid the BBS like the plague. I post at MATY (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php) and I've started posting at Sims2 Community (http://www.sims2community.com/).

The BBS is full of stupid and sheeple.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 03:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mockaholic, 2006-05-14 09:10 am UTC

[info]sprungtodrown
2006-05-14 02:16 am UTC (link)
This is just stupid its only a game there is no such thing as aliens(sort of),people dont face these problems in real life anymore even if you black or white or whatever you want to be.

Wow, I'm so glad I read this, I had no idea racism had been completely eradicated.

Go you world, live together as one.

(By the way that "whatever you want to be" thing really confused me. Can people, like, change race now? I know it worked for Michael Jackson, but I didn't know it was available to mass audiences.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 03:05 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sprungtodrown, 2006-05-14 09:49 am UTC

[info]felinephoenix
2006-05-14 04:06 am UTC (link)
even if you black or white or whatever you want to be

Wait, I can CHOOSE my skin color? Can I be rainbow? Rainbows are pretty. Or perhaps a lovely shade of blue, I've always looked good in blue.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]kittikattie, 2006-05-14 04:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2006-05-14 05:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]squib, 2006-05-14 05:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nicolae, 2006-05-16 04:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 06:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]fuzzybluelogic, 2006-05-15 02:41 am UTC

[info]frau_eva
2006-05-14 05:48 am UTC (link)
Wow, this is really weird. I just created a Princess Clara-esque character legacy in the Sims and was trying out how exactly a racist would work in the Sims. Like, a day ago. It feels like I've somehow created wank through the mystical powers of my computer. O_o If they think this is bad, sweet Christ, I'll hold off on posting my Legacy story ever, ever.

FYI, SO much harder to get a good match for your character when they have to be compatible, not ugly, and allowed only ONE skin color. Sims, if anything, would illustrate how much racism sucks by the many, many good love matches that I had to make her enemies with. *grumble*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 06:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frau_eva, 2006-05-14 07:52 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-14 12:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 06:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dreamoflife02, 2006-05-14 07:27 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_, 2006-05-14 02:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]frau_eva, 2006-05-15 12:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_, 2006-05-15 03:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-15 05:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_, 2006-05-15 05:39 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-05-14 08:56 am UTC (link)
BFBVFOS

...explain pls.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mockaholic, 2006-05-14 09:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]doyle, 2006-05-14 09:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_, 2006-05-14 02:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-16 02:27 am UTC

[info]sproutling
2006-05-14 01:25 pm UTC (link)
I only ever read the BBS if I can't figure out why something happened/how to make something happen.

But then, my HP sims are so bloody inbred now they really are OBHWF. Sim aliens - making your families related in ways you never thought possible.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]ari_, 2006-05-14 02:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sproutling, 2006-05-14 03:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]ari_, 2006-05-14 03:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sproutling, 2006-05-14 04:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]v_digitalwytch, 2006-05-14 05:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sepiamagpie, 2006-05-14 08:56 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sproutling, 2006-05-14 08:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]massromantic, 2006-05-17 06:21 am UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-14 05:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]sproutling, 2006-05-14 08:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2006-05-14 10:59 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 06:37 pm UTC
(no subject) - notmonkey, 2006-05-16 04:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]massromantic, 2006-05-17 06:23 am UTC
(no subject) - notmonkey, 2006-05-20 03:49 am UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-05-14 05:01 pm UTC (link)
I just wanted to say that I love your Wally icon =D

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-14 06:40 pm UTC
Tutorials
ladygoddess
2006-05-17 07:59 am UTC (link)
I bought the guidebook for TS2, but is there any good tutorials out there on how to mod the sims or make meshes? I've heard of Milkshape and have done some work in Maya.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Tutorials - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-19 04:36 am UTC
Re: Tutorials - ladygoddess, 2006-05-19 04:42 am UTC
Re: Tutorials - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-19 06:06 pm UTC

(Anonymous)
2006-05-18 05:32 pm UTC (link)
Are you sure it's not programmed game behavior? Because the second case I've heard of someone taking a set against the aliens.
Granted, in the first, it resulted from the aliens neglecting to feed to kidnappee, and his thus starving to death upon his return.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]b_jellybean, 2006-05-18 09:53 pm UTC

 
   
Privacy Policy - COPPA
Legal Disclaimer - Site Map