kristenk2
2003-07-12 03:02 pm UTC (link)

BWA! I swear, there should be a ban on any slash threads at the Haven; they ALWAYS proceed in the same way as they did here. It's like asking first-graders to explain quantum physics; the concept is just a leetle bit over their heads. :)

I am especially fond of the notion that Mulder or Scully slash is, by definition, "mischaracterization", especially since the statement is made by people who think happily-ever-after, Fox-n-Dana, schmooptastic MSR is good characterization. Was I watching a different show than these people?

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	eilan 2003-07-12 03:11 pm UTC (link)
	You and me both... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rhoddlet 2003-07-13 10:30 pm UTC (link)
	Yes, you were watching the version of the show where Krycek didn't kiss Mulder after a terribly homoerotic wrestling match on the floor of Mulder's apartment. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ruaki 2003-07-13 10:36 pm UTC (link)
	Damn! You beat me to it! >D (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

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rhoddlet, 2003-07-13 10:38 pm UTC

(no subject) -

kristenk2, 2003-07-14 03:07 pm UTC

	rann 2003-07-14 07:23 am UTC (link)
	Living happily in their white picket fence, growing tomatoes, and shouting "Oh gods!" whenever they get startled. (Reply to this)(Parent)

facewithamask
2003-07-12 03:27 pm UTC (link)

You know, what kills me that I listen to all this shit from these people over there (I've read the whole thread now and boy oh golly am I impressed with the frontal lobes of some of those folks, especially stormlantern) is that I actually AM gay and the generalizations they're making? Holy shit! If I made those same generalizations about heterosexuals they would spontaneously combust. I can't believe how universally misunderstood and how narrowly defined feelings for the same sex are. It boggles me. I would so love to go over there and just come flying out of the closet and say: "And now...the Queer Perspective..."

I'll keep watching it. I might do it yet. Not that it will make any difference whatsoever, but...it's tempting.

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kristenk2
2003-07-12 03:42 pm UTC (link)

I can't believe how universally misunderstood and how narrowly defined feelings for the same sex are.

But you have to understand, according to them, that's not the point. The point is that because we never saw Mulder actually fuck Krycek, he cannot be gay. Of course, we never saw him do Scully either, but to them, that's not necessary; their UST was "obvious", while the UST between Krycek and Mulder is merely a figment of the writer's overactive imaginations.

It's a no-win argument, sadly. Because later seasons did push Mulder and Scully into a relationship, the belief at the Haven is that it retro-actively "proves" all the earlier M/S UST and "disproves" the previous slashy UST. And as you can see from the thread, no amount of pointing that out makes an impact.

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Clarifying, because I am daft

kristenk2
2003-07-12 03:51 pm UTC (link)

But you have to understand, according to them, that's not the point.

What I meant to say was, personal experience is not the point; as a couple of the knuckleheads pointed out when others brought up their personal experiences, they are talking about "characters", not "real people". Therefore, what happens in real life is not applicable, because these characters are make-believe and not beholden to feelings and outlooks that humans hold.

Which of course, if people want them to be realistic (which they claim they do), then how that is supposed to happen if writers aren't supposed to inject *actual* humanity into them...the whole Catch-22 makes my head hurt. Like I said, it's a no-win situation.

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rikoshi
2003-07-12 07:02 pm UTC (link)

I wrote a series of Slayers parody fiction, which lampooned a few infamous yaoi pairings from that fandom. I got a few flames for people yelling at me for "bashing yaoi" and not being "open-minded" enough and yadda yadda yadda wank wank wank.

It takes a lot of effort for MY part to not respond to them with, "I'm a gay male. As in, I get to have non-vicarious gay sex that's way better than what 99.44% of your rabid fangirls like to think happens between two men. Have a nice day."

But that would make me mean.

(As a side-note, I almost mistyped 'fandom' as 'fandoom' up there... then I realized how apropos it really is...)

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aruru
2003-07-13 06:06 am UTC (link)

But that would make me mean.

But really, REALLY funny, and hopefully one day you'll be enough of a bitch to go for it. XD

And you know what's the BEST part? The fact that you're actually NOT the first person to pull something silly like the whole Valgaav x Jiras gag. I almost makes me want to scan some of the "Dragon Attack" series of Val-parody doujinshi by Blue Magic, just so I can show 'em to these wankers - see, in these things, pretty much everyone and their grandmother wants Val's pretty boy ass. Even DARKSTAR (AND he's in his demon form, too - only pseudo-chibified!).

