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Aurora Derall ([info]aruru) wrote in [info]fandom_wank,
@ 2003-07-12 05:00:00


Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:GRRRRRR

Okay, that's it, I'm turning myself and everyone on the MSR in (YET AGAIN).
I'm a bit undecided on whether this should actually go on [info]fandom_rant instead, but... oh god, Mary Sue Report, will you EVER lay off on the wank? You're going to make yourself blind at this rate!

See folks, today, we had a new member come in and introduce herself. Nothing out of the ordinary, right? Sure, until we hit this line:

Anyways, that's it for now, but I promise I'm going to find a fic worthy of a flamefest.

For the last time, folks: THAT IS NOT WHAT THE MSR WAS EVER - OR SHOULD EVER - BE ABOUT.

Anyway, at first, people pat her on the back and whatever, while I try to hold my tongue until I can come up with a way of saying my two cents in the matter without it being more bitchtastic than it needs to be. That is, until [info]kannaophelia has the common sense to call her out on that statement, and explain how this is all supposed to be for FUN. People come in to back her up, including an excellent point brought up by our own [info]dawnswalker about how the community will wind up getting ToS'ed if it stops being about the humor and seriously turns into what it's been acting like lately (There IS a difference between witty, snarky humor and just being plain mean, people.), and someone else pointing out the rather unusual spike in angry authors coming in during the past month or so (*adjusts that person's super-sekrit disguise over here on JF* :D), and me being progressively more and more bitchtastically wanky in the followup posts where I agree with them all and add my own two cents.

Some people, thankfully, get the point.

However, some random lurker decides to come in and accuse those of us complaining that "Well, it's all your own fault if you never have brought up the subject before," despite the fact that I think it's pretty safe to say that most of the people who've complained thus far on that thread HAVE ALREADY BEEN DOING THIS FOR AGES, JUST ABOUT EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY NOTICE SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN*. So of course, I kindly told the person to have a nice cup of SHUT THE FUCK UP please not generalize like that, thus sealing my already obvious wankiness in the whole thing.

This is still quite fresh off the grill, so there will likely be further replies on the subject to keep an eye out for.

Seriously, though: I just feel really bad for [info]redpanda having to deal with this crap. I'm starting to think that she may need to keep one of her JournalFen codes freed up, because at the rate things are going, there's a good chance that the MSR will eventually get ToS'ed by LJ for all this bullshit**. *sigh*



*[I can certainly attest for myself, who's come in to call out people from everything from rallying people to go leave crits for an author, to people criticizing bad grammar when theirs is equally atrocious or WORSE than the author's, to people who've bitched about the MSes' making characters all OOC and then turning around to say that OMG MY HIGHLY IMPROBABLE NON-CANON COUPLE IDEA IS ALWAYS SOOOO MUCH BETTAH THAN ANY STINKY SUE, NO MATTER HOW BADLY WRITTEN!!!!!1!!11; all during the three or four months I've been a member. Just look around in the archives, and you'll find me pop up to pontificate here and there.]

**[And I think everyone on F_W can pretty much agree on THAT one, given the past history this comm had with LJ Abuse...]



(Post a new comment)


snowball
2003-07-12 12:23 pm UTC (link)
I look over the MSR myself on a pretty regular basis (I don't have a LiveJournal, so I'm not a member), and I definitely know what you mean about people getting more aggressive. Being amused by Mary Sues? Good for you, they're amusing. Being a little frightened by them? Why not, sometimes MS authors dream up whole new levels of O_o.

But the whole attitude that the writers are horrible people and that we have some kinda fucking duty to stamp them out? Er, no thanks. That just makes me glad all my old Star Wars fanfiction is far, far away from any internet connections. Young authors don't need outright vitriol like that.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]rann
2003-07-14 07:43 am UTC (link)
Yeah... some of my early fanfiction was absolute blatant MS stuff and badly-written to boot... but geez, I was all of fifteen and my only exposure to fanfiction had been a couple of fair fics and a series of Mary Sue stuff that was lauded by the forum it was on. I'd hate to see what they'd make of me for that today...