(As a side-note, I almost mistyped 'fandom' as 'fandoom' up there... then I realized how apropos it really is...)

*snickers*

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rann, 2003-07-14 07:26 am UTC

	nostalgia 2003-07-13 04:12 am UTC (link)
	What the fuck is that thing in your icon?! It's scary... but cute... but scary... but... hides from the Thing (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	aruru 2003-07-13 05:55 am UTC (link)
	singe has it too. Here's your answer. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	snacky 2003-07-12 06:09 pm UTC (link)
	Touchstone's a BNF? Gosh, I'm out of the loop. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	deslea 2003-07-12 07:16 pm UTC (link)
	I don't think so. I suspect Eilan might be thinking of Cate, who runs the UK Touchstone website, but they're different people. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	eilan 2003-07-13 09:02 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, I was. And I was worried it was the same since I love her artwork. But now I know better and I am relieved. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rann 2003-07-14 07:27 am UTC (link)
	Okay, I've been wondering this for awhile, but was mostly hoping that someone would finally take Zanne's glossary idea and I wouldn't have to ask... What's a "BNF"? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	eilan 2003-07-14 10:09 am UTC (link)
	A Big Name Fan, someone who has been around for a whoile, is well-known and most times things s/he's better than others. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Stupid question of the day... bardsong 2003-07-12 09:19 pm UTC (link)
	Why is it 'barbieshipping?' Please explain. (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Stupid question of the day...

deslea
2003-07-12 09:28 pm UTC (link)

(Copying and pasting from an email I sent last year in answer to the question "What is a barbieshipper?")

A barbieshipper is a fan of a particular ship who lives out their fandom in a particular way. In XF (where I believe the term originated), the term tends to be applied mostly to Mulder/Scully shippers, but in fact, you find them in any ship, both het and slash.

They tend to be very undiscerning in their choice of fic as long as their couple end up together. They hate with a passion any character or episode that distracted either member of the couple, in even the mildest way. There is no analysis of how or why this might have happened, no allowance for the possibility that the competing character might have merit in her or his own right. For instance, Mulder/Scully barbieshippers still bitch about TFWID, an episode five years ago in which it was suggested that Mulder was in love with someone other than Scully in a past life. They have archives and write fic about the brutal death of his ex-girlfriend, Diana. At its extremity, barbieshippers will even consider fic, etc not involving EITHER member of their couple as a threat to their couple's specialness, just because the very admission that another couple could be interesting impinges somehow on the uniqueness of their preferred one. They will say dismissive and derisive things about people who do not favour their ship or their characters.

The barbieshipper has a lot in common with BOFQ groupies, and there's a lot of crossover. Barbieshippers expect to be warned in advance if there is any hint of their heroes even looking at another person in the fic. They expect to be warned if either of them die. They expect to be warned about whether an onscreen competing love interest is even mentioned, and they will often hit delete at the first sight of that person's name, unless that character suffers some terrible, graphic fate. They consider themselves betrayed if these warnings are absent and will make a rule not to read fic by that author again. They will write terrible things about actors who played competing love interests, or target authors and webmasters who support those actors, and this is accepted behaviour in many places. I run websites for two such actors, and I have been targetted for both, in one case to the point of a personal threat.

As for why, specifically, "Barbie"? It relates to the dolls, but as far as I know there's no concrete connection. It's just the general idea that Barbieshippers are a lot like little girlies playing with their dolls and not liking it when some other little girl comes along and mucks up their view of the world.

-- Deslea, tired of reading the wank, so she's reading the wanking about the wank. Does her procrastination know no bounds?

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Just to show some range and wank about the wank about the wank...

deslea
2003-07-12 09:38 pm UTC (link)

...a friend and I have been talking lately about consumerism in fandom - how there are some, rabid consumers of fic/art/vids/whatever. They don't want quality. The concept of saving a good fic and lingering over it is foreign to them. (Seriously - I've seen someone say, "I read it FOUR TIMES, it was so good - I never read stories four times!") They're out to devour, and quality genuinely doesn't matter to them. They'll lavish praise on the mediocre writers who churn out formulaic crap because they know they can rely on those writers for their regular dose of crap. And there seems to be a lot of crossovers between rabid consumers and Barbieshippers - which is an interesting sidelight on the term.

/me ponders getting a better icon now that she's actually commenting...

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Re: Just to show some range and wank about the wank about the wank... -

deslea, 2003-07-12 09:51 pm UTC

Re: Just to show some range and wank about the wank about the wank... -

rann, 2003-07-14 07:31 am UTC