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]phosfate
2003-07-14 05:50 pm UTC (link)
But the whole attitude that the writers are horrible people and that we have some kinda fucking duty to stamp them out? Er, no thanks.

Word, Dan-O. "What can I do to stop my friend from writing this story?" Uh...the hell?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]zannechaos
2003-07-12 12:26 pm UTC (link)
I just feel really bad for redpanda having to deal with this crap. I'm starting to think that she may need to keep one of her JournalFen codes freed up

I've already thought about that myself. If she's running low on codes, I've already been keeping one handy just in case worst comes to worst.

Hey, [info]redpanda, if you ever want/need to move MSR, and need a code, you know my e-mail. I'd be happy to donate one to such a worthy cause ^_^

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]eljuno
2003-07-13 03:38 am UTC (link)
At last count I have 15 extra codes (I have neither friends nor a life) so I figure if anyone needs one they can just come and bug me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]kannaophelia
2003-07-12 12:51 pm UTC (link)
~wide eyes~ You know, I was just wondering over chat last night why I'd never been fandom_wanked... Serendipitous, much?

But you were too nice. I'm fully aware that I can come across as terribly self-righteous, and that I'm not guilt-free - I've been bitchy there, too. And that I threatened to leave - not in hopes of being begged to stay, I solemnly swear - and then didn't.

~humbly admits to wank~

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]schoenschoen
2003-07-12 01:02 pm UTC (link)
Well, I didn't take it as much of a 'threat', per se, as it was a valid complaint against an ailing community. If it's pissing you off, you shouldn't stay. And considering that you didn't do it *on* the community, but in your own LJ, makes it even less wanky.

Honestly, though? If you hadn't put anything in your LJ, I never would have noticed this. I read 'Hi I'm a newbie!' posts about like I read the 'Is my OC a Mary Sue?!?' posts. I've been ignoring the comm for the past few months, but since you started complaining, I've felt more obligated to actually *try* to make posts and comments and to be witty about them.

The only way to solve this problem is for people to be more proactive in the atmosphere they create while posting.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]aruru
2003-07-12 01:15 pm UTC (link)
Oh, I've been bitchy myself too - namely, when the authors came in and acted in a way that I thought earned them my bitchery. But that's just it - I try to leave the author bashing to a minimum until I feel they actually earned that, and in my book, they earn it not because of what they wrote, but how they behaved as a person.

Anyway, as for the thread - dude, I thought it was YOU who was being nice. I definitely totally wanked, while you were more like the equivalent of giving a light flick to the clitoris, or something. Which is why I made it a point that I was mostly turning myself in this time around. ^_^;;

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]kannaophelia
2003-07-12 01:19 pm UTC (link)
while you were more like the equivalent of giving a light flick to the clitoris, or something.

Heh, thank you. That's how I felt, only the other way around. :)

Sometimes I think F_W should just have permanent links to the MSR and Fiction Alley... Get your wank here, folks.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]amasaglajax, 2003-07-13 03:19 am UTC

[info]schoenschoen
2003-07-12 01:10 pm UTC (link)
to people who've bitched about the MSes' making characters all OOC and then turning around to say that OMG MY HIGHLY IMPROBABLE NON-CANON COUPLE IDEA IS ALWAYS SOOOO MUCH BETTAH THAN ANY STINKY SUE, NO MATTER HOW BADLY WRITTEN!!!!!1!!11

Yes, yes, and yes again! >_<

I find it really discouraging that MSR has been overrun by teenie slashers who think they're soooooo far above the Sues. The "Everytime you write a Slash fic, a Mary Sue dies!" icon has nagged at me since I first saw it, but I never wanted to offend the girl that it belonged to. That logic is flawed. No offense to teenie slashers, you understand - everyone needs their fun - but to put one group of bad ficcers on a pedestal, while denouncing the evils of the other is the *height* of hypocrisy... and wank.

Although I'm surprised that people took offense to the 'flame fest' part and no one else found the girl's introductory remarks about hating Sues and mocking them relentlessly in RPs to be offensive. She sounds like a school yard bully. I mean, they deserve a little ridicule, but *chasing* them down to mock them? That's just going to far.
I prefer to point and laugh and enjoy my popcorn.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]aruru
2003-07-12 01:35 pm UTC (link)
...that's why I thought it was funny when you turned in that gay Stu and said "Sorry guys, but every time you kill a Sue with slash, one of THESE is born in its stead." ^_^;;

It's not just the slashers, though - I've seen a number of both non-canon het AND totally canon fans take a similar attitude in posts. As someone who enjoys canon and non-canon het/yaoi/yuri, I just find ALL of them aggravating.

(I did admittedly find the icon kind of funny, despite how presumtuous the statement is, though. ^^; Actually, I think I was laughing BECAUSE of the fact that it's so presumptuous, which I don't think was exactly what the creator had in mind, but... ^^;)

As for the "hating Sues" part, I didn't care much about that, because a lot of people say "hate" when they actually mean "don't like/enjoy." The whole "relentlessly picking on them on RP" is somewhat questionable, but I also recall how some of my D&D/White Wolf/other tabletop RPG-loving friends often found ways of poking at people who turned in annoying "munchkin" characters in their games (first lightly, to see if the person would get the hint, then the storyteller[s] would just turn into total bitches if they proved to be entirely impossible to reason with), so... *shrugs* It was only after that last line I quoted when it became REALLY apparent to me exactly how much the person had missed the point of MSR, and my feathers got ruffled.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]schoenschoen
2003-07-12 01:41 pm UTC (link)
Mmm, I didn't like her assumption that we were a community for 'bashing' Sues. Bashing, to me, connotates a whole other level of mocking - it leaves 'fun' territory and enters 'nasty, mean, and snarky' land.

And, yeah - the "Slasher" icon is amusing, in its own way, but mostly for the reasons you pointed out. Amusing, but somewhat frustrating at the same time. ^^

And I'm amazed my good karma's held out for as long as it has after turning Haruo in, though. XD I suspect it'll come back around to nail me in the arse sometime soon. Always does. Besides, did we not learn anything from the whole "Wank, like salmon, will always return to the river of its birth, no matter how strong the river of TRUE LOVE flows" speech?
Guess not. XD

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2003-07-12 08:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-07-12 09:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2003-07-13 03:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-07-13 05:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-07-13 05:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]schoenschoen, 2003-07-13 06:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-07-13 08:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]harukami, 2003-07-14 06:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2003-07-13 05:33 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]aruru, 2003-07-13 05:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2003-07-13 05:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kannaophelia, 2003-07-13 09:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2003-07-14 05:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]puipui, 2003-07-14 05:17 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kannaophelia, 2003-07-14 08:30 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kannaophelia, 2003-07-15 08:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]schoenschoen, 2003-07-13 06:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iczer6, 2003-07-13 06:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]moonjaguar, 2003-07-13 06:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-14 10:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]unoriginality, 2003-07-18 05:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kookaburra, 2003-07-18 10:50 am UTC
Re: - [info]unoriginality, 2003-07-18 12:47 pm UTC

[info]anriko
2003-07-14 09:14 am UTC (link)
(I did admittedly find the icon kind of funny, despite how presumtuous the statement is, though. ^^; Actually, I think I was laughing BECAUSE of the fact that it's so presumptuous, which I don't think was exactly what the creator had in mind, but... ^^;)

No, that wasn't my original intent at all. THat thing (and its brother, which I have somewhere around here) were merely my response to the bad Sues -- that and the end result of a sugar high. I think if I'd taken a few steps back and thought about it without the sugar's help, it wouldn't have turned out like that. :P

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]virago
2003-07-12 02:59 pm UTC (link)
The lasting effect of that thread on me is to make me want to find a comm on bad shipper fics. There has to be one.

What would be fun as well is a Bad Slashfic comm that isn't anti-slash overall.

*sigh*

The MSR has long been shoved to its own filter of my friends list, for noise, the INGRAINED REFUSAL TO LJ-CUT < /wanky > and overall notbeingallthatconsistentlyfunanymore.

I'm kind of a newcomer myself, so I'm not going to whine about how the newbies have ruined it all, but eh. If you can't make an "AGH MY EYES" post in an entertaining way, don't post it. Unvarnished "ew this fic sucks" isn't very fun to read.

Okay, that's all for my complaining.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]msmanna
2003-07-12 06:36 pm UTC (link)

What would be fun as well is a Bad Slashfic comm that isn't anti-slash overall.

The problem with all badfic efforts is the amount of time required to properly review each fic. Without proper reviews that people spend time over, you get the Godawful message boards -- a lot of people saying 'this is crap', and a lot more agreeing with them, which gets old quite quickly. Maybe it would work better on LJ than on a webpage. However, most badfic sites don't last long, as the reviewers lowes interest. And who can blame them? I certainly wouldn't want to read the fic to review it.

Plus, there then arrive hoards of people whining that it's *mean* to suggest that someone may not be the world greatest writer and may, in fact, suck hard enough to drag the Titanic backwards through a straw. Because that might discourage them from writing more.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]virago, 2003-07-13 05:19 am UTC

[info]sorchar
2003-07-12 01:41 pm UTC (link)
Anyone calling herself "punkrockprincess" in that horrible mix of capitals and lowercase is, by default, wankeriffic.

And yes, I realize that my screen name is pretty damn wanky too. But I promise, it's supposed to be pseudo-Goth wanky in the extreme. That's why I picked it. :)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]aruru
2003-07-12 01:52 pm UTC (link)
Well, I wrote my AIM SN in Japanese (because at the time, the character limit was much smaller, so I couldn't fit "Aurora Derall" in there, and "Aurora" and any decent variants I could think of were obviously taken already), so I'm just as much of a fantastic wanker there, just of the brainless otaku sort. ;)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]ruaki
2003-07-14 12:23 am UTC (link)
Always wondered what that SN stood for. ^^;

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]moonjaguar
2003-07-13 06:41 am UTC (link)
Hell, I came up with my user name by throwing a bunch of random words in the Name Spinner at dotster.com back in '00 because I couldn't decide on a domain name. How wankful is that? And I didn't know about the Mayan king Moon Jaguar until recently.

When I was active in the Xena fandom, my username was Herculena. Ouch, ouch and ouch. But I thought hey, I was combining both Hercules and Xena, how clever of me, as well as using the name for an original fic character that I came up with in '82 when I accidentally mispronounced "Herculaneum".

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]unoriginality
2003-07-18 05:12 am UTC (link)
Mine was a blatant rip off from Uncreativity's screen name. The joke was that I was too unoriginal to come up with anything better. XD I have yet to determine if that's tongue-in-cheek or just wanky.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]kristenk2
2003-07-12 03:24 pm UTC (link)
Me, I'm just amused that in wider fandom, MSR stands for something entirely different than MulderScullyRomance. Although, in a lot of cases, the poor characters have become Mary Sues. *g*

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]pradaloz
2003-07-12 05:57 pm UTC (link)
I swear to God, every time I see "MSR" I think Mulder/Scully Romance. Every time...even when I know it's referring to the LJ community.

I think XF has scarred me for life.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]rikoshi
2003-07-12 07:06 pm UTC (link)
I know the feeling. As a furry, there are plenty of normal, everyday words that take on entirely new connotations in light of my fandom.

Sometimes it makes me cry on the inside...

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]chimara
2003-07-13 08:49 am UTC (link)
AND NOW YOU'RE DOING IT TO ME. o.O

And I was never even in XF fandom. Curse all acronyms anyway.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]rann
2003-07-14 07:53 am UTC (link)
I thought I was the only one! ;.;

(Reply to this)(Parent)


 
   
